The-Doctor
Man with a scarf
What if you knew the day you would die? Does that answer your question?
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To the greeks foolishness and unto the jews a stumblingblock.
I used to have a mind for science.
But the mind of man cannot receive the things that be From GOD.
they can only be spiritually discerned.
But you are speak truth when you say many more are not believing in God
I mean look at how many did not in noahs days.
Might want to ponder that a bit.
Let he who would be wise become a fool unto the worlds wisdom.
I have “known” since I was 16 that religion was invented by humanity, rather than humanity being an invention of a supernatural god. I have lived a life in science, examining and explaining reality without reliance upon supernatural doctrine and justifications for religious beliefs. I do not, and never had, any inclination or reason to accept or believe that there is any supernatural aspect to human life. This expert from a recent essay by Andrew M. Haines in Ethika Politika, “The unmistakable finality we experience with new insights — and what we know we lack without them — points to something real beyond our minds.” describes something that I have never known, but that I have encountered in others in many different ways of expressions of faith and belief. It is either like the magician who performs a seemingly impossible magic trick, but there is the sure knowledge that it is a trick; or the scientist who understands and can manipulate extremely complex equations and you know that it is real and very rational, but it is beyond your capability to understand the train of thought and analysis that provides the very real conclusion. So I do not understand how one can accept that a contemporary supernatural world actually exists. Those that do believe must have a mental capacity for discerning that a supernatural deity exists that I, and many others, do not possess; or they create such belief within themselves through a stimulus of cultural beliefs and a desire to believe in something beyond themselves. Both of these possibilities cannot be correct. There is something supernatural that I cannot discern, or religion is just a cultural construct. And someone in my position has no way of discerning which one is correct, thus seeing no alternative to reality, and just a hodgepodge of religious theory within and between religions, I still agree with the conclusion of a 16 year old by back in 1953.
I have “known” since I was 16 that religion was invented by humanity, rather than humanity being an invention of a supernatural god.
I have lived a life in science, examining and explaining reality without reliance upon supernatural doctrine and justifications for religious beliefs.
I do not, and never had, any inclination or reason to accept or believe that there is any supernatural aspect to human life.
So I do not understand how one can accept that a contemporary supernatural world actually exists.
Both of these possibilities cannot be correct. There is something supernatural that I cannot discern, or religion is just a cultural construct.
And someone in my position has no way of discerning which one is correct, thus seeing no alternative to reality, and just a hodgepodge of religious theory within and between religions, I still agree with the conclusion of a 16 year old by back in 1953.
Science is nothing more than a man-made invention, my friend. Scientific papers contradict one another. I don't think you are wise to put your trust in something that flawed human beings made up in their own minds. If a flawed person makes up something, you can trust that logically, it will be flawed as well.
The only way it would be possible to know with absolute 100% certainty that God didn't exist would be to have knowledge of every possible place and form that He could exist in - you would have to be omniscient and omnipotent. So, in other words, in order to know for sure that God didn't exist, you would have to be God yourself.
I have “known” since I was 16 that religion was invented by humanity, rather than humanity being an invention of a supernatural god. I have lived a life in science, examining and explaining reality without reliance upon supernatural doctrine and justifications for religious beliefs. I do not, and never had, any inclination or reason to accept or believe that there is any supernatural aspect to human life. This expert from a recent essay by Andrew M. Haines in Ethika Politika, “The unmistakable finality we experience with new insights — and what we know we lack without them — points to something real beyond our minds.” describes something that I have never known, but that I have encountered in others in many different ways of expressions of faith and belief. It is either like the magician who performs a seemingly impossible magic trick, but there is the sure knowledge that it is a trick; or the scientist who understands and can manipulate extremely complex equations and you know that it is real and very rational, but it is beyond your capability to understand the train of thought and analysis that provides the very real conclusion. So I do not understand how one can accept that a contemporary supernatural world actually exists. Those that do believe must have a mental capacity for discerning that a supernatural deity exists that I, and many others, do not possess; or they create such belief within themselves through a stimulus of cultural beliefs and a desire to believe in something beyond themselves. Both of these possibilities cannot be correct. There is something supernatural that I cannot discern, or religion is just a cultural construct. And someone in my position has no way of discerning which one is correct, thus seeing no alternative to reality, and just a hodgepodge of religious theory within and between religions, I still agree with the conclusion of a 16 year old by back in 1953.
I will tell you quite plainly, I certainly do have evidence you do not have. I know for a fact God exists, because I have been shown ample evidence of this. For me, you have not (some would disagree heartedly). And, it is quite that simple.
However, this does not mean that I find it illuminating for someone to argue that they have "proof God does not exist", or in anyway to claim to over rule the very possibility of the "supernatural".
That sort of narrow minded, close minded thinking betrays every precept of science and logic.
It is also patently absurd. It speaks of a desire to appeal to people, rather then to honestly attempt to approach the universe.
The universe is full of unknowns, and if you are lucky enough to gather true knowledge, you learn far more about how little you really do know... then gathering what you can say you know for sure.
If you truly do have evidence for the existence of God, then just present it. That is the beauty of evidence, simply presenting it for others to evaluate should allow everyone the opportunity to agree or disagree with you.
The problem with so much of the 'evidence' for the existence of God turns out to be just a subjective interpretation of some event which can equally be explained as coincidence.
Allow me to introduce something William of Occam, a Fourteenth Century Franciscan Friar, introduced into the problem solving community. We know it today as Occam's Razor. "His principle states that among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected."
Occam's razor - Wikipedia
snip
Okay, so...
Your statements quoting such things as "Occam's Razor" to me are painfully foolish.
You are showing a juvenile sense of understanding even of worldly matters.
So, just informational there.
I realize I do not post here with my real name. But, I am in my mid forties, and extremely well read, as well as accomplished in the technical field. Why do I not post my linkedin to prove such a matter? Why, then one could even start to google my heritage and society.
So, what you seem to think is telling me something I have never heard before (such as "occam's razor"), I am sitting here going, "okay this is a poorly read kid with a huge ego and no sense of understanding for how it is when one is accomplished and proven".
Do not get me wrong. Three decades and plus ago, when I was your age, I read a lot of adult books of high regard as well, and largely also considered myself an atheist. I read origin of the species when I was 13.
All very long before I proved myself so a lot of adults who have also proved their own intellects would proclaim me smart.
But, honestly, I do not think I ever thought I would actually condemn anyone else's viewpoints.
There was never a point where I said, "I will not consider a matter I have no evidence for". If I am given evidence for a matter, I will consider it. And I was acutely aware that if I did not have evidence for a matter, that this did not mean such a matter did not exist.
(LOL. Big Grin.)
All that said, I am not about to send you my linkedin which I can detail would prove what I am saying, anymore then I will ask Heaven to give you evidence.
As for the world not having evidence, and? I am not sure the confusion point here.
I have no desire to inform the world of matters it does not know, lol.
Even by worldly manner of thought, what there is the gain for me?
To persuade someone who is not persuaded? That is always the point of giving evidence, to an "oh duh" level...
You simply do not understand.
It is gold, evidence, and it is carefully treated as such. There is no reason to go and throw it around for just everyone, asking nothing back from them.
I have “known” since I was 16 that religion was invented by humanity, rather than humanity being an invention of a supernatural god. I have lived a life in science, examining and explaining reality without reliance upon supernatural doctrine and justifications for religious beliefs. I do not, and never had, any inclination or reason to accept or believe that there is any supernatural aspect to human life. This expert from a recent essay by Andrew M. Haines in Ethika Politika, “The unmistakable finality we experience with new insights — and what we know we lack without them — points to something real beyond our minds.” describes something that I have never known, but that I have encountered in others in many different ways of expressions of faith and belief. It is either like the magician who performs a seemingly impossible magic trick, but there is the sure knowledge that it is a trick; or the scientist who understands and can manipulate extremely complex equations and you know that it is real and very rational, but it is beyond your capability to understand the train of thought and analysis that provides the very real conclusion. So I do not understand how one can accept that a contemporary supernatural world actually exists. Those that do believe must have a mental capacity for discerning that a supernatural deity exists that I, and many others, do not possess; or they create such belief within themselves through a stimulus of cultural beliefs and a desire to believe in something beyond themselves. Both of these possibilities cannot be correct. There is something supernatural that I cannot discern, or religion is just a cultural construct. And someone in my position has no way of discerning which one is correct, thus seeing no alternative to reality, and just a hodgepodge of religious theory within and between religions, I still agree with the conclusion of a 16 year old by back in 1953.
... I do not, and never had, any inclination or reason to accept or believe that there is any supernatural aspect to human life. ...
Hello Martin. I don't know if you are still into this topic because long time has passed since you created it. Anyway, I just saw it and after briefly looking at other people's answers I decided to give you mine, but also, I would like to point out some things that could be a good research point because, let's be honest, you won't start believing this very moment because you read one comment regarding this topic.
Anyway, I will give you my brief summary because, I understand how you feel because I've been there myself. First, I want to say that I'm not a theology expert or anything similar, I'm a 18 yo (please don't leave after reading my age ) that had it enough with people telling him that he is ignorrant fool because he believes in a God. Now, at that time I was "blindly" believing in God but I always had those classic big questions. When I went to the high school I was kinda surprised to see how many of my friends didn't believe in God and so I tried to get them to believe in Him. However, when I couldn't give solid arguments for my faith other than just some childish talk, I decided do to this: I'm going to examine this thing, I will find out for sure is there any evidence for this belief of Christian God. If there is, then I will be able to understand my faith and learn to share it with others and if there isn't, I won't believe anymore in something I couldn't even prove is true. That is when it all started. It's been a lot of late nights, lot of reading and watching, researching... I believe, if you are really determined to find out this, once for all, that YOU as well, will go through a lot of research and I encourage you to DON'T GIVE UP ON IT until you are 100% certain in what you believe.
Regarding the evidence. When we look at the evidence, there is not one specific part which you should focus on. Evidence (at least in my case) was highly based on history and philosophy, there are also testimonies from other people (which, of course, doesn't make something true but combined with already stated groups makes a bigger pictuere) and, of course, a personal expirience of God (which someone may or may not encounter).
Now, I like to say that there are two ways of "finding" God. We can do it indirectly (by looking at the creation and examining evidences regarding it) and directly (by looking at the Jesus Christ and examining evidences regarding Him). In my personal expirience, it is much harder (but still acheivable) to find God by looking at the evidences regarding creation. Since Jesus Christ is the center figure regarding Christianity, it would seem logical to focus the research on Him.
Stuff to research more deeply (if you want to, I can provide you materials):
- Firstly, did Jesus existed or was he made up? (not a single serious scholar denies that)
- After you actually understand that he was a historic figure, next thing is to see whether things that he was saying or doing are actually reliable as a evidence and since most of the information regarding Jesus are found in the Gospels, next topic is - Are Gospels reliable as the historical evidence?
- Was Jesus REALLY the Son of God or just a regular man?
- Was the resurrection of Jesus a real event?
I think those are the main topics that one should start his research with. After hitting the main ones, you could literally go anywhere you want.
- You could look into more stuff regarding Jesus Christ
- You could look at the evidences regarding creation, stuff like the existance of this complex universe (which is indicating that there is a Creator)
- Looking at creation and seeing extreme precision, intention and complexity (which indicates that intelligent design is pointing to a intelligent designer - enormous topic called Intelligent Design movement)
- Stuff like existence of universal objective moral values (pointing to a moral lawgiver)
I'll give you this youtube channel and there you can find A LOT of videos regarding multiple topics linked to Christianity, this helped me a lot in the beginning):
Theology, Philosophy and Science
I hope this post wasn't too long for you to read and I hope that you will be successfull in your journey to truly find God. I wish you all the best, God bless.