Suffer Not a Woman to Teach a Man

[SkyWriting]

The roles are kind of reversed today, which is causing all kinds of havoc...

9And He has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ 10as a plan for thefullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together inChrist.

7Consider what I am saying, for the Lord will give you insight into all things. 8Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David, as proclaimed by my gospel,

6In the same way, urge the younger men to be self-controlled. 7Ineverything, show yourself to be an example by doing good works. Inyour teaching show integrity, dignity, 8and wholesome speech that is above reproach, so that anyone who opposes us will be ashamed to have nothing bad to say about us.

12 In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you.
For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

 

[SkyWriting]

Very well said, again. Thank you. That is the problem I have on my job. I have a Christian supervisor who is a woman and I see her having two responses. When she speaks to our employer she is submissive. But as a supervisor she treats everyone like a mother. I believe this is why sons rebel from their mothers because mothers do not understand what it means to be a man. Likewise the men under her supervision resent being treated like children. And she wants us to talk like women, although she does say it that way. I also think this is another turnoff for pagan men when they hear Christian men talking like women with too much concern for sensitivity to other people's feelings.

So she should treat them like she would wish to be treated? Go figure.

 

[AlexDTX]

Rules treating women different from men are blasphemy.
Let's assume some of my neighbors are women, just for argument.
Please explain why I am wrong.

Matthew 19:19 Honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself.'
Luke 6:31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
Galatians 5:14 The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
What Does the Bible Say About Neighbors?

Sorry, your reasoning is wrong. Yes, it is true that we are to honor parents and love our neighbors as our selves, but honor and love are not the issue. The issue is God ordained roles. The topic is women as authorities over men. Roles are like tools. Tools have purpose and function. Can tools be used in ways contrary to their function? Yes, but sometimes to the damage of the tool. Years ago I was working in a gym and I brought my own tools to do the job. One of the of co-workers volunteered to help. She chose a one of my chisels and used it as a screw driver. By doing so she chipped and ruined the blade of the chisel. I was infuriated. She was able to unscrew the object, but the chisel was ruined.

Women were designed to help men, not the other way around. Women were created to be mothers and nurturers of children. Men were designed to be protectors and providers. That being said, the design was abused at day one. Adam failed to protect Eve in stopping her from eating the forbidden fruit. Likewise, Eve took authority that was not hers in trying the forbidden fruit. With the roles used in the wrong way, the world fell into destruction.

However, the design of God has not changed, and we are to labor to abide in that design. Meanwhile, Satan and the wicked men of this world know better what the design of God is than the Church who is more often influenced by the world than the Word, while the evil of the world deliberately destroys that design.

 

[AlexDTX]

Are you saying married women can't be pastors but single women can?

Oh, no. I think the entire pastoral system is un-biblical. Pastoring is a temporary role just as all the other ministry gifts, since there is only one Shepherd (Pastor) of our souls who has the permanent job: Jesus. As a temporary function any woman or man that is gifted in such abilities will be used by God to meet the need. But you are speaking of the system of organized religion which is a business and franchise, and I am not. I am speaking of the work force first, marriage second, and the body of Christ third.

 

[AlexDTX]

And the whole nation of Israel was judged by a woman during 40 years of peace after a battle that she lead with Barack against a Canaanite king. That was Deborah.

Yes, but is a judge an administrator? No, a judge is one who settles disputes. It is a mistake to think of the book of Judges is the same as the books of Kings and Chronicles. When they cried out for an earthly king, the Lord told Samuel that they were rejecting Him who already was their King. Judges were raised by the King (God) to turn the people back to Him. Once that was done, according to Jewish interpretation, of which I agree, everyone did what was right because they knew what was right without the need of others to tell them or to enforce it. This is the rabbinical understanding of the phrase "every man did what was right in their own eyes." The current interpretation comes from civil and religious sources that want to re-inforce the belief that without them there would be violent anarchy. That simply is not true. When you count up the number of times the people strayed or rebelled from God in Judges it is exponentially worse under the kings.

 

[AlexDTX]

The Bible says a lot on this subject and gives reasons behind the reasons.

Eph 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

1 Tim 2:11-15 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

1 Corinthians 11:7-9 A man ought not to cover his head,bsince he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

Also the Bible does say that it is good for women to teach other women as you pointed out as women can teach other women better then a man can.

Titus 2:3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good.

Thank you for the verses.

 

[AlexDTX]

To many times we try to take something 2000 years ago and treat it as if its today. Back then it was so different. You can say the same for "Church". Today is nothing like it was back then. They would meet in houses and at times.. all would share. Yet.. todays CHURCH (all of us) its still one body. And yet I do agree.. men..somethings women other..

Today our Father is going to use ANYONE that simply says..HERE I AM LORD! His eyes are STILL looking

It is true that some circumstantial things have changed, but God does not change, nor the condition of humanity. Ecclesiastes tells us that there is nothing new under the sun, that which was is today that that which is today will be tomorrow. God has not changed his design, it is man that always trying to change His design. In truth there what has circumstantially changed is not that much, although we think much has changed because of the change in technology. But technology is not the human condition.

 

[AlexDTX]

RE: Social practices in the USA and the rising trend of women doing the work traditionally reserved to men:
ANOTHER THREAD!

Wrong. I wrote the OP in reference to a woman supervisor on my job. The social practices in the USA is this thread. It is the responses of the readers who bring it back to leadership in the Church.

As I pointed out to another response, equality is not the point. Roles and functions are. As I said to the other, tools can be used contrary to their design but the tool may be damaged as a result. There is neither male for female in Christ is a statement on equality for salvation in the context of the Jewish belief that they alone deserved salvation. It has nothing to do with roles and function.

 

[AlexDTX]

I agree that in general men where they are competent, should be in charge ,but there is not always a man available . As for traditional professions like the army ,navy ,and police women should rarely be promoted before a man .

However I must add that men's treatment of women at least here in Europe until recently meant that women could not place their confidence in men in high places ,so that must be rectified to restore what God's expectations of how both sexes can live in their created roles ,with respect and love .

Very well said, Robin. The lack of confidence goes back to Adam who failed to protect Eve in stopping her from eating the forbidden fruit.

I agree that there are times when a woman needs to step up when a man fails to do so, both in relationships and in the work force. Trust in competence is earned whether male or female.

But my concern is not the temporary need being fulfilled, but the design of God being undermined. There is a deliberate assault on that design by Satan and wicked people. The fruit of that assault is the emasculation of men and the destruction of the family as women forego marriage and motherhood for careers, money and power.

 

[AlexDTX]

9And He has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ 10as a plan for thefullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together inChrist.

7Consider what I am saying, for the Lord will give you insight into all things. 8Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David, as proclaimed by my gospel,

6In the same way, urge the younger men to be self-controlled. 7Ineverything, show yourself to be an example by doing good works. Inyour teaching show integrity, dignity, 8and wholesome speech that is above reproach, so that anyone who opposes us will be ashamed to have nothing bad to say about us.

12 In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you.
For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

Sky, I know you are responding to Neogaia, but you are not responding to the point. The point is the roles, not the golden rule.

 

[AlexDTX]

So she should treat them like she would wish to be treated? Go figure.

Still missing the point, Sky.

 

[AlexDTX]

@SkyWriting
You seem to regard equal and same as synonyms. A pound of lead is equal to a pound of marshmallows but that does not mean they are the same. The are the same weight, for sure, but that is all. What one can do with a pound of lead is totally different from what one can do with a pound of marshmallows. Equality in Christ is not the same as roles and functions in Christ. This what 1 Corinthians 12 is all about. Not everyone can be an eye, for where then is the hearing?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

it would be my position that this passage would refer to the church and not so much greater society.

as far as the cultural argument dealing with this passage, that would be interesting, knowing paul was well aware of debra, Huldah, and the prophesy of joel 2:28-29, for him to make such a rule.

 

[razzelflabben]

Yes, in marriage Peter said:

1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

But I speak of the workforce.

but notice the word "Likewise" what goes for the wife also goes for the husband...that is what Likewise means...more in a moment

 

[razzelflabben]

I do not understand this post at all !!

what are you confused about?

 

[SkyWriting]

You seem to regard equal and same as synonyms.

Where are you seeing "equal" or "same"?
I don't see your reference.

James 2:8
Matthew 22:40
Luke 6:31
Romans 13:8
Romans 13:10
Galatians 5:14
James 2:8
Mark 12:29-34
Romans 13:8-10
Galatians 5:13,14

 

[SkyWriting]

Still missing the point, Sky.

Which point?

James 2:8
Matthew 22:40
Luke 6:31
Romans 13:8
Romans 13:10
Galatians 5:14
James 2:8
Mark 12:29-34
Romans 13:8-10
Galatians 5:13,14

 

[SkyWriting]

Sky, I know you are responding to Neogaia, but you are not responding to the point. The point is the roles, not the golden rule.

Roles are for you to decide for yourself. No one else.
This covers all of scripture.

John 8:7
Luke 6:37
John 7:24
James 4:11-12
James 4:12 But who are you to judge your neighbor?
Romans 2:1-3 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges.
Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths...but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
Matthew 7:5
Titus 3:2-7

 

[SkyWriting]

Years ago I was working in a gym and I brought my own tools to do the job. One of the of co-workers volunteered to help. She chose a one of my chisels and used it as a screw driver. By doing so she chipped and ruined the blade of the chisel. I was infuriated. She was able to unscrew the object, but the chisel was ruined.

Gender is irrelevant, my son. I've had co-workers break my borrowed tools as well.
Your view that gender was involved is actually what caused your insult.
Had the lady been trained equally well, she would have returned your tool sharpened and cleaned.

 

[SkyWriting]

Adam failed to protect Eve in stopping her from eating the forbidden fruit. Likewise, Eve took authority that was not hers in trying the forbidden fruit.

We don't know that Adam was present, nor is it within your authority to judge Adams behavior.
Scripture is not for other people. It is written only for you.


John 8:7
Luke 6:37
John 7:24
James 4:11-12
James 4:12 But who are you to judge your neighbor?
Romans 2:1-3 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges.
Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths...but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
Matthew 7:5
Titus 3:2-7