What Jesus meant in Matthew 5:48

[Neostarwcc]

Matthew 5:48 reads:

"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."


So what exactly does Jesus mean by "Be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect."? does this mean we can achieve perfection in this life? Does this mean we can be sinless and completely perfect in this life? That we should strive for perfection? No, what Jesus meant by "Be perfect" was he was telling his listeners the requirements to get into heaven. To get into heaven we have to be perfect and sinless. However, this is an impossibility in our life. You see, when we are born again and washed by the holy spirit our spirits are made sinless and enter heaven. This is not any of our doing it is the work of God. Then when our physical bodies die we are taken to be with our spirits and Jesus in heaven while our physical bodies sleep in the ground awaiting the resurrection. When Jesus returns he will then raise our bodies perfect, sinless and without blemish and we will finally be rid of the sin curse. But, to achieve sinless perfection in this life is an impossibility when Jesus said "Be perfect" he meant the afterlife. So what do you think? Discuss.

 

[com7fy8]

You see, when we are born again and washed by the holy spirit our spirits are made sinless and enter heaven.

Then I would think you would now experience spiritually that you are in Heaven.

Hebrews 12:4-11 to me means that now we need our Heavenly Father's correction, and this has us becoming "partakers of His holiness"; if each of us still needs more correction, then we are not already fully sharing with God in His own holiness, which is spiritual. But we need correction to be holy as He is holy. So, we are not yet "sinless".

So, what I offer is that when we get saved, we get started >

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

By getting saved, we have been removed from Satan's kingdom, but we have not become instantly fully perfect, spiritually. This comes with correction and maturing in His love making us more and more conformed to the image of Jesus > Galatians 4:19.

At salvation, each is joined spiritually to Jesus, but we are not spiritually perfect, right away. But our union with Jesus makes each of us more and more perfectly "one spirit with Him" . . . as the Holy Spirit keeps transforming our character.

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

So, yes, I would say we have been perfected in love, but this matures more and more. And we all still need correction. Even John, right while he was experiencing the vision of Revelation, was able to sin by falling down to worship an angel. But because he was so close to God, he was so closely and immediately corrected > Revelation 19:9-10.

So, the perfection has to do with how our character becomes in God's own love in us > Romans 5:5.

And Jesus does mean to begin now, but then God finishes later > Philippians 1:6.

So, if God is now changing us to be more and more of the nature of His own love, we do experience this now, spiritually. And part of this is how His love with almighty power "casts out fear, because fear involves torment". This is spiritual, now; Heaven's own love is doing this in us, more and more as we are perfected in this love. And we do experience this, now, spiritually.

 

[RaymondG]

To be perfect seems to mean without sin. And Yes, this is a commandment for now, as there is no repentance once in the grave. It is typical of the religious to explain away passages that they feel they cant complete, or say it is for after death.....but the passages that they can wrap their head around, they say must be done now....or else.

It would be wise to not fall into these traps.....if there is something we cant understand, ask God, who gives wisdom liberally to those who ask.

Woe to those who push to the afterlife/spirit, those things which their minds cant understand as being for now. Many things will be left undone. "My people perish for lack of knowledge."

 

[com7fy8]

To be perfect seems to mean without sin.

It depends on what you mean by without sin.

Just before Jesus says to be perfect, even as our Heavenly Father is perfect, He talks about how our Father loves any and all people. And He says, "if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" in Matthew 5:46.

So, perfect has to do not only with getting rid of sinful things and behavior, but how we become in His love.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

First of all, enter YHWH'S KINGDOM.
Then, stay in YHWH'S KINGDOM.

i.e. Simply?

Do what Jesus Says to do.

 

[RaymondG]

It depends on what you mean by without sin.

Just before Jesus says to be perfect, even as our Heavenly Father is perfect, He talks about how our Father loves any and all people. And He says, "if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" in Matthew 5:46.

So, perfect has to do not only with getting rid of sinful things and behavior, but how we become in His love.

It depends?

Are you saying that it is possible to "become in His love(your words)" and still "sin?"

 

[RDKirk]

To be perfect seems to mean without sin.
."

That's not the meaning in scripture. There are a number of places through the OT that men are described as "perfect" and even "without blemish."

There are a number of places in the NT where men are described as "perfect" and called to be "perfect."

None of them means "without sin." They all mean attaining the position or role or attitude God intends you to attain.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Matthew 5:48 reads:

"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."


So what exactly does Jesus mean by "Be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect."? does this mean we can achieve perfection in this life? Does this mean we can be sinless and completely perfect in this life? That we should strive for perfection? No, what Jesus meant by "Be perfect" was he was telling his listeners the requirements to get into heaven. To get into heaven we have to be perfect and sinless. However, this is an impossibility in our life. You see, when we are born again and washed by the holy spirit our spirits are made sinless and enter heaven. This is not any of our doing it is the work of God. Then when our physical bodies die we are taken to be with our spirits and Jesus in heaven while our physical bodies sleep in the ground awaiting the resurrection. When Jesus returns he will then raise our bodies perfect, sinless and without blemish and we will finally be rid of the sin curse. But, to achieve sinless perfection in this life is an impossibility when Jesus said "Be perfect" he meant the afterlife. So what do you think? Discuss.

From strongs,
5046 τέλειος teleios tel’-i-os

from 5056; adj; TDNT-8:67,1161; {See TDNT 785 }

AV-perfect 17, man 1, of full age 1; 19

1) brought to its end, finished
2) wanting nothing necessary to completeness
3) perfect
4) that which is perfect
4a) consummate human integrity and virtue
4b) of men
4b1) full grown, adult, of full age, mature

Since since the passage is saying be like the father, it means to mature spirtually.

 

[Tolworth John]

So what exactly does Jesus mean by "Be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect."? does this mean we can achieve perfection in this life? Does this mean we can be sinless and completely perfect in this life? That we should strive for perfection?

Always read the context, a verse out of context can as you have be twisted to mean something different.

Jesus in context is talking about Love for our enemies that we should love them just as God loves them, we are to be perfect like God is perfect in this and in all of Jesus's teachings.
It is not speaking about heaven.

 

[RaymondG]

That's not the meaning in scripture. There are a number of places through the OT that men are described as "perfect" and even "without blemish."

There are a number of places in the NT where men are described as "perfect" and called to be "perfect."

None of them means "without sin." They all mean attaining the position or role or attitude God intends you to attain.

So it is your view that The bible teaches that there are Perfect Sinners, correct? And this would also imply that Jesus was commanding us to be and Perfect Sinners, just like god is? Even if you say, we are taking on the trait, or attitude of God instead....this would still imply that we could be like God in character and still be a "sinner". So what are you saying, exactly?

 

[com7fy8]

Are you saying that it is possible to "become in His love(your words)" and still "sin?"

We are growing in His love, but we are not perfectly the way His love is. So, yes we can still sin.

And I offer how John, right while he was receiving the vision of Revelation, was able to sin by falling down to worship an angel > Revelation 19:9-10. The angel told him not to do that, because it is a sin to fall down to worship an angel.

Also, even after Peter had received the Holy Spirit, he played the hypocrite and misled other church leaders > Galatians 2:11-13. And the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God's own love > Romans 5:5. So, yes he had been in the Spirit of God's own love, but he still could sin by hypocrisy which is one of the sins the most disgusting and displeasing to Jesus.

So, it can be a clever trick to get people to commit to the idea that a child of God can not sin, at all . . . so that then the trickery can lead the person to throw out the book of Revelation and the letter to the Galatians, because they contradict how the person understands not being able to sin.

Every child of God is still being corrected > Hebrews 12:8. Our Heavenly Father's correction changes us out of what He knows is sin stuff. And with His correction we grow more in His love and the image of Jesus.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

... a number of places through the OT that men are described as "perfect" and even "without blemish."
There are a number of places in the NT where men are described as "perfect" and called to be "perfect."...

Amein and HalleluYAH ! DO GOD'S WORD. DOERS of GODS'S WORD (not man's religion/ etc) See in GOD'S WORD, what to DO. (not in man's directions)

Do what Jesus Says to do.

 

[RaymondG]

We are growing in His love, but we are not perfectly the way His love is. So, yes we can still sin.

Ok, now you are talking about growing in love, when the post is about Being perfect. You said that being perfect meant being God's love. Now you are saying that it means becoming God's love? Which is it? Hard to converse when the topic keeps changing.

So, it can be a clever trick to get people to commit to the idea that a child of God can not sin, at all . . . so that then the trickery can lead the person to throw out the book of Revelation and the letter to the Galatians, because they contradict how the person understands not being able to sin.

This would be a terrible trick...because the majority, like yourself, teaches that we have to sin and there is no way around it......just repent after. What trickery teaches one not to sin? If you have the truth...it stands on its own....no need to try to put other teachings down thereby leaving only yours as an option.

 

[RDKirk]

So it is your view that The bible teaches that there are Perfect Sinners, correct? And this would also imply that Jesus was commanding us to be and Perfect Sinners, just like god is? Even if you say, we are taking on the trait, or attitude of God instead....this would still imply that we could be like God in character and still be a "sinner". So what are you saying, exactly?

I said:

None of them means "without sin." They all mean attaining the position or role or attitude God intends you to attain.

Also see post #8

 

[RDKirk]

Ok, now you are talking about growing in love, when the post is about Being perfect. You said that being perfect meant being God's love. Now you are saying that it means becoming God's love? Which is it? Hard to converse when the topic keeps changing.



This would be a terrible trick...because the majority, like yourself, teaches that we have to sin and there is no way around it......just repent after. What trickery teaches one not to sin? If you have the truth...it stands on its own....no need to try to put other teachings down thereby leaving only yours as an option.

Can you locate the verse (two or three--because multiple witnesses are necessary to prove truth) where it says "perfect means without sin?" What verse anywhere in scripture suggests that one is "perfect" only when one is without sin?

 

[com7fy8]

Ok, now you are talking about growing in love, when the post is about Being perfect.

The Bible speaks of love which is perfect. And the context of the quoted scripture is how our Father is loving . . . perfect in how He loves. So, the definition which Jesus means has to do with how God in His love is perfect, and Jesus tells us to be perfect also in how we love.

So, I am talking about what are not different subjects, and I find that Jesus is not talking about being without sinning, but how to become perfectly loving like God is.

Of course, as we grow in how God has us loving, our sinning becomes more and more reduced.

 

[Halbhh]

Matthew 5:48 reads:

"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."


So what exactly does Jesus mean by "Be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect."? does this mean we can achieve perfection in this life? Does this mean we can be sinless and completely perfect in this life? That we should strive for perfection? No, what Jesus meant by "Be perfect" was he was telling his listeners the requirements to get into heaven. To get into heaven we have to be perfect and sinless. However, this is an impossibility in our life. You see, when we are born again and washed by the holy spirit our spirits are made sinless and enter heaven. This is not any of our doing it is the work of God. Then when our physical bodies die we are taken to be with our spirits and Jesus in heaven while our physical bodies sleep in the ground awaiting the resurrection. When Jesus returns he will then raise our bodies perfect, sinless and without blemish and we will finally be rid of the sin curse. But, to achieve sinless perfection in this life is an impossibility when Jesus said "Be perfect" he meant the afterlife. So what do you think? Discuss.

48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

makes sense naturally only if I've been reading and really listening through Matthew chapter 5, so that this -- which is a part of what comes before it -- completes and fills out what comes before it.

It's like 'being perfect' to be able to "love your enemies" -- it's not easy!...until you have profound aid (and have repented and prayed for help, and tried again, and repented, and prayed...was my experience). Having the goal helps us know whether we are making progress.

"walking" in His footsteps.

It's part of what Paul pointed at when Paul wrote in Ephesians 2, v 10 (part and one with verses 8-9 we are all hearing constantly this month I bet) --

"For we are His workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

To "walk" that way, progressing, moving. Moving from one spot, walking, so that later in time we are in another spot, having walked.

So that, again as Paul wrote, we aren't just babes drinking only milk, but can progress/mature to more.

Of course, we will be knocked back at times.

Hearing that we are to love our enemies helps us realize how desperately and necessary for us it is to pray the Lord's Prayer which is coming next, very soon, in just the next chapter, Matthew chapter 6.

 

[com7fy8]

We are growing in His love, but we are not perfectly the way His love is. So, yes we can still sin.

You said that being perfect meant being God's love. Now you are saying that it means becoming God's love? Which is it? Hard to converse when the topic keeps changing.

I say that being perfect is being the way God's love is. Perfection, then, does not only mean to stop sinful behavior. Because we need how God cures our nature so we become how His love is.

We are now being changed like this, I mean > God is still doing this good work in us; therefore, we now are not fully His way, but He is now working this in us > Philippians 1:6 < God in us has begun this good work, but we have not been changed all the way to be perfectly like Jesus.

And so, we can still give in to sin things, but not as much as we used to be able to. As we grow in His love, we become less and less capable of sinning, because God's love shares His own nature with us, and God is not capable of doing evil > James 1:13.

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world" (in Philippians 2:13-16).

Paul here says that by stopping our arguing and complaining we can "become" "blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of" this evil world's "crooked and perverse generation". So, it is clear that Paul knows we have not fully stopped sins of arguing and complaining, but that by stopping them we can attain to the perfection not of only stopping sin behaviors, but the perfection of being "blameless and harmless, children of God without fault".

And this is what I think Jesus means when He says to be perfect as our Father is perfect. It is not only about stopping sins. It is about how we become loving the way our Father is loving and therefore Jesus says He is "perfect"

 

[com7fy8]

This would be a terrible trick...because the majority, like yourself, teaches that we have to sin and there is no way around it......just repent after.

I know I have not written this, in such words. What I mean is that as we grow in Jesus, we have more and more of His incapability to sin, plus we share with Him in how He is loving any and all people. But as much as we still are not perfectly like Jesus, our imperfect nature makes us capable of sinning. But this decreases as we grow in Christ.

 

[RaymondG]

I said:

None of them means "without sin." They all mean attaining the position or role or attitude God intends you to attain.

Also see post #8

OK, so you are saying that When Jesus states to be ye perfect, Like God......He is saying to be, not like God, but attaining the position what God wants you to attain. And in this position , you will still be a sinner, because it isnt possible not to be. Correct? I am more concerned about the verse mentioned in the OP.....Can you tell me your views only on that verse.