If you feel it's OK to cook on Sabbath, why?

[A_Thinker]

More importantly, if the adherence to the law is not required in the second covenant why does the Spirit lead us to follow laws like do not murder or commit adultery, anyway? The Spirit wouldn't lead us to do things if they are no longer necessary, right?

The goal has changed ... we are no longer striving to live our lives according to a set of requirements.

We are learning and growing to be more and more like our Father ...

P.S. Not an Adventist ...

 

[Sylvester]

Galatians 5

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whateverc you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

I take that as a yes.

You haven't answered my follow up question. Wouldn't it mean that they also encompass things like not worshiping other Gods, not making idols, not taking God's name in vain, not working on Sabbaths?

 

[Sylvester]

The goal has changed ... we are no longer striving to live our lives according to a set of requirements.

We can never earn heaven through our works. Our righteousness is dirt compared to God's righteousness. We can only go to heaven by God's grace. I think we're on the same page regarding that.

1.
But are you sure it's correct to say we are no longer striving to live our lives according to a set of requirements? In the verses you quoted Paul urges the Galatians not to take part in the things he mentions in verse 19. If that's not a set of requirements then I don't know what is.

2
And Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15. Jesus says we'd keep His commandments if we love him. So again, I don't see how one can say adherence to law is no longer necessary.

We are learning and growing to be more and more like our Father ...

3
And what do we do when we grow to be more like our Father? We keep His laws better than before. If a thief finds Christ, he obeys the commandment "Thou Shall not steal".

P.S. Not an Adventist ...

Cool.

 

[A_Thinker]

But are you sure it's correct to say we are no longer striving to live our lives according to a set of requirements?

And Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15. Jesus says we'd keep His commandments if we love him. So again, I don't see how one can say adherence to law is no longer necessary.

Because Paul said adherence to the Law is no longer necessary ... (i.e. "we are not UNDER the Law", ... "we are DEAD to the Law", etc.).

I think that the separation between our opinions lies in our priorities of goals as children of God.

I say that our primary goal as a child of God is not "meeting a list of requirements", but rather, being a loving, relating, contributing member of God's family.

Following the OT Law was/is only a START of that journey, primarily designed to show us that we need to STRIVE to achieve God's will for our lives (i.e. that we are NOT YET FIT for His fellowship).

Having been convinced, by the Law, that we are not yet FIT for God's fellowship, ... we come to CHrist, and are received into His family ... with ALL that that encompasses.

Surely you can see that the real expectations of God for His children are MUCH DEEPER than what the OT Law requires ... and may be worked out, in our lives, in different ways than it was worked out at previous times.

For example, in the OT Law, it is described how a man may sell His daughter into indentured servitude (leviticus 21:7-11). Surely this is not the expectation of God for us at this time.

Fortunately, as believers, we are free to follow the Spirit, who will lead us into truth in all things, ... including the writing upon our hearts such expectations as you see in Galatians 5. And also, those teachings from the Prophets, and the books of Poetry, and finally, the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles.

If we follow the Spirit, we will meet ALL of God's expections for us as His children. OTOH, if we restrict ourselves to following any particular written code, ... we are apt to MISS much of what God desires for us.

 

[Dave-W]

Does your clarification relate to the topic at hand or were you just making sure incorrect statements are corrected?

A little bit of both, actually. Sometimes what we think was breaking the sabbath because one group said so; was not necessarily correct.

 

[Sylvester]

Because Paul said adherence to the Law is no longer necessary ... (i.e. "we are not UNDER the Law", ... "we are DEAD to the Law", etc.).

Paul says that because we cannot earn our salvation by keeping any laws. That’s why he says we are not under the law but under grace. So it’s clear he’s talking about how we get our salvation which is through grace alone. We’re on the same page on that.

He talks about that in Romans 6:14. In the next verse he mentions it doesn’t mean it’s OK to sin. Obviously that’s true. If you love God then you’ll try your best to live the way He wants you to live. It’ll be fake for me to say I love God but don’t want to follow the rules He’s made. That’s why Jesus says if we love Him we should keep His commandments. (1) Why do you think Jesus said that?

I think that the separation between our opinions lies in our priorities of goals as children of God.

I say that our primary goal as a child of God is not "meeting a list of requirements", but rather, being a loving, relating, contributing member of God's family.

Actually I don’t think I ever said our primary goal as a child of God is meeting a list of requirements. All I say is that as children of God we should love God and people with our all hearts. And if we love him, naturally we’ll try to live the way he has told us to live. Just like Jesus said.
It’s not like anyone can ever meet this ‘list of requirements’. If anything it just shows us how sinful we are and how hopeless we would be without His mercy and grace.

For example, in the OT Law, it is described how a man may sell His daughter into indentured servitude (leviticus 21:7-11). Surely this is not the expectation of God for us at this time.

I think you meant to type Exodus.
Those were civil codes for the country of Israel. That’s different from the Ten Commandments which is a set of moral laws. The civil code is only a subset of the moral law.

If we follow the Spirit, we will meet ALL of God's expections for us as His children. OTOH, if we restrict ourselves to following any particular written code, ... we are apt to MISS much of what God desires for us.

(2) What do you mean by meeting God’s expectation? Isn’t that adhering to the things he told us to do (do not kill, do not be angry with your brother without a cause, do not commit adultery, do not look at a women with lust, etc). If not, what do you mean by it? We should clear that up first.

 

[Sylvester]

A little bit of both, actually. Sometimes what we think was breaking the sabbath because one group said so; was not necessarily correct.

Well, my point is that they didn't break the Sabbath to begin with.

 

[A_Thinker]

That’s why Jesus says if we love Him we should keep His commandments. (1) Why do you think Jesus said that?

Because following Jesus' commandments is the best way to be a loving, relating, contributing member of God's family.

We should note, however, that many of Jesus' commandments are NOT FOUND in the Old Testament Law ... the admonition that we ought always pray, for example. So looking to a written code of Law will never be adequate. We must look to the Law written in our hearts by the Spirit.

Actually I don’t think I ever said our primary goal as a child of God is meeting a list of requirements. All I say is that as children of God we should love God and people with our all hearts. And if we love him, naturally we’ll try to live the way he has told us to live. Just like Jesus said.

It’s not like anyone can ever meet this ‘list of requirements’. If anything it just shows us how sinful we are and how hopeless we would be without His mercy and grace.

I agree ...

What do you mean by meeting God’s expectation? Isn’t that adhering to the things he told us to do (do not kill, do not be angry with your brother without a cause, do not commit adultery, do not look at a women with lust, etc). If not, what do you mean by it? We should clear that up first.

ALL of what you said (i.e. following the Spirit will fulfill our keeping the spirit of the Law), ... but, also, following God in other circumstances, ... for instance, when Philip followed the Spirit's leading to make his way to evangelize the Ethiopian eunuch, or where Paul followed the Spirit's guidance to go to Macedonia to evangelize. There are plenty of Biblical examples (both OT and NT) of God's people following Spiritual guidance which is not found in the any written Law.

 

[woobadooba]

Read Mark 2:23-28

 

[Dave-W]

Read Mark 2:23-28

And what do you know of the back story of that incident?
Why did our Lord use that incident to justify His disciples before that group of Pharisees?

Galatians says that He was born "under the Law." (4.4)
That means if He ever broke the Law of Moses in any way He was invalidated as our perfect sacrifice for sins, and we are still lost.

 

[Sylvester]

Because following Jesus' commandments is the best way to be a loving, relating, contributing member of God's family.

Absolutely. So do you agree that we can say that obedience to laws is necessary now too? Not because we can ever gain our salvation from it but because keeping God’s laws is obviously the good thing to do. And it also shows if we really do love Him. Jesus himself said it. (1) Are we in agreement on this then?

We should note, however, that many of Jesus' commandments are NOT FOUND in the Old Testament Law ... the admonition that we ought always pray, for example. So looking to a written code of Law will never be adequate. We must look to the Law written in our hearts by the Spirit.

I totally agree with that.

ALL of what you said (i.e. following the Spirit will fulfill our keeping the spirit of the Law), ... but, also, following God in other circumstances, ... for instance, when Philip followed the Spirit's leading to make his way to evangelize the Ethiopian eunuch, or where Paul followed the Spirit's guidance to go to Macedonia to evangelize. There are plenty of Biblical examples (both OT and NT) of God's people following Spiritual guidance which is not found in the any written Law.

Absolutely. We should always follow the Holy Spirit's leading.