Suffer Not a Woman to Teach a Man

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Followers4christ

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Greetings Alex.

I take the position that the teaching is not addressed to women in general but to wives, specifically because in agreeing to become a wife they would take on the role of reflecting the bride of Christ (i.e. the church), who is clearly subordinate to the Lord (Ephesians 5:23-24). The reason why this is not commonly understood is because most translations choose the word "woman" over "wife" in such passages, though the Greek could be translated either way.

A proper rendering of your passage, then, would be as follows:

"Let the wife learn in silence, with all subjection. But I suffer not a wife to teach nor usurp authority over [her] husband, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman (i.e. his wife) being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."

You see how much better the translation of wife fits in with the context? He's talking about wives usurping authority (over husbands). He then talks about Adam and Eve (the first husband and wife) to reference how she decided to teach her husband and things didn't go so well. And then mentions childbearing. Unmarried women are nowhere encouraged in scripture to bear children, thus this entire passage is talking about married women, as are several other passages on this same theme.

The verses you provided are towards wives I agree. But others are towards women in general not just towards wives:

1 Tim 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

1 Cor 14:34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.
 
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Neogaia777

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The verses you provided are towards wives I agree. But others are towards women in general not just towards wives:

1 Tim 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

1 Cor 14:34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.
Yeah, I think I have a bone to pick with Paul about that one...? Why does he say, "As the law says"... I thought we were not under law and were to get free from the bondage of law...?

I agree a woman shouldn't be leading a men's group, but if she is teaching a crowd of mostly women and only some men, maybe cause the men want to understand women and their wives, ect... or whatever...?

What do you think of men who like certain women preachers...? Is there something wrong with that...?

God Bless!
 
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Righttruth

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And why @Righttruth are women more limited in spiritual matters...? I think that's a load of crap...

God Bless!

Do you think that wisdom of Jesus to pick 12 male apostles and Paul's strictures on women and his pick of male assistants are a bunch of crap?
 
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Followers4christ

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Yeah, I think I have a bone to pick with Paul about that one...? Why does he say, "As the law says"... I thought we were not under law and were to get free from the bondage of law...?

I agree a woman shouldn't be leading a men's group, but if she is teaching a crowd of mostly women and only some men, maybe cause the men want to understand women and their wives, ect... or whatever...?

What do you think of men who like certain women preachers...? Is there something wrong with that...?

God Bless!


The Bible says that women can lead other women in Titus 2:3. But according to the Bible they can't teach men. I do not agree with women head pastors as they ignore the scriptures that they are supposed to be held accountable to.

God picked Paul to not only learn directly from Him but to also have a hand in writing the scriptures we have today. So if you have a "bone" to pick with Paul and what was written you might have a "bone" to pick with God. I know learning directly from Jesus and to having a hand in the holy scriptures is something that I am not worthy of nor are you. God choice Paul to write what God allowed him to write as I am sure God defends what was written in the Bible that has revealed Jesus to the countless generations.

Now let's remember Jesus himself said as the "law" says many times too. we live more on the spirit of the law not the legalistic penalty of the law as I understand it. The laws of Leviticus and Exodus is done away with and the penalty of the law as Jesus fulfilled them. But the spirit of the law still is there like the 10 commandments. The law said the physical act of adultery was punished by death, Jesus said to look on a woman to lust after her was adultery but the punishment was fulfilled on the cross to those who love Jesus. The same way where the physical act of murder was punished by death, but Jesus said to hate your brother was murder in your heart. Jesus fulfilled the punishments of the law by the blood sacrifice that needed to happen to cleanse us. We are no longer bound from them but to be a follower of Christ we must follow what was taught in the holy scriptures.

Titus 2:3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good.

Matt 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
 
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Blade

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To many times we try to take something 2000 years ago and treat it as if its today. Back then it was so different. You can say the same for "Church". Today is nothing like it was back then. They would meet in houses and at times.. all would share. Yet.. todays CHURCH (all of us) its still one body. And yet I do agree.. men..somethings women other..

Today our Father is going to use ANYONE that simply says..HERE I AM LORD! His eyes are STILL looking
 
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Mark Corbett

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I'm not surprised that some responded to this thread by arguing that women actually are allowed to teach and have authority over men in the church. I appreciate the attempts to explain how the egalitarian view is consistent with Scripture, but I do not believe these attempts succeed.

I wrote a thread back in June where I shared the basic Biblical evidence which has convinced me that women are not allowed to serve as Senior Pastors. I'll share a link to that thread and also one graphic from that thread which very briefly summarizes the type of evidence in it. I'm hoping that if anyone reads my OP (opening post) there, you will come back to this current thread to continue the discussion as my thread is pretty much inactive now and also I don't know how much time I will have to interact on this issue over the next couple of days. Anyways, here is the link:

What Does the Bible Say about Women Pastors?

Bible%2BWomen%2BPastors%2B1.jpg
 
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Ron Gurley

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Point 1: Male-female SPIRITS are seen EQUAL in the "eyes" of God.

Genesis 1:27
God created man(kind) in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Genesis 5:2
He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man(kind) in the day when THEY were created.

Matthew 19:4
And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female,

Point 2: God offers salvation EQUALLY to male and female.

John 3 as explained in Ephesians 2.

Point 3: God's marriage model is for husbands and wives, NOT for the single male and female sexes.

Genesis 2:24
For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they (husband and wife) shall become one flesh.

Matthew 19:5-6 (NASB)...Jesus:
and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

Point 4: Paul and Peter have given Godly guidelines of the SPIRITUAL and PRACTICAL relationships within the FAMILY.

Ephesians 5: 22-33: 6:1-4; 1 Peter 3:1-7

RE: Social practices in the USA and the rising trend of women doing the work traditionally reserved to men:
ANOTHER THREAD!
 
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Hidden In Him

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Are you saying married women can't be pastors but single women can?

Actually no, Samir, and thanks for the question. The only problem for married women would be in situations where it's their husband who needs to be corrected, because she would be in a position of needing to "usurp" or take authority over him, which would be in no way a good reflection of taking a subordinate role to her husband in emulation of the bride of Christ. This is why none of the twelve disciples whom Christ chose were women. But that does NOT mean it is impossible for women, married or not, to pastor. It just means they may face occasions where exercising the authority described in 1 Timothy 5:20, 2 Timothy 4:2 and Titus 1:13 will become complicated, and may require outside help, because it would be inappropriate for her to do so.

I could think of some modern situations where it seems to work well. Not that I agree with everything she teaches, but Joyce Meyer seems to have a solid relationship worked out with her husband to where she submits to his authority and yet ministers to millions of people. Not sure what Beth Moore's or Kay Arthur's situations are, but I'm sure there are other examples of it working well.
 
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Hidden In Him

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1 Tim 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

1 Cor 14:34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.

Thanks for your post. As I was saying in my initial response, every passage in which this matter is discussed ends up being poorly translated because they consistently render the Greek word incorrectly in these contexts. γυναικί in 1 Timothy 2:12 and γυναῖκες in 1 Corinthians 14:34 should be translated as wife and wives respectively, not "woman" and "women." This is why Paul ends 1 Corinthians 14:34 with the words "as the law says." This is a reference to Genesis 3:16, which again is a marriage context, the exact same one Paul refers to in 1 Timothy 2:13-15.
 
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AlexDTX

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I can only speak from my experience and what I've seen in my particular career. I work in a female dominated profession so is its kinda interesting to hear a womens point of view on things at times.

Probably the best manager I've had and the best environment I've been in as a worker was where their was a woman manager. She was a Christian and very good at her job. It was because of the relationship she had with her employees that made her into a leader. She respected valued and appreciated each one of us and didn't treat us like just a warm body to fill a need. We knew she would stand up for us as well. Very good Christian women as well as leader.


I've had a good n bad mangers between men and women and their wasn't anything that was gender specific that was the reason. Deborah had authority over men so their is biblical backing for women to be in authority.

I work nights and have quite a bit of independence in what i do but i always try and remember that no matter who i have as a manager, I'm there to serve god first.
It is obvious that it will always depend on the woman. In my case my surpervisor and I had a long talk to resolve the problem. She came to realize that she does not know how to be an authority over men. She only has two authority responses: submitted to an authority, that is the owner above her, and to treat men like children like a mother. This is what got me going to start the OP. She admitted she had bad relationships with men and does not know to speak to men with respect and appreciation while maintaining her position of authority in the work place.

As I said in the OP, I usually think if a woman can do the job, then no problem. But as I have been thinking through the OP with other readers and comments, I still see a problem that is destroying our society as women reject marriage and motherhood for careers.
 
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AlexDTX

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I am not able to quote scriptures but from what I understand i know there are many prophetess in the Old Testament. Women where not to chatter in church. But to ask their husband in privacy. men were also not allowed to Chatterr in church. And if they did not have a husband they would go to the priest. I believe this has to do with respect for the holy church. not to put down women at all but much respect was given too many women such as Ruth Rebecca and many women the children of Israel(Jacob) which included many holy women strong women. my point is you cannot pick up one verse without reading the whole Old testsment
You are right. Not only were there women prophets in the OT but in the NT as well. But a prophet is not a leader in the administrative sense. A prophet speaks on behalf of God as needed. And often the prophet is persecuted by the administrator.
 
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AlexDTX

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That's because it is true, that she says it best to the man when she says nothing at all or does this...

She can walk away, use body language, and looks and such, but she learns and grows best, and she's not supposed to try and teach him with words, anyway, and says it best to the man, a good man anyway, when "she says nothing at all", in that sense, there are other ways to communicate though, you know...

She should not stay with a bad abusive man though, some just won't learn by your (a woman's example) of submission, and will even use and abuse you...

But, a good man, that is really the best way to "say" it to him is what God, and Paul says... And will be showing the man respect, and a good man very much values and see's the kind of respect you show him, even and even most especially, when he knows he does not deserve it...

God Bless!
Yes, in marriage Peter said:

1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

But I speak of the workforce.
 
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AlexDTX

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Remember Elizabeth and Mary God found favor in them and was delighted. These two women God knew them before they were they. Were conceived. They both came from the levite tribe. Both were visited by an Angel Gabriel to spread a good word that God has found favor and glory in Both of them. God has all the respect for women.
Neither Mary nor Elizabeth were supervisors in work, nor were they authorities over their husband or groom to be. There is neither male nor female in Christ means that God has no respect of persons. The favor of God is upon all who trust Christ. That is not question of the OP. I speak of authority over men at work.
 
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fat wee robin

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Let me throw this at you and see how your feel about it. When I did a word study on the passage in question what I discovered is that Paul is instructing woman to NOT usurpe their new found authority over men. IOW"s don't take authority and power just because you now have power and authority you didn't have before but rather in submission wait for Me to open the door for you to minister as I have called you.

the same can be said for men....;)
I do not understand this post at all !!
 
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fat wee robin

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Very well said - for the Church. But what about Christian men and women in the work force?
I agree that in general men where they are competent, should be in charge ,but there is not always a man available . As for traditional professions like the army ,navy ,and police women should rarely be promoted before a man .

However I must add that men's treatment of women at least here in Europe until recently meant that women could not place their confidence in men in high places ,so that must be rectified to restore what God's expectations of how both sexes can live in their created roles ,with respect and love .
 
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