If you feel it's OK to cook on Sabbath, why?

[bloodygrace]

So you are saying we are still all dead in our sins and the writers of the NT were liars.

Really?

No, I'm saying those who force law on believers are liars.

 

[bloodygrace]

Of course, the Pharisees would have said that about their primary opponent. Didn't they also call him a glutton and a drunkard?

Which incidents do you think are examples of Jesus breaking the law?

Jesus broke the Sabbath so many times and purposely chose that day to do most of his miracles of healing. He even justified his own disciples for breaking it when they didn't prepare the way they were supposed to.

 

[bloodygrace]

Whether they did nor not does not affect our Salvation.
If our Lord broke the Law in any way, His death is invalid and we are still lost.

He broke the letter of the law by saying he was God! That was blasphemy according to the law. Now Jesus was God but he still violated the letter.

 

[Dave-W]

He broke the letter of the law by saying he was God! That was blasphemy according to the law. Now Jesus was God but he still violated the letter.

Which specific statute of the 613 did He violate?
Since it was true, how could it be blasphemy?

 

[bloodygrace]

Which specific statute of the 613 did He violate?
Since it was true, how could it be blasphemy?

You don't know the law and it is so obvious. Try reading the ones in stone and maybe you'll figure it out.

 

[Grace2022]

Note: I believe this issue pales in importance compared to other issues such as loving God and others with all our hearts. But at the same time, this issue does pop up from time to time because it's an everyday life thing and I've seen it get debated(more like argued) in my church. I stay out of it but then I realized I need to allow myself to be challenged and think things through rather than just stay out of such discussion.

I guess, in this thread I'd debate and answer questions which are raised. It'll be a good way to see if I know what I believe in and if my beliefs are truly consistent. And if someone makes a good point here that I don't know the answer to, I'll look to ask others in my 'camp' on what they think about that. I'm also thinking of asking what others think about this in the forum section for traditional Adventists.

I could do this in with my church members too but people from both sides tend to get very emotional very quickly. So I think this is better.

So then, if you feel it's OK to cook on Sabbath, why is that?

Hi
my routine is always church on Sunday then we cook and eat Sunday roast and pudding. I see nothing wrong in that, we do have to eat after all. I don't do anything strenuous on Sundays, it is a day to be quiet, relaxed.
I assume and hope I am not doing anything wrong!

 

[Dave-W]

You don't know the law and it is so obvious.

Actually I do, and that is your problem.

Try reading the ones in stone and maybe you'll figure it out.

In addition to the 10 in stone there are 603 others. According to James if you break even one of them you have broken all 613.

So tell me again which Law did our Lord break? (the answer is "none.")

 

[Sylvester]

The first covenant was based upon adherence to Law, ... like not cooking on Sunday ...

The second covenant is based upon GRACE (i.e. God's undeserved GIFT to us) ... to ALL who believe on His name.

Your point raises one or two issues but I think the issue that's relevant to this thread is this:
If it's true that adherence to the law (like not cooking on Sabbath) is not required anymore since the second covenant is based upon grace, wouldn't it logically mean it's OK to commit murder, commit, adultery, worship idols, etc. since they are also part of the law?

... like not cooking on Sunday ...

Sunday? You've got me curious. Are you a Seventh-Day Adventist? I just assumed you were since I posted this thread in this section of the forum.

 

[Sylvester]

Jesus broke the Sabbath so many times and purposely chose that day to do most of his miracles of healing. He even justified his own disciples for breaking it when they didn't prepare the way they were supposed to.

How is it breaking the law to perform miracles on Sabbath? Only a Pharisee would consider such things to be work. It seems the things he commanded us not to do on Sabbath are works which we do for our livelihoods (Ex 34:21; Ex 16:25-30) and chores (Ex 16:23). Jesus pointed out how the priests do temple work on Sabbath but they are guiltless. We even have a record of an incident where God instructed the Israelites to go to war continuously for 7 days which would have contained a Sabbath. I don't see anywhere where God outlawed such things in the first place. The disciples didn't break the law by picking the corns. That's like saying it's wrong to eat a banana on Sabbath since you have to peel it, bite it, chew it and swallow it. The only way the corn incident could be called breaking the law is if picking some corns to eat is the same as harvesting. I just don't see how that's harvesting. I'm not surprised the Pharisees thought it was breaking the law though. The Pharisees had such turned the Sabbath into such a restrictive thing. No wonder Jesus did His miracles on Sabbaths again and again to drive home His point. The Sabbath of the Pharisees was not the Sabbath that God had given humans.

He broke the letter of the law by saying he was God! That was blasphemy according to the law. Now Jesus was God but he still violated the letter.

It was blasphemy for God to say He was God? Jesus is God. What else was He supposed to say? Which blasphemy law in the Bible did you base your statement on? Can you share it?

Finally, here's a verse which makes it very clear Jesus never sinned: 1 Peter 2:22 - Who(Jesus) did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth.

 

[A_Thinker]

If it's true that adherence to the law (like not cooking on Sabbath) is not required anymore since the second covenant is based upon grace, wouldn't it logically mean it's OK to commit murder, commit, adultery, worship idols, etc. since they are also part of the law?

No, ... because the Spirit does not lead us to such ...

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against these there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23

 

[Dave-W]

How is it breaking the law to perform miracles on Sabbath? Only a Pharisee would consider such things to be work.

Wrong. The house of Shammai considered practicing medicine (healing thru purely human means) to be prohibited work, and miraculous healing fell under practicing medicine. Interestingly, house of Hillel did NOT consider medicine "work."

 

[Dave-W]

Jesus broke the Sabbath so many times and purposely chose that day to do most of his miracles of healing. He even justified his own disciples for breaking it when they didn't prepare the way they were supposed to.

Not so. Jesus NEVER broke the Law in any way shape or form. The New Covenant did not take effect until HE died.

According to Galatians, He was born a Jew "under the law." So to break the Sabbath was a sin, and not only does Hebrews tell us He never sinned; but if He had sinned, his sacrificial death would have been invalidated. (meaning we are still all lost in our sins)

 

[Dave-W]

Finally, here's a verse which makes it very clear Jesus never sinned: 1 Peter 2:22 - Who(Jesus) did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth.

Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

 

[A_Thinker]

Not so. Jesus NEVER broke the Law in any way shape or form. The New Covenant did not take effect until HE died.

According to Galatians, He was born a Jew "under the law." So to break the Sabbath was a sin, and not only does Hebrews tell us He never sinned; but if He had sinned, his sacrificial death would have been invalidated. (meaning we are still all lost in our sins)

So ... Jesus was faced with conflicting interpretations of God's Law regarding the Sabbath, ... and thus, gave His own (i.e. THE interpretation) for the Sabbath ...

"The Sabbath was made for man ... not man for the Sabbath."
"It is good to DO GOOD on the Sabbath."

 

[Dave-W]

So ... Jesus was faced with conflicting interpretations of God's Law regarding the Sabbath, ... and thus, gave His own (i.e. THE interpretation) for the Sabbath ...

You guys REALLY need to read more on Shammai and Hillel.

 

[Sylvester]

Hey, I'll number my points so that it's easy to refer to them when we discuss them.

No, ... because the Spirit does not lead us to such ...

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against these there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23

1.
Just to clarify, in an earlier reply I mentioned a few laws from the ten commandments and asked if it's OK to go against them since the second covenant is not based on adherence to the law. For that you've quoted Gal 5:22, 23. So from that I take that your view is that since the fruits of the Spirit are things like love, kindness, faithfulness, etc. they encompass things like not murdering or stealing. Correct? Sounds good. But wouldn't it mean that they also encompass things like not worshiping other Gods, not making idols, not taking God's name in vain, not working on Sabbaths?

2.
More importantly, if the adherence to the law is not required in the second covenant why does the Spirit lead us to follow laws like do not murder or commit adultery, anyway? The Spirit wouldn't lead us to do things if they are no longer necessary, right?

3.
I think you missed the second section of my previous reply. Are you a Seventh-Day Adventist?

 

[Sylvester]

Hi
my routine is always church on Sunday then we cook and eat Sunday roast and pudding. I see nothing wrong in that, we do have to eat after all. I don't do anything strenuous on Sundays, it is a day to be quiet, relaxed.
I assume and hope I am not doing anything wrong!

You've mentioned Sunday several times. So I assume you're not an Adventist. In that case, whether or not it's OK to cook on Sabbath doesn't even come into the picture I think. Because Sabbath cooking issue is only a subset of the larger issue of whether Sabbath keeping is necessary at all. And if the Sabbath is on Saturday or Sunday.

So yeah. I don't think it's my place to comment on your Sunday routine. Perhaps, if there's anything you want to ask about the traditional Adventist beliefs regarding Sabbath, you can do so. That's why I created this thread after all. I want to know if I am basing my beliefs on the Bible or on Adventist tradition.

 

[Sylvester]

Wrong. The house of Shammai considered practicing medicine (healing thru purely human means) to be prohibited work, and miraculous healing fell under practicing medicine. Interestingly, house of Hillel did NOT consider medicine "work."

Interesting info. I don't know about the different types of Pharisees. I should read about them in some reputed book some time. I think it'll be good to get a better understanding of how Israel was back in the day when Jesus was there.

Does your clarification relate to the topic at hand or were you just making sure incorrect statements are corrected?

 

[Sylvester]

Hey, sorry not sure how I haven't replied you yet. I just noticed it while trying to locate another reply.

We put perishable food in the fridge - and do not turn off the A/C or the Fridge on Friday evening.
We also warm up food on Sabbath.
We make our beds, put away clothes etc on Sabbath morning, wash hands etc. The heater is on in the winter and the A/C in the summer - even on Friday evening and Sabbath. And of course... drive the car to church which is also heated in the winter and cooled in the summer with lights on in the church power to the sound-system etc.

And while some may choose not do do those things - that is what we choose to do. And it takes no time or focus at all away from having the day as a day of rest, worship, sharing the Gospel, avoiding secular activities etc.

Yes, that's true. I do those things too. I don't think it's appropriate for me to comment on what others chose to do. Since this thread is about the Sabbath stuff and cooking in particular, I'll talk about it k? I've always wondered about heating food in tropical climate like where I live. I can see how heating food is necessary in areas where it freezes up overnight. But at our home, I'm like "Why heat it, mom? It's fine already." But I've noticed the vast majority of the people find it hard to eat food that's gone cold. I think I have trouble fully relating to how they feel because I've never really needed food to be warm for me to enjoy it. So yeah, I have to give the benefit of doubt to heating food.

Oh and my brother once made a comment which adds weight to your point of view. I'll share it here. He was heating food in the microwave oven and I asked why he's doing it on Sabbath. He was like "Well, we cool food in the fridge so I'm simply doing the opposite in the microwave oven." We both laughed. His focus was mainly on the joke and wasn't thinking about a debate but it got me thinking. So yeah, I see that the other view isn't without its merits.

But my issue is that if we can heat food for a few minutes, why not make an omelette while we're at it? When we make noodles at home we don't use vegetables. So it takes me under 10 minutes to make noodles. So why would it be an issue to do that? After all, we warm our food, make our beds, the heater is on in the winter (ok we don't have winter here. Sigh), the AC is on in the summer, we drive our car to church, we use the sound-system, etc.

On what basis do you make a distinction? Would you say there's a distinction between heating and cooking since we're making food palatable in one situation but actually creating/cooking food in the other situation? I got the thought just while typing it. I need to think about it but I thought I'd just put it out there. But one issue I can think of is the instruction given to the Israelites where they shouldn't light fire on Sabbaths. I think it's generally thought to be related to cooking. So there's that.

 

[A_Thinker]

Just to clarify, in an earlier reply I mentioned a few laws from the ten commandments and asked if it's OK to go against them since the second covenant is not based on adherence to the law. For that you've quoted Gal 5:22, 23. So from that I take that your view is that since the fruits of the Spirit are things like love, kindness, faithfulness, etc. they encompass things like not murdering or stealing. Correct?

Galatians 5

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whateverc you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.