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Frankly looks like debate.
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No, YOU attack the Holy Bible, by trying to twist its teaching to say that it it the sole infallible authority, when all it says, is that it's an infallible authority, as I have clearly demonstrated.I do not care one little bit if you choose to argue with me. It is however very sad to see you or for that matter so entrenched in their "religion" that they argue with God and His Words as found in the Bible.
YOU as a present day Catholic want people to believe that the YOU and the Catholic Church has faith in the Bible, and that it is the church of the Bible, and encourages its members to read and study the Bible. However, when Catholics try to disprove the Bible as the only authority in religion, their true attitude toward the Bible is revealed just as you have just done.
YOU and The Catholic Church oppose the Bible as the sole guide and standard in religion and whenever it tries to disprove it as such, its true attitude toward it is manifested.
And to affirm reality, which the main reason, I'm Catholic, I want to live in conformity with reality, and that means being Catholic, even if the Church is under the tyrannical grips of the modernists.The Catholic church itself has said..............
"Is it not strange that if Christianity were to be learned from the Bible only, that Christ himself never wrote a line or commanded his apostles to write; for their divine commission was not to write but to preach the gospel." (Question Box, p. 70).
"Christ gave his disciples no command to write, but only to teach." (Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 5, p. 767).
The only reason why the Catholic Church would say that was to establish that the Bible alone is not the standard of authority.
Yes, it is God's will that we have infallible authority of Sacred Scripture, and YES it was through the agency of men and believers, but why would he dispose of these human agents when the Bible was written? He didn't dispose of the House of David, au contraire, He made the flesh and blood of the House of David His living temple, Our Lady, and He became incarnate in the flesh and blood of the House of David through her! Likewise the Catholic Church that was used by God to write and canonize the Holy Bible are also His Mystical Body!Christ didn't actually take a pen in His hand and write the New Testament; nevertheless, it is His production. The Old Testament declares that God built the temple in 1 Kings 8:16,20, but do YOU think that God actually came down and build it Himself???????
He built it through the agency of men and believers in God. Likewise, the written New Testament is the will of Christ. He wrote it through those commissioned by Him. It contains His laws as seen in 1 Cor. 14:37 and produces the faith which brings life in His name as recorded by John 20:30-31.
My point was, that if Jesus taught Sola Scriptura, He would have placed heavy emphasis on having the Apostles write things down. Instead, He didn't emphasize it, which implies that what was important, was not necessarily the Bible, but that Our Lord's Gospel be preached, by both, spoken and and written word, as well as deed.Thus, the Catholic Church and YOU are incorrect when they say Christ never commissioned His apostles to write. In many books of the prophets of the Old Testament there are no commands to write, but it was God's will that they do so in order to preserve their words for all generations.
The Catholic officials and YOU have assumed that the command to the apostles to teach excluded written instruction. However, writing the inspired Scriptures was part of the work of the apostles and prophets in delivering God's message to man.
Then you best repent and believe in the Holy Gospel, for you are resisting it in the name of Sola Scriptura, a tradition of men!In John 12:48 Jesus taught that His word would be the standard of judgment in the last day. He said.........
"He that despiseth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him, the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."
(Catholic Rheims Translation).
Companion verses show that men will be judged by "the gospel" in Rom. 2:16, and "the law of liberty" in James 2:12, and "the books" in Rev. 20:12. All of these are similar and reveal that men will be judged by the New Testament of Christ in the last day.
Yet they (the apostles) did write things down....The New Testament. Quote below the pic in signature confirms this.My point was, that if Jesus taught Sola Scriptura, He would have placed heavy emphasis on having the Apostles write things down. Instead, He didn't emphasize it, which implies that what was important, was not necessarily the Bible, but that Our Lord's Gospel be preached, by both, spoken and and written word, as well as deed.
1 Peter 2:9New King James Version (NKJV)Presbyteros is simply Greek for priest, as any dictionary will affirm. "hiereus" is for the OT priests that fell into disuse, which is why you don't see "hiereus" in the NT. The reason you are so angry over this matter is that your spiritual forefathers abolished the NT priesthood. Now you want to blame the CC.
Not accurate.Presbyteros is simply Greek for priest, as any dictionary will affirm. "hiereus" is for the OT priests that fell into disuse, which is why you don't see "hiereus" in the NT
Like I said, that's not my point.Yet they (the apostles) did write things down....The New Testament. Quote below the pic in signature confirms this.
These Traditions are not "man made" but are of God, and develop organically overtime, some of them, like the Holy Rosary as attacked below, (which saved Europe from a Muslim invasion 446 years ago, last Saturday, see here: Feast Of Our Lady Of The Rosary | Christian Forums) spring in whole, or in part, from Sacred Scriptures themselves. But this isn't what we're debating here.My dear friend. You beating "Traditions" to death.
NO ONE is saying that traditions are evil or wrong or sin.
The problem is that when MAN MADE traditions replace the directions given in the Bible.
That is the issue and that is what "Sola Scripture" tries to eliminate.
Here's an interesting passage:Deuteronomy 4:2.......
"Ye shall not ADD UNTO THE WORD which I command you neither shall ye take away from it.............".
Saint Paul never married either, is he condemning himself here?May I also point out to you the words of Paul in 1 Timothy 4:1-3...........
"Now the Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days some shall depart fro the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and the doctrines of devils, speaking lies in hypocrisy having their conscience seared with a hot iron............FORBIDDING TO MARRY, and commanding to abstain from meats.........".
Now having read that, I hope that you know that the Catholic Church forbids its Bishops and priests to marry.
No, if what you said here was true, which it's not -Again, St. Paul never married, so if this were true, St. Paul would be guilty of the very thing he is condemning!- this wouldn't be adding to Scripture, this would be disobeying.Again..........this is ADDING to the Scriptures!!!!
Yes, Jannes and Mambres, are in the Bible, just as are Devotion to Mary, and Purgatory, it's just that, they're not explicit. The fact that you refer to the Targum, just reinforces my argument that Saint Paul is quoting Tradition, Sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture, and the Magisterium, all work together to teach us the Holy Gospel of Jesus Christ, and Divine Revelation.Now as for Jannes and Jambres, may I say to you that they are the names of the two magicians who stood against Moses. Exodus 7:11 says to us................
"Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the socerers, now the magicians of Egypt...........".
Their names were actually preserved in a Targum which is an Aramaic paraphrase of a portion of the Hebrew old Test. and that is why Paul knew their names as recorded in 2 Timothy 3:8.
When you post provocative assertive propaganda then sometimes it finally needs to be refuted as a descriptive list, rather than a link, while you posted about 30 links, taking up about as much space, in lieu of an argument.This is a rant. Cut it down to one or two topics, not rattle off 5+ topics in one post that would take 5 pages to answer.
Wrong. Orthodox historian scholar John Anthony McGuckin admits that "the word "priesthood" is itself a corruption of the Greek "presbyter." (John Anthony McGuckin, "The Orthodox Church: An Introduction to its History, Doctrine, and Spiritual Culture)Presbyteros is simply Greek for priest, as any dictionary will affirm. "hiereus" is for the OT priests that fell into disuse, which is why you don't see "hiereus" in the NT.
which is why you don't see "hiereus" in the NT.
There you go again, resorting to your vicious fallacious mind reading. You should know is just makes you look like a desperate cultist, who assumes anyone who dares disagree with the object of your devotion must be driven by a malevolent angry motive, and never love for Truth, and who thus defends teachings we agree on since that are of Scripture.The reason you are so angry over this matter is that your spiritual forefathers abolished the NT priesthood. Now you want to blame the CC.
I'll be honest. Sola Scriptura has been defended. See how that works.Does anyone want to still keep trying to defend Sola Scriptura? Or shall I bring at that proof-text for one of the most important Dogmas in the Catholic Faith, and have you try and attack it?
If you we not blind or blinded you could see that,Does anyone want to still keep trying to defend Sola Scriptura? Or shall I bring at that proof-text for one of the most important Dogmas in the Catholic Faith, and have you try and attack it?
These Traditions are not "man made" but are of God, and develop organically overtime, some of them, like the Holy Rosary as attacked below, (which saved Europe from a Muslim invasion 446 years ago, last Saturday, see here: Feast Of Our Lady Of The Rosary | Christian Forums) spring in whole, or in part, from Sacred Scriptures themselves. But this isn't what we're debating here.
Here's an interesting passage:
For I testify to every one that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add to these things, God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book.So it's worse to take away words from Divine Revelation, than to add them, so if a group of Christians were to say... tear seven books out of the Bible, we should be more fearful of those folk, than Christians who allegedly add stuff. But that's another topic for another time.
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book.
Revelations 22:18-19 DR
Saint Paul never married either, is he condemning himself here?
No, if what you said here was true, which it's not -Again, St. Paul never married, so if this were true, St. Paul would be guilty of the very thing he is condemning!- this wouldn't be adding to Scripture, this would be disobeying.
And yes, I'm not afraid to say this, because I know that I and the Catholic Church live in conformity with Divine Revelation which reveals itself through the Sacred Scriptures which do not contradict, Sacred Tradition, or the Magisterium! You however do, as you however do, you follow Sola Scriptura, and fail to defend it as Biblically sound.
Yes, Jannes and Mambres, are in the Bible, just as are Devotion to Mary, and Purgatory, it's just that, they're not explicit. The fact that you refer to the Targum, just reinforces my argument that Saint Paul is quoting Tradition, Sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture, and the Magisterium, all work together to teach us the Holy Gospel of Jesus Christ, and Divine Revelation.
No, YOU attack the Holy Bible, by trying to twist its teaching to say that it it the sole infallible authority, when all it says, is that it's an infallible authority, as I have clearly demonstrated.
And to affirm reality, which the main reason, I'm Catholic, I want to live in conformity with reality, and that means being Catholic, even if the Church is under the tyrannical grips of the modernists.
Yes, it is God's will that we have infallible authority of Sacred Scripture, and YES it was through the agency of men and believers, but why would he dispose of these human agents when the Bible was written? He didn't dispose of the House of David, au contraire, He made the flesh and blood of the House of David His living temple, Our Lady, and He became incarnate in the flesh and blood of the House of David through her! Likewise the Catholic Church that was used by God to write and canonize the Holy Bible are also His Mystical Body!
My point was, that if Jesus taught Sola Scriptura, He would have placed heavy emphasis on having the Apostles write things down. Instead, He didn't emphasize it, which implies that what was important, was not necessarily the Bible, but that Our Lord's Gospel be preached, by both, spoken and and written word, as well as deed.
Then you best repent and believe in the Holy Gospel, for you are resisting it in the name of Sola Scriptura, a tradition of men!
There are plenty of pro life warriors in all Christian denominations Roman Catholic including. What our Roman Catholic friends will tell us is those who are pro choice are not in keeping with church teachings. They are correct to say so.
The issue I believe @PeaceByJesus makes is why are the shepherds of the Catholic flock not exercising their authority to correct, reprove or remove such members who are publicly thumbing their noses at clear church teachings?
For every bishop who refused to give Nancy Pelosi communion there are three who will.
Paul also quotes truths which pagans professed, (Acts 17:28) and we know this is Truth because it is stated as being so in wholly inspired words as the word of God. Likewise we know that it was Jannes and Jambres that withstood Moses because of its inclusion in wholly inspired Scripture. (2 Timothy 3:8) That is our basis for it being Divinely Revealed Truth, for it cannot be that all that has been said or orally passed down is Divine Truth.Yes, Jannes and Mambres, are in the Bible, just as are Devotion to Mary, and Purgatory, it's just that, they're not explicit. The fact that you refer to the Targum, just reinforces my argument that Saint Paul is quoting Tradition, Sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture, and the Magisterium, all work together to teach us the Holy Gospel of Jesus Christ, and Divine Revelation.