Who Is Jesus?

[dreadnought]

There are those, like me, who believe Jesus is God in flesh. Others believe he is the Son of God, a separate being.

This scripture would seem to suggest that I am right:

"Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and his name shall be called Emmanuel"
(which means, God with us). Matt 1:23 RSV

However, I suspect there is biblical evidence that I am wrong.

What do you think?

 

[Aimz]

The only redeemer of God’s elect is our Lord Jesus Christ who being the eternal Son of God became man and so was and continues to be God and man in two distinct natures and one person forever.

Christ the Son of God became man by taking to himself a true body and a reasonable soul being conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit in the womb of the virgin Mary and born of her yet without sin.

Christ as our redeemer executes the offices of a prophet, priest and king both in his estate of humiliation and exaltation.

 

[Aimz]

Answers 21, 22 and 23 in the Westminster Shorter Catechism.

Proofs for 21: John 14:6, Acts 4:12, 1 Timothy 2:5-6, Psalms 2:7, Matthew 3:17, 17:5, John 1:18, Isaiah 9:6, Matthew 1:23, John 1:14, Galatians 4:4, Acts 1:11, Hebrews 7:24-25.

Proofs for 22: Philippians 2:7, Hebrews 2:14, 17, Luke 1:27, 31, 35, 2 Corinthians 5:21, Hebrews 4:15, 7:26, 1 John 3:5.

Proofs for 23: Deuteronomy 18:18, Acts 2:33, 3:22-23, Hebrews 1:1-2, Hebrews 4:14-15, 5:5-6, Isaiah 9:6-7, Luke 1:32-33, John 18:37, 1 Corinthians 15:25.

Sorry it took some time for me to type them up.

 

[SkyWriting]

There are those, like me, who believe Jesus is God in flesh. Others believe he is the Son of God, a separate being.This scripture would seem to suggest that I am right:"Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and his name shall be called Emmanuel"
(which means, God with us). Matt 1:23 RSV
However, I suspect there is biblical evidence that I am wrong.What do you think?

Jesus prayed to the Father and referred to Him continually.
I consider Jesus the authority on the subject.

63 Bible verses about God the Father

 

[dreadnought]

Jesus prayed to the Father and referred to Him continually.
I consider Jesus the authority on the subject.

63 Bible verses about God the Father

Maybe, but I would argue that when he prayed to the Father, he did it for our benefit, not his - he was showing us what to do.

 

[SkyWriting]

Maybe, but I would argue that when he prayed to the Father, he did it for our benefit, not his - he was showing us what to do.

Sure. And which verses would support your argument?

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Hosea 11:1
When Israel was a youth I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son.

Luke 3:22
...and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."

John 5:17-18
But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

 

[dreadnought]

Sure. And which verses would support your argument?

Not everything is covered in the Bible. I don't put my hand on a hot stove, but no Bible verses that I am aware of support that.

 

[SkyWriting]

Not everything is covered in the Bible. I don't put my hand on a hot stove, but no Bible verses that I am aware of support that.

You are welcome to cite most any sources for your argument.

John 20:17
Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

Psalm 2:7
"I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.


By claiming Jesus and the father are not seperate,
you did put your hand in a painful place. I'm
wondering what instructions you are reading?

 

[dreadnought]

You are welcome to cite most any sources for your argument.

John 20:17
Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

Psalm 2:7
"I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.

I already gave you a verse, Matthew 1:23, "God with us."

 

[Aimz]

There are three persons in the Godhead. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and these three are One God the same in substance equal in power and glory.
Matthew 3:16-17, Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14, 1 Peter 1:2, Psalms 45:6, John 1:1, John 17:5, Acts 5:3-4, Romans 9:5, Colossians 2:9, Jude 24-25.

 

[dreadnought]

There are three persons in the Godhead. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and these three are One God the same in substance equal in power and glory.
Matthew 3:16-17, Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14, 1 Peter 1:2, Psalms 45:6, John 1:1, 17:5, Acts 5:3-4, Romans 9:5, Colossians 2:9, Jude 24-25.

I would argue that God simultaneously is a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as a man can simultaneously be a father, husband, son, banker, and whatever.

 

[Aimz]

Did you read all of the verses that fast!?

I would argue that God simultaneously is a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as a man can simultaneously be a father, husband, son, banker, and whatever.

 

[com7fy8]

I suspect there is biblical evidence that I am wrong.

You do? Why?

It is possible to use scripture to argue what is not true.

But Jesus Himself says,

"'For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father.'" (John 5:22-23)

If God wants us to honor Jesus just as we honor our Heavenly Father, this supports that Jesus is God . . . divine. He is God, meaning how by His nature He is the same as our Father.

But what matters is how He is, in His nature . . . not only what label to put on Him.

Anyone can say Jesus is "God", but do we become more and more how Jesus is, in His love? We need to know how Jesus is, by even becoming more and more how He is in the nature of real love >

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

 

[Drick]

Jesus is Christ. Christ is a human made perfect through God (whether that be because he is God, or is the son of God, or whatever). Gods always double as a metaphor for the future, or the natural consequences of sin/irresponsibility, etc.

Therefore, Christ is the one that does not distort and dilute reality, or anything of a similarly deceptive. Rather, Christ perfectly maneuvers and commands reality, a practice that Abraham and Moses and the Prophets discovered beforehand, but that Christ perfected.

And further, if we are to call ourselves "Christian", we must also embody this. That means accepting responsibility for any evils that come our way, whether they be foreign or of our own making (it's usually the latter). But it also means that we must use any wisdom we can acquire to master reality. A practical modern example could be debt; If you know you don't have the resources nor the means to acquire the resources to pay off a debt you owe, never put yourself in that situation where you owe excessive amounts of money. If you have a high libido, don't leave yourself alone with anyone that puts you at potential risk of sexual misconduct. If you are an alcoholic, do not spend your time with drinkers. This is Christ.

 

[JackRT]

There are those, like me, who believe Jesus is God in flesh. Others believe he is the Son of God, a separate being.

This scripture would seem to suggest that I am right:

"Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and his name shall be called Emmanuel"
(which means, God with us). Matt 1:23 RSV

However, I suspect there is biblical evidence that I am wrong.

What do you think?

First, the actual word used in the original Hebrew does not carry the meaning of "virgin" but rather of "young woman". Matthew was using a Greek translation known as the Septuagint which used the word virgin in error. There is nothing at all unusual about a young woman conceiving.

Second, this prophesy was not of an event five or six hundred years in the future but of an event only months away.

Third, Jesus was never named Immanuel.

Matthew writing 80 to 90 years after the birth of Jesus was no doubt aware of Jewish efforts to discredit Jesus by questioning the legitimacy of his birth. To him this was the perfect opportunity to use the literary technique of haggadic midrash to put to rest these accusations.

It is interesting to note that Paul does not mention Jesus' birth at all except to note that he was a descendant of David "according to the flesh". Neither Mark nor John bother to mention the birth. Luke does but contradicts Matthew in a number of ways.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I would argue that God simultaneously is a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as a man can simultaneously be a father, husband, son, banker, and whatever.

That's Sabellianism, and it is heresy.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Jesus is Christ. Christ is a human made perfect through God (whether that be because he is God, or is the son of God, or whatever). Gods always double as a metaphor for the future, or the natural consequences of sin/irresponsibility, etc.

Therefore, Christ is the one that does not distort and dilute reality, or anything of a similarly deceptive. Rather, Christ perfectly maneuvers and commands reality, a practice that Abraham and Moses and the Prophets discovered beforehand, but that Christ perfected.

And further, if we are to call ourselves "Christian", we must also embody this. That means accepting responsibility for any evils that come our way, whether they be foreign or of our own making (it's usually the latter). But it also means that we must use any wisdom we can acquire to master reality. A practical modern example could be debt; If you know you don't have the resources nor the means to acquire the resources to pay off a debt you owe, never put yourself in that situation where you owe excessive amounts of money. If you have a high libido, don't leave yourself alone with anyone that puts you at potential risk of sexual misconduct. If you are an alcoholic, do not spend your time with drinkers. This is Christ.

No.

Christ is the eternally begotten Son of God, the very Word of God, made flesh. Begotten of the Father before all ages, begotten, not made, of the same being with the Father. He is true God of true God, Light of Light. Both God and man in perfect unity of His Person, without confusion or separation of the natures. Who was born of the virgin Mary, Theotokos, by the power of the Holy Spirit. He is Lord and Christ; who suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, buried, and dead, who descended into hell, who rose from the dead on the third day, ascended into the heavens and i seated at the right hand of the Father in glory. From whence He will come again to judge the living and the dead, and His kingdom will have no end.

That's who Jesus is.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[dreadnought]

Did you read all of the verses that fast!?

No.

 

[dreadnought]

You do? Why?

It is possible to use scripture to argue what is not true.

But Jesus Himself says,

"'For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father.'" (John 5:22-23)

If God wants us to honor Jesus just as we honor our Heavenly Father, this supports that Jesus is God . . . divine. He is God, meaning how by His nature He is the same as our Father.

But what matters is how He is, in His nature . . . not only what label to put on Him.

Anyone can say Jesus is "God", but do we become more and more how Jesus is, in His love? We need to know how Jesus is, by even becoming more and more how He is in the nature of real love >

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

Jesus is referred to in the Bible, sometimes, as the Son of God. Some might argue you can't be the Son of God and God in flesh at the same time.

 

[dreadnought]

That's Sabellianism, and it is heresy.

-CryptoLutheran

I can't believe God is three beings.