How will people know?

[Dave Watchman]

LOL! How do you know?

I'd rather not say right now.

All my indicators are flashing red moons .

But my indicators are not the indicators of the majority here. So I think that the two witnesses were given their power soon after the third moon of the tetrad.

"And if anyone would harm them,
fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes.
If anyone would harm them,
this is how he is doomed to be killed.​

When Jesus returns, it has been written that a sharp sword will come out of His mouth to destroy his enemies.

"Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations.​

This is not really a literal sword being talked about, it's a command that comes from the white horse Rider's mouth.

If the two witnesses are the Bible and the Holy Spirit, their enemies are doomed to be killed by the fire that comes down from Heaven. This scenario is spoken of, coming out of the mouth of, the Bible in various places.

"And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city,
but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,

"And if anyone would harm them,
fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes.

"If anyone would harm them,
this is how he is doomed to be killed.
​

This is how they are doomed to be killed.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[iamlamad]

If the two witnesses are the Bible and the Holy Spirit, their enemies are doomed to be killed by the fire that comes down from Heaven. This scenario is spoken of, coming out of the mouth of, the Bible in various places.

Sorry, but the two REAL witnesses WILL BE put to death.
On the other hand, the Bible will NEVER be put to death.
The Holy Spirit will never be put to death.
These two witnesses will be TWO HUMAN MEN.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Sorry, but the two REAL witnesses WILL BE put to death.
On the other hand, the Bible will NEVER be put to death.
The Holy Spirit will never be put to death.
These two witnesses will be TWO HUMAN MEN.

Don't be sorry.

The two witnesses are not two human men. The word “men” is not found in the Greek text. It was inserted in some translations. "These men have the power to close up the sky so that it does not rain during the days of their prophecy". (Holman Christian Standard Bible) The KJV correctly translates this phrase by reading: “These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy...”

And you don't think that the Bible can be killed? Jesus was killed and rose again after 3 days and nights. Do you think that the Bible cannot be killed because it's not alive? For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword. But here we have a more likely than not case of personification.

God uses personification throughout the Bible. God personified the behavior of the ten tribes and two tribes of divided Israel as two adulterous sisters in Ezekiel 23. By personifying Himself as Israel’s faithful husband and Israel and Judah as two adulterous sisters, God could demonstrate to His people how His heart was broken. What better way could He reveal His dissapointment than to portray His people as two adulterous women?

Personification:

per·son·i·fi·ca·tion
noun
noun: personification
the attribution of a personal nature or human characteristics to something nonhuman, or the representation of an abstract quality in human form.​

Personification is also described as giving “life” to an inanimate object. After months of debating the Congress passed a health care bill that changed the health care system. Before the final vote protesters carried signs that read, “Kill the Bill.” No one can really “kill” a piece of paper, or a law, but people treat Bills as living things because once a bill is signed into law, it takes on a life of its own. Killing a bill before it is signed into law is the only way to stop a bill from coming to “life.”

We also know that the influence of the Holy Spirit is "killed" in a person’s heart when that person commits the unpardonable sin. When God’s Spirit cannot live within a person, it becomes impossible for that sinner to submit to God’s influence. No one can kill the Holy Spirit, but a sinner can kill the guidance of the Holy Spirit through defiance or rebelion.

Zechariah saw a lampstand and two olive trees in Heaven. In Revelation John also saw seven lampstands in Heaven. The beast who rises from the bottomless pit cannot touch these objects and neither can mankind, but Lucifer can kill the influence of both the Bible and the Holy Spirit by leading people into rebellion.

With the two witnesses being described as the two olive trees and the two lampstands, I think it's easy to see that they are two of one kind of thing, and two of another kind of thing. At their culmination, I would suspect that they would be two pairs from the 144,000, being empowered by the Holy Spirit and the testimony contained within the Bible. Similar to how Jesus sent out the 72, but this time it will be 72,000 pairs of two witnesses.

They will not have finished going through all the towns before the Son of Man comes. And then the end will come.

 

[jgr]

Yes, I did mean Dan.9:27, and apologize for the typo. I need a new pair of glases, actually, no pun intended.

I suggest you read Jesus Olivet Discourse, which is an ampliiction of Dan.9:27, as is Rev.6. You might also review 1 Cor.12, asPaul reveals the Holy Spirit will give ifts to those whom He will. Everyone is not given the gift og prophecy, for example, or for any of the other many gifts. But we all share in the gifts He has specifically given to each one of us with the others.


Quasar92

Re. typo, no problem, I can relate to vision issues myself.

I'm very familiar with the passages you cited. There is still nothing that answers the question: Why, (with the brief exception of Irenaeus and Hippolytus who posited a gap) in historical true Christian Church enduring orthodoxy before the 19th century, is a gap otherwise not found?

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

The two witnesses are not two human men.

I think they are. Enoch and Elijah are two who never died. They must return to fulfill
Rev. 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

 

[Dave Watchman]

I think they are. Enoch and Elijah are two who never died. They must return to fulfill
Rev. 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

I know you do.

I remember from the other thread.

It was good logic. Moses can't be made to die twice.

But right now we are derailing this thread.

Please lets focus on the questions from the OP.

I just want to explore these questions.

How will people know when this terrible period has begun?

Will people know that this period has begun?

Will people deny that this period has begun?

Can you tell that I'm just having fun here?

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I know you do.

I remember from the other thread.

It was good logic. Moses can't be made to die twice.

But right now we are derailing this thread.

Please lets focus on the questions from the OP.

I just want to explore these questions.

How will people know when this terrible period has begun?

Will people know that this period has begun?

Will people deny that this period has begun?

Can you tell that I'm just having fun here?

Touche' . Let us do stay on topic.

 

[iamlamad]

I know you do.

I remember from the other thread.

It was good logic. Moses can't be made to die twice.

But right now we are derailing this thread.

Please lets focus on the questions from the OP.

I just want to explore these questions.

How will people know when this terrible period has begun?

Will people know that this period has begun?

Will people deny that this period has begun?

Can you tell that I'm just having fun here?

OF COURSE they will know! When the pretrib rapture ends the age of Grace, "TIME" will be the Day of the Lord. And when the trumpet jugements begin, all will know the 70th week will have begun. I think it begins with nuclear war: trumpets 1-3.

 

[iamlamad]

Re. typo, no problem, I can relate to vision issues myself.

I'm very familiar with the passages you cited. There is still nothing that answers the question: Why, (with the brief exception of Irenaeus and Hippolytus who posited a gap) in historical true Christian Church enduring orthodoxy before the 19th century, is a gap otherwise not found?

One good answer: during the dark ages, few knew ANYTHING about the truth of the bible.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Regardless of what rapture view we all hold, I think most of us can agree that the last seven years before Lord Jesus returns will be the worst and most devastating years on Earth since the world began.

I'm in the minority here. The great tribulation, the one that Jesus was talking about: "for then there will be great tribulation", should be a bit more than a year in duration. From 365 days to about 371 days in duration. These are the "days of Noah" or Isaiah's "year of recompense". Because it will be the worst time ever, "such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be", it can't be any longer than the time that Noah spent inside of the ark. Those 371 days can be found within the signs in the sun and in the moon and in the stars. But that would mean that this time would be the last one third of the various 42 month or 1260 day spans. 420+420+420. It would mean that we're already into the 42 months of Revelation 13.

I just want to explore these questions.How will people know when this terrible period has begun?

They won't know until, like the Luke 17 day that Lot left out from Sodom, fire falls from Heaven. The Son of Man will be revealed when fire burns up a third of the earth. By that time, we will be 2/3s of the way through the appointed time of the end.

Will people know that this period has begun?

No, it slipped in like a thief. Some people seemed suspicious of it. I remember seeing forum posts like: "Has The Tribulation Begun" or "Has The AofD Been Set Up".

Will people deny that this period has begun?

For sure. I do it all the time. Like: "No way, that can't be it", "is this it?, no way"?.

But I think I found it. The people are divided into three companies, three divisions. The great city is split into three parts. The 1260 day span that we are concerned about seems split into three watches of the night. The third watch could begin just 43 days from today.

The night began after the third moon of the tetrad in 2015 with the first watch, Lamentations 2:19 was the example, there's a mathematical connection to the "darkened" sun. (Let The Reader Understand).

“Arise, cry out in the night,
at the beginning of the night watches!
Pour out your heart like water
before the presence of the Lord!

"Lift your hands to him
for the lives of your children,
who faint for hunger
at the head of every street.”

That was the time to watch and pray and lift up our hands to the Lord for the lives of our children. And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days. Their children face a loss of truths of doctrine They're starving at every street corner for a famine of the Word, so flee into the wilderness.

"If he comes in the second watch,
or in the third, and finds them awake,
blessed are those servants!

EDIT

From: The Apocalypse Explained
BY EMANUEL SWEDENBOR. G.
transLATED FROM A LATIN POSTriUMoUs WORK ENTITLED
“APOCALYPSIS EXPLICATA secundum spiritualem sensum, ubi revelantur Arcana quae
ibi praedicta et hactenus ignata fuerunt.” Londini, 1789.

"So in Lamentations: “Arise, cry out in the night : in the beginning of
the watches pour out thine heart like water before the face of the
Lord: lift up thy hands towards him over the soul of thy young
children, that faint for hunger in the top of every street” (ii. 19).
Lamentation over those who are to be instructed in the know
ledges of good and truth, by which spiritual life is attained, is
here described by, “Lift up thy hands towards him over the soul
of thy young children;” and the want of those knowledges is
described by, “That faint for hunger in the top of every street,”
hunger, or famine, denoting defect or want, and street denoting
truths of doctrine; to faint in the top of the street, denotes the
absence of all truth. Again: “Servants have ruled over us :
there is none that doth deliver us out of their hand. We gat our
bread with the peril of our souls because of the sword of the wil
derness. Our skins are black like an oven because of the storms
of famine” (v. 8–10). By the servants that have ruled while
there was none to deliver out of their hand, are signified evils
of life and falsities of doctrine, and, in general, evil loves and
false principles. “We gat our bread with the peril of our souls,
because of the sword of the wilderness,” signifies that there is
no good from which the true spiritual life is derived, in conse
quence of what is false everywhere reigning; bread denoting
the good from which spiritual life is derived, the sword what is
false destroying, and the wilderness, where there is no good,
because there is no truth, for all good in man is formed by truths,
wherefore where there are no truths, but falsities only, good is
not given.

Edit #2

This YouTube author from Ohio also found the 420 - 49 day period of 371 days. Whenever I get a unique idea, it's not until i find a second witness that I feel more confident of some type of confirmation.

The author also confirms my finding in 2015 that the United States is the "place prepared by God" from Revelation 12 and the "holy place" that Jesus was talking about in the Olivet where the Abomination stands.

In all honesty, if I didn't have the 1290 day lock fit on the "darkened" sun, I probably wouldn't even be writing this note right now.

While my understanding of the actual abomination is different than the video's author, it's an interesting watch and Michael seems to be a good guy.

 

[iamlamad]

They won't know until, like the Luke 17 day that Lot left out from Sodom, fire falls from Heaven. The Son of Man will be revealed when fire burns up a third of the earth. By that time, we will be 2/3s of the way through the appointed time of the end.

I disagree" the trumpet jugments come in the first half of the week, and the first will come very shorty after the rapture

 

[jgr]

One good answer: during the dark ages, few knew ANYTHING about the truth of the bible.

Waldenses, Huguenots, Albigenses, Hussites, Lollards, et al. The papacy slew them by the thousands. But God has always preserved His faithful remnant.

If the doctrine had been part of historic true Church orthodoxy, the Reformers would have borne witness to it in their battle to overcome the spiritual darkness of the apostate church.

They did not. John Calvin reiterates the Church's historic stand on Daniel 9:27:
"Now, therefore, we understand why the angel says, Christ should confirm the covenant for one week, and why that week was placed last in order. In this week will he confirm the covenant with many."

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Waldenses, Huguenots, Albigenses, Hussites, Lollards, et al. The papacy slew them by the thousands. But God has always preserved His faithful remnant.

If the doctrine had been part of historic true Church orthodoxy, the Reformers would have borne witness to it in their battle to overcome the spiritual darkness of the apostate church.

They did not. John Calvin reiterates the Church's historic stand on Daniel 9:27:
"Now, therefore, we understand why the angel says, Christ should confirm the covenant for one week, and why that week was placed last in order. In this week will he confirm the covenant with many."

So, in your opinion, how will people know that the last seven years before Lord Jesus returns has begun?

 

[Dave Watchman]

I disagree" the trumpet jugments come in the first half of the week, and the first will come very shorty after the rapture

It not impossible, but it's not very likely.

For one thing, when the first four trumpets fall they are extinction level events. Humanity won't survive for three or more years. There would be no flesh saved alive by then.

But the main thing is how Luke 17 shows the abomination of desolation. Luke shows what it is by replacing the abomination with the "days of Lot", and the timing, the day to flee.

Matthew 24 is like:

• So when you see the Abomination of Desolation.
• Flee to the mountains.
• Don't go back to take what is in your house.
• For then there will be great tribulation.

Luke 17 is like:

• Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking.
• The day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven.
• Don't go back to take what is in your house.
• (For then there will be great tribulation)

And I think I see the AofD, standing where it ought not to be. What makes me so sure, so confident of what I say, are the 1290 days. This is the key. The 1290 days can provide a lock fit even by itself. But there are other witnesses as well.

"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. ​

This is just an additional answer, providing additional detail, to the same question asked in verse 6:

"How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? ​

It's going to be 1260 days, but the end is also going to come 1290 days after the daily is taken away and the Abomination is seen standing where it ought not to be. This happens exactly 30 days before the 1260 days begin.

I know that there's different ways to understand this. Some think that it's two different events separated by 1290 days like this:

DS<-------1290------->AofD

Nope, that's not what it is.

It goes like this:

DS/AofD<-------1290------->

The taking away of the daily, AND the AofD being set up, happen on the same day a split second apart.

"And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.​

So if both of the above mentioned events occur on the same day, what happens on the 1290th day? "There shall be 1,290 days" to what? The answer is: to "the end of these wonders". The End. It is finished.

End of these wonders, (EofW).

DS/AofD<-------1290------->EofW.

Jesus said that the sun would be "darkened" and the moon would not give it's light. He said that this would happen "Immediately" after the tribulation of those days. Which is the equivalent to Daniel 12's: "end of these wonders".

If Jesus was talking about a solar and a lunar eclipse, this diagram here:

DS/AofD<-------1290------->EofW.

Could also be drawn like this:

DS/AofD<-------1290------->Sun/Moon.

If this is correct, we don't have very much time to find out. No time at all to build a new temple in Jerusalem. The man of sin has [probably] already taken his seat in the one that matters.

I'm sorry.

This video has some interesting clips of the geology of Sodom today, and check out the two little pre teen boys at 9:30 in. I never had friends like that when I was in school.

 

[jgr]

So, in your opinion, how will people know that the last seven years before Lord Jesus returns has begun?

They've known about the last seven of the 490 years for 2000 years. The last seven years were the final years of the 490 year prophesied period, encompassing the last 3 1/2 years of Jesus' ministry. The last seven years before the Lord Jesus returns are not part of Daniel's 490 year period; i.e. the last week of seven years is not disembodied from the previous 483 years. Jesus confirms His covenant during the final seven years.

If you are looking to establish a prophetic case regarding the last seven years before Christ returns, you will need to do it with Scripture other than Daniel's 490 years.

This overwhelmingly reflects historic true Church doctrine for over 1800 years.

 

[Quasar92]

Re. typo, no problem, I can relate to vision issues myself.

I'm very familiar with the passages you cited. There is still nothing that answers the question: Why, (with the brief exception of Irenaeus and Hippolytus who posited a gap) in historical true Christian Church enduring orthodoxy before the 19th century, is a gap otherwise not found?

There is a gap of time taking place right now, between Dan.26 and 27, which is the Church age:

A gap in time between the 69th and 70th Week. In Dan. 9:26 the, "Messiah...cut off" occurred around 33 A.D., followed by "The people of the prince who is to come", who destroyed the city and temple. “The people”, who came were the Romans under Titus in 70 A.D., but also mentioned is “A prince who is come.” The people and prince are connected but separated by time. The people who destroy Jerusalem and the Temple would be descendants of the future prince. The prince would be a descendent of Romans who destroyed Jerusalem. At the end of the 69th week which ended with the death of Messiah the prince there was a period of 37-40 years before the rest of the 26th verse was fulfilled. We can see that the 70th week would not immediately follow the 69th week. There is a gap between the 69th and 70th week.(1)


A interval of in time is also seen in Zechariah 9:9 and 9:10. Verse 9 has Messiah entering Jerusalem on a Donkey and verse 10 has Messiah ruling over the nations. The time gap is known as Prophetic Compression. Prophetic compression is also demonstrated in Isaiah 9:6 and 9:7. Messiah is born a child in verse 6 and is ruling on David’s throne over the earth in verse 7. In Daniel 9:26 Messiah is cut off and the prophetic clock stops with one seven-year period yet to be accomplished. Daniel 9:27, tells us the circumstances surrounding this 70th

Week.(1) Another time gap is seen between Isaiah 61:1-2.

Isaiah spoke of Christ coming "to bring good news to the afflicted...to bind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to captives...to proclaim the favorable year of the lord" (Isa. 61: 1-2). Jesus Himself interpreted this passage in Luke 4:16-21, indicating these words referred to His first-advent ministry. In fact, Jesus stopped His reading in the middle of a sentence and commented that those words were presently being fulfilled. But the Isaiah passage goes on to speak of "the day of vengeance of our God." which speaks of activities at His second-advent.(2)

Since Christ's death took place sometime around 30-32 A.D. and the fall of Jerusalem around A.D.70, it seems reasonable to conclude that the natural sequence in the weeks has been interrupted.(3)

According to Daniel 9:26 the Anointed One was not “cut off” in the 70th “seven”; He was cut off after the 7 and 62 “sevens” had run their course. This means that there is an interval between the 69th and 70th “sevens.” Christ’s crucifixion, then, was in that interval, right after His Triumphal Entry, which concluded the 69th “seven.” This interval was anticipated by Christ when He prophesied the establishing of the church (Matt. 16:18). This necessitated the setting aside of the nation Israel for a season in order that His new program for the church might be instituted. Christ predicted the setting aside of the nation (Matt. 21:42-43). The present Church Age is the

Interval between the 69th and 70th “sevens.”(4)

When Israel's prophetic clock was put on hold (When Messiah was "cut off" ) the Church Age clock started ticking. The Rapture event will end the Church Age and Israel's clock will again start ticking for the final week (7 year period).(5)

The church clock is like the old Timex commercial: It has taken a licking but is has kept on ticking! The church of Jesus has been persecuted and slammed, burned and beaten but it still thrives. You and I are blessed to be able to live during this wonderful interval of grace when anyone who puts their faith in Jesus will receive God’s mercy and forgiveness. But we need to understand the church clock will stop ticking sometime in the future. When? Look at Romans 11:25 again. When the full number of Gentiles has come in. That is, when the last individual of “God’s elect” is added to the Church. BOOM! That’s it, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, the Father will say to His Son, “Go, collect your Bride.” Jesus will come to gather His church, His Bride and take us to his Father’s House for the Wedding Party. That’s what we often call the rapture of the church; we will be snatched out of here. That’s what Paul means when he writes in I Thessalonians 4:17, “We who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.” Whew! I get excited just thinking about it!!!(5)

Source: http://jewishroots.net/library/prophecy/daniel/daniel-9-24-27/gap-in-between-69-and-70.html


Quasar92

 

[jgr]

There is a gap of time taking place right now, between Dan.26 and 27, which is the Church age:

A gap in time between the 69th and 70th Week. In Dan. 9:26 the, "Messiah...cut off" occurred around 33 A.D., followed by "The people of the prince who is to come", who destroyed the city and temple. “The people”, who came were the Romans under Titus in 70 A.D., but also mentioned is “A prince who is come.” The people and prince are connected but separated by time. The people who destroy Jerusalem and the Temple would be descendants of the future prince. The prince would be a descendent of Romans who destroyed Jerusalem. At the end of the 69th week which ended with the death of Messiah the prince there was a period of 37-40 years before the rest of the 26th verse was fulfilled. We can see that the 70th week would not immediately follow the 69th week. There is a gap between the 69th and 70th week.(1)


A interval of in time is also seen in Zechariah 9:9 and 9:10. Verse 9 has Messiah entering Jerusalem on a Donkey and verse 10 has Messiah ruling over the nations. The time gap is known as Prophetic Compression. Prophetic compression is also demonstrated in Isaiah 9:6 and 9:7. Messiah is born a child in verse 6 and is ruling on David’s throne over the earth in verse 7. In Daniel 9:26 Messiah is cut off and the prophetic clock stops with one seven-year period yet to be accomplished. Daniel 9:27, tells us the circumstances surrounding this 70th

Week.(1) Another time gap is seen between Isaiah 61:1-2.

Isaiah spoke of Christ coming "to bring good news to the afflicted...to bind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to captives...to proclaim the favorable year of the lord" (Isa. 61: 1-2). Jesus Himself interpreted this passage in Luke 4:16-21, indicating these words referred to His first-advent ministry. In fact, Jesus stopped His reading in the middle of a sentence and commented that those words were presently being fulfilled. But the Isaiah passage goes on to speak of "the day of vengeance of our God." which speaks of activities at His second-advent.(2)

Since Christ's death took place sometime around 30-32 A.D. and the fall of Jerusalem around A.D.70, it seems reasonable to conclude that the natural sequence in the weeks has been interrupted.(3)

According to Daniel 9:26 the Anointed One was not “cut off” in the 70th “seven”; He was cut off after the 7 and 62 “sevens” had run their course. This means that there is an interval between the 69th and 70th “sevens.” Christ’s crucifixion, then, was in that interval, right after His Triumphal Entry, which concluded the 69th “seven.” This interval was anticipated by Christ when He prophesied the establishing of the church (Matt. 16:18). This necessitated the setting aside of the nation Israel for a season in order that His new program for the church might be instituted. Christ predicted the setting aside of the nation (Matt. 21:42-43). The present Church Age is the

Interval between the 69th and 70th “sevens.”(4)

When Israel's prophetic clock was put on hold (When Messiah was "cut off" ) the Church Age clock started ticking. The Rapture event will end the Church Age and Israel's clock will again start ticking for the final week (7 year period).(5)

The church clock is like the old Timex commercial: It has taken a licking but is has kept on ticking! The church of Jesus has been persecuted and slammed, burned and beaten but it still thrives. You and I are blessed to be able to live during this wonderful interval of grace when anyone who puts their faith in Jesus will receive God’s mercy and forgiveness. But we need to understand the church clock will stop ticking sometime in the future. When? Look at Romans 11:25 again. When the full number of Gentiles has come in. That is, when the last individual of “God’s elect” is added to the Church. BOOM! That’s it, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, the Father will say to His Son, “Go, collect your Bride.” Jesus will come to gather His church, His Bride and take us to his Father’s House for the Wedding Party. That’s what we often call the rapture of the church; we will be snatched out of here. That’s what Paul means when he writes in I Thessalonians 4:17, “We who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.” Whew! I get excited just thinking about it!!!(5)

Source: http://jewishroots.net/library/prophecy/daniel/daniel-9-24-27/gap-in-between-69-and-70.html


Quasar92

My question remains unanswered.

 

[Quasar92]

Re. typo, no problem, I can relate to vision issues myself.

I'm very familiar with the passages you cited. There is still nothing that answers the question: Why, (with the brief exception of Irenaeus and Hippolytus who posited a gap) in historical true Christian Church enduring orthodoxy before the 19th century, is a gap otherwise not found?

There are more than 300 OT prophecies Jesus fulfilled in the NT, It is not unreasonable for one to exist between Dan.9:26 and 27. It happens to be the Church age taking place now.

Here are a few in the following:

They said He would be:

1. "Sold" for 30 pieces of silver [Zech.11:12; fulfilled in Mt.26:31-56].

2. Forsaken by His disciples [Zech.13:7; fulfilled in Mt.26:31-56].

3. Mocked [Ps.22:7-8; fulfilled in Mt.26:67-68; 27:31-44].

4. Spat on [Isa.50:6; fulfilled in Mt.26:67; 27:30 .

5. Beaten [Isa.50:6; fulfilled in Mt.26:67-68; 27:26-30 .

6. Executed without having a bone broken [Ex.12:46; Ps.34:20; fulfilled in Jn.19:33-36].

7. Thirsty during His execution [Ps.22:15; fulfilled in Jn.19:28].

8. Given vinegar to quench His thirst [Ps.69:21; fulfilled in Mt.27:34].

9. Considered a lawbreaker ["transgressor"] - [Isa.53:12; fulfilled in Mt.27:38].

10. "Cut off [executed], but not for Himself" 69 X 7 years after the command to rebuild Jerusalem [Dan.9:24-26; fulfilled in Rom.5:6 and 1 Pet.3:18].

11. Buried in a rich man's tomb [Isa.53:9; fulfilled in Mt.27:57-60.

12. Raised from the dead [Isa.53:9-10; fulfilled in Mt.28:1-20 .

The above prophecies were made between 500 to 1,500 years before Christ was born - and all of them were perfectly fulfilled and recorded in the New Testament.


Quasa92r

 

[Quasar92]

My question remains unanswered.

Yes, your questions have been answered. The concept you have concocted in post 75 is far off the mark and thoroughly refuted by the Scriptures previously posted.


Quasar92

 

[jgr]

Yes, your questions have been answered. The concept you have concocted in post 75 is far off the mark and thoroughly refuted by the Scriptures previously posted.


Quasar92

Epistle of Barnabas, circa 100 AD

Barnabas 16:6
But let us enquire whether there be any temple of God. There is; in
the place where he himself undertakes to make and finish it. For it
is written And it shall come to pass, when the week is being
accomplished, the temple of God shall be built gloriously in the
name of the Lord.

Barnabas 16:7
I find then that there is a temple, How then shall it be built in
the name of the Lord? Understand ye. Before we believed on God, the
abode of our heart was corrupt and weak, a temple truly built by
hands; for it was full of idolatry and was a house of demons, because
we did whatsoever was contrary to God.

Barnabas 16:8
But it shall be built in the name of the Lord. Give heed then that
the temple of the Lord may be built gloriously.

Barnabas 16:9
How? Understand ye. By receiving the remission of our sins and
hoping on the Name we became new, created afresh from the beginning.
Wherefore God dwelleth truly in our habitation within us. How? The
word of his faith, the calling of his promise, the wisdom of the
ordinances, the commandments of the teaching, He Himself prophesying
in us, He Himself dwelling in us, opening for us who had been in
bondage unto death the door of the temple, which is the mouth, and
giving us repentance leadeth us to the incorruptible temple.

Barnabas 16:10
For he that desireth to be saved looketh not to the man, but to Him
that dwelleth and speaketh in him, being amazed at this that he has
never at any time heard these words from the mouth of the speaker,
nor himself ever desired to hear them. This is the spiritual temple
built up to the Lord.


Based on the descriptions within v. 16 and the accompanying verses, the week in v. 16 can be none other than Daniel's 70th. Barnabas (or the writer of the epistle) associates it with the construction of a spiritual temple, the remission of sins, the indwelling of God, et al; all of which is accomplished and completed by Christ within the week.

This is the earliest known post-apostolic commentary on Daniel's 70th week.