From here, Protestantism looks absolutely abysmal! All a Protestantism has to do is defend Sola Scriptura yet, the vast majority of Protestants are instead attacking Catholic Dogma, doctrines, and practices! Imagine a CF thread where a Catholic Dogma is being challenged and all the Catholics are ignoring the issue and instead attacking Sola Fidei, and you'll get an idea of just how pathetic you look!
Oh good! Than you'll do just fine at my upcoming Mother of God debate on October 16th, I highly Highly recommend you to attend!
I win!
You wish! But I tell you what, if this debate continues to go the way it's going, with all of you failing to defend Sola Scriptura, I'll give you one Bible verse that proves one of the most important aspects of the Catholic Faith and see how you fair in attacking it!
Really? I don't think all Protestants believe in the Rapture, and one Protestant can easily debunk it using logical deduction.
Finally! Another Protestant trying to actually defend Sola Scriptura! Even though earlier you said Sola Scriptura could not be defended.
No, it just says that Sacred Scripture is God-breathed and thus infallible, it does not say that because Sacred Scripture is infallible, Sacred Tradition isn't. Here's what FishEaters says about that "proof-text":
“Some Protestants like to use 2 Timothy 3:16-17 as a "proof-text" that Sola Scriptura is a Biblical principle:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
No Catholic, of course, disagrees with these verses, or with any verses of Sacred Scripture. Of course Scripture is profitable! We Catholics see it as one of the three pillars of the very Church (the other two being Sacred Tradition and the Magisterim -- the teaching authority of the Church). But Protestants are obviously reading into this text what they want to see. Imagine you are a soldier. Now read this:
"All Army teaching guides are given by inspiration of the experts, and are profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in the life of a soldier: That the soldier may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all a soldier needs to do.”
Would you take it to mean that the soldier, then, no longer needs a Drill Sergeant for training him, weaponry, ammunition, armor, communications equipment, etc.? Saying that X is profitable or necessary and that X helps one become thoroughly furnished for something doesn't say at all that Y is also not profitable or necessary and that Y helps one become thoroughly furnished for something. And how can Protestants square their reading of 2 Timothy 3:16-17 with Ephesians 4:11-12, which reads:
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
According to these verses, what is needed for the perfecting of the saints are the apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers! How could this possibly be if all we need is the "Bible alone”?”
-FishEaters
I didn't even bring up the fact, that at the time St. Paul wrote 2 Timothy 3:16-17, that the only Scripture present at the time, was the Old Testament.
2 Peter 3:15-16 was written after St. Paul. If anything, the passage affirms the Authority of the Magisterium to recognize and affirm New Testament Scripture. I don't see any implications in 1 Timothy 5:18 or St. Luke 10:17 that said works, or any other New Testament works, were recognized as Scriptures. I find it hilarious that you would try and quote a Gospel to justify Sola Scriptura since Jesus, in no way, shape or form, teaches Sola Scriptura! He quotes Old Testament Scripture, yes, but He doesn't order His Apostles and Disciples to write down a New Testament, let alone, tell His disciples to live by Scripture alone. The term New Testament appears only twice in all of the Four Gospels, but it is not referring to Scriptures but to something much, much, MUCH, greater! I think Dr. David Anders perfectly sums up, the complete absence of Jesus' teaching Sola Scriptura in the Gospels:
"How did Jesus intend for the faith to be handed on? What advice did He give? What structure or individuals did He appoint for the handing on of the faith? Did He recommend that believers run to the (non-existent) NT scriptures for any reason at all? Catholicism is often falsely accused of having man-made doctrines, when the gigantic elephant in the Protestant living room is the 100% man-made doctrine of bible alone. Thus, it is perhaps better to ask SS types for references that indicate that Jesus taught bible alone, that He wrote anything which was passed on, or that He commanded the writing of anything, or evidence that He intended believers to run to the scriptures when the inevitable disputes arose. There is scriptural evidence for exactly none of this. Bible as sole rule is the allegation, placing the burden of proof upon those who hold to it."
Psalms 119:89...........
"Your word, O Lord, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens.”
Psalms 138:2................
“You have exalted above all things your name and your word.”
Matt. 24:35..................
“Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.”
John 10:35...................
“The Scripture cannot be broken.”
John 17:17..................
“Your word is truth.”
2 Tim. 3:16................
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training righteousness.”
As we try to point out Sola Scriptura it is clear that we are in a difficult position with Catholics, Orthodox and Watchtower believers. That is because when we point out the verses that prove sola Scriptura is taught in scripture, they don't believe they can understand the Bible without their church interpreting it for them... and they say sola Scriptura is not taught in the Bible. What an amazing system of circular deception the Catholic, Orthodox and Brooklyn New York, churches have invented.
Sola Scriptura means that you use the Bible alone for doctrine. This means Catholics and Orthodox need not appeal to their contradictory oral church traditions and Jehovah's Witnesses need not rely upon the Watchtower magazine to interpret the Bible for them.
1 Corinthians 4:6...............
"Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes,
that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other."
Now the Biblical fact is that never does Jesus refer to oral traditions in a positive way.
Every time he defends truth he refers to the scriptures.
The only times Jesus referred to Oral traditions, was condemning them:.....
'But in vain do they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.'
"Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men."
He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
"For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death'; but you say, 'If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),' you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that." (Mark 7:7-13)
Lets go deeper with what Jesus Himself taught us, shall we?
Luke 10:26...............
"What is written in the Law?
How does it read to you?"
Mark 12:24...............
Jesus said to them, "Is this not the reason you are mistaken
, that you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God?
Matthew 22:29..........
But Jesus answered and said to them, "
You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God.
Matthew 20:17........
"The Son of Man is to go,
just as it is written of Him".
There were any oral traditions as to who the messiah was. All were wrong! Some thought he was merely a king, some merely a prophet, some merely a priest!
Luke 20:17...............
"
What then is this that is written: 'The stone which the builders rejected, This became the chief corner stone'?
John 5:39.............
"
You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me".
Matthew 26:54..............
"
How then will the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that it must happen this way?"
2 Tim. 3:15..............
"from childhood you have
known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."
Ephesians 3:2-5..............
"if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you; that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery
, as I wrote before in brief. By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; Ephesians 3:2-5
2 Corinthians 1:13...........
"
For we write nothing else to you than what you read and understand, and I hope you will understand until the end".
