Formal Debate is located here:
Formal Debate --"Does Matthew take Isaiah 7:14 out of context?"
Formal Debate --"Does Matthew take Isaiah 7:14 out of context?"
I appreciate Tree of Life setting out the historical context so clearly, but as for the argument...
"A virgin will conceive and bear the child Immanuel - God Is With Us (Isaiah 7:14). Before the child comes to maturity the Syro-Ephramite crisis will dissolve (Isaiah 7:15-16)."
This certainly does not apply to Jesus.
"... And the child will be a Davidic king"
This certainly does not apply to Jesus. Even to try to stretch this point, it just doesn't apply in the given context of having to deal with the Assyrians.
"Matthew understands Jesus to be the fulfillment of this promise."
Tree of Life's own argument seems pretty close to asserting that Matthew was legitimately mistaken about the prophecy.
Whether Matthew was sincere in taking the prophecy out of context does not affect whether it is taken out of context, i.e. the topic of the debate.
The debate has now concluded (I've posted my concluding post - it should be up any time). I'm curious to know everyone's thoughts!
Hose 11:1-2 is my favorite example of Matthew's blatant quote mining. Not only could not the complete thought be about Jesus, but how would anyone read those verses and conclude that it was a prophecy at all? It's merely a complaint about Israel's behavior.New here. Saw this thread and it looks interesting. I support the position that Matthew took Isaiah 7:14 out of context. Nihilist Virus covered the salient points well. I would like to add in support that Matthew has a habit of taking OT quotes out of context.
For example, Matt. 2:14, 15 says, "So (Joseph) got up, took the child (Jesus) and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: “Out of Egypt I called my son.”"
However, the full quote from Hosea 11:1-2 is as follows, “When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son. But the more they were called, the more they went away from me. They sacrificed to the Baals."
How can this portion refer to Jesus? Hosea 11:2 would positively preclude him from being the person referred to in Matt. 2:15. If Hosea was misquoted, why not Isaiah?