LoveGodsWord said: WHAT DID JESUS AND THE APOSTLES TEACH ABOUT GOD’S LAW(the scriptures below are no where near exhaustive) Jesus taught the 10 commandments…..
listed replied: 1. Jesus kept God’s Law (10 commandments) and said the Law and the prophets would not pass away (Matt 5:17-18) Already responded to this with
Luke 24:44 which is rejected as truth. Also have included
Hebrews 7:12 showing jots and titles of the law have passed and rejected as truth.
In relation to what is posted it is the interpretation of scripture put forward that is not biblical and rejected not the scripture. Please feel free to respond to the following; You claim that God’s Law (the 10 commandments) are abolished yet this interpretation contradicts God’s Word. This is because all through the Old Testament and New Testament scriptures the very standard in the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the judgement to come is God’s Law (10 commandments) which the Word of God says are
forever.
God’s Word says that the Law of God (10 commandments) is the work of God (
Exodus 32:16) whatsoever God does is
forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (
Ecclesiastes 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (
Psalms 19:7). It is the very foundation of the Old and New Covenants and the Judgement to come (
Exodus 20:1:17, Hebrews 8:10-12; Exodus 36:26-27; Jeremiah 31:33-34; Hebrews 10:26-28; Romans 1:29-32;2:-9;2 Corinthians 5:10; Hebrews 9:27; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31 ). God's Law was
spoken by God himself to His people (
Exodus 20:1-22). God’s 10 commandments are the spoken word of God (
Exodus 20:1-22). God’s Word does not pass away (
Matthew 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (
Psalms 111:7-8, Revelations 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4; James 2:8-12 etc.). God’s Law reveals sin to us and the penalty of sin so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (
Romans 6:23; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4). It is the great standard of the judgement (
Hebrews 10:26-28; Romans 1:29-32; Romans 2:2-13; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Hebrews 9:27; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood as we have faith (
Galatians 3:24; Revelations 1:5). God writes His Law in our hearts so that we become like him and we follow him because we love him (
Hebrews 8:10-12) LOVE is the fulfilling (doing) of God's Law (
Romans 13:10). This is why Jesus says to those that love him If you love me keep my commandments (
John 14:15).
This also includes God's 4th commandment which is the 7th Day Sabbath.
It has just been shown in the scriptures provided above that;
(1) God’s Law (10 commandments)
are forever.
(2) God’s Law (10 commandments) are the
standard of the Old and New Covenants and the judgement to come.
(3) God’s Law (10 commandments)
points out sin and righteousness and leads us to our Saviour.
So no God’s Law (10 commandments) are not abolished. Now let’s look at the scriptures that you provided?
You use Luke 24:44 and Hebrews 7:12 as your references for scripture to support your interpretation that God’s Law (10 commandments) are abolished. Let’s have a look at what the scriptures say and what they are talking about including the context.
Luke 24:44
He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.
Within Luke Chapter 24, the
context of Luke 24:44 is just after the resurrection of Jesus (v24), And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not. (v25), Then he said unto them,
O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: (26),
ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? (v27) And beginning at
Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Then continuing….
(v44), And he said unto them,
These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. (v45), Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, (v46), And said unto them,
Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: (v47),
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (v48), And ye are witnesses of these things. (v49), And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Luke 24:44 is in reference the
ceremonial laws of Moses and the
prophets and the
psalms that pointed to Jesus. (see
Isaiah 53; Psalms 22; Leviticus 23). These where the shadows discussed earlier with you that where shadows of things to come that had their fulfilment and pointed to Jesus, his life, death, resurrection and ministration as our advocate and great High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary
(Hebrews 8:1-
5; 6-
13;
Hebrews 10:
1-19; Colossians 2:
14;17; Hebrews chapters 9; 10;
John 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:6-7; Romans 2:28-29).
Luke 24:44 does not say that Jesus has abolished the 10 commandments as the verse is in reference to the ceremonial laws of Moses that pointed to Jesus and not God’s Law (10 commandments)
Now let’s look at Hebrews 7…
Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
What law?
The context of Hebrews 7 once again is about the
ceremonial laws of Moses in relation to the
Levitical Priesthood pointing to Christ.
Verses 11-14 Observe the necessity there was of raising up another priest, after the order of Melchisedec and not after the order of Aaron, by whom that perfection should come which could not come by the Levitical priesthood, which therefore must be changed, and the whole economy with it,
v. 11,
v. 12, etc. Here,(1). It is asserted that perfection could not come by the Levitical priesthood and the law. They could not put those who came to them into the perfect enjoyment of the good things they pointed out to them; they could only show them the way.(2). That therefore another priest must be raised up, after the order of Melchisedec, by whom, and his law of faith, perfection might come to all who obey him; and, blessed be God, that we may have perfect holiness and perfect happiness by Christ in the covenant of grace, according to the gospel, for we are complete in him.(3). It is asserted that the priesthood being changed there must of necessity be a change of the law; there being so near a relation between the priesthood and the law, the dispensation could not be the same under another priesthood; a new priesthood must be under a new regulation, managed in another way, and by rules proper to its nature and order.IV. It is not only asserted, but proved, that the priesthood and law are changed,
v. 13,
v. 14. The priesthood and law by which perfection could not come are abolished, and a priest has arisen, and a dispensation is now set up, by which true believers may be made perfect. Now that there is such a change is obvious.1. There is a change in the tribe of which the priesthood comes. Before, it was the tribe of Levi; but our great high priest sprang out of Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning the priesthood,
v. 14. This change of the family shows a real change of the law of the priesthood.2. There is a change in the form and order of making the priests. Before, in the Levitical priesthood, they were made after the law of a carnal commandment; but our great high priest was made after the power of an endless life. The former law appointed that the office should descend, upon the death of the father, to his eldest son, according to the order of carnal or natural generation; for none of the high priests under the law were without father or mother, or without descent: they had not life and immortality in themselves. They had both beginning of days and end of life; and so the carnal commandment, or law of primogeniture, directed their succession, as it did in matters of civil right and inheritance. But the law by which Christ was constituted a priest, after the order of Melchisedec, was the power of an endless life. (
Source: Matthew Henry Bible Commentary)
Hebrews 7:12 does not say that Jesus has abolished the 10 commandments
In summary therefore based on the scripture provided God’s Law (10 commandments) are forever and the standard of the Old and New Covenant and the judgement to come. Luke 24:44 and Hebrews 7:12
do not support your interpretation that God’s Law (10 commandments) have been abolished. If you do not believe the scriptures provided in this post please respond. This also includes the 7th Day Sabbath.
LoveGodsWord said: 2. Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (
Mark 10:17-21)
listed replied: The pro law contingency have been asked and asked to discuss the context of the same incident found it
Matthew 19 and so far have resolutely declined by ignoring the request. Anyone wonder why?
Wonder why not? Let’s discus it.
As for me I am pro
man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Everything from the New Testament scriptures come from the Old Testament. The two great commandments which is to (1) love God and (2) love our fellow man come from the Old Testament writings found in Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18. These two great commandments however were summing up God’s Law (10 commandments). The first is your duty towards God (the first table
Exodus 20:1-11) and the second is your duty towards your neighbour (2nd table
Exodus 20:12-17) and is why
Jesus says on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets (
Matthew 22:36-40).
The Jews (Pharisees/Lawyers) knew this already however as is referenced in
Luke 10:25-28
Luke 10:25-28
25, And, behold, a certain
lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying,
Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26, He said unto him, what is written in the law? How readest thou? 27, and he answering said <the Lawyer/Pharisee>,
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself. 28, and he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
Because this was indeed referring to the Old testament scriptures (Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18)
Notice again the same question asked by the rich young ruler in
what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Matthew 19:16-19
16, And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master,
what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17, And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:
but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18, He saith unto him,
which? Jesus said,
Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19, H
onour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
This is the reason Jesus says that on the two great commandments (love to God and Love to man)
hang all the law and the prophets (
Matthew 22:36-40). This is because you cannot separate Love from action. Love produces the fruit of obedience which is established in the life of those that have faith and believe God’s Word (
2 Peter 1:4; Ephesians 2:8; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:4; Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:3-10;
1 John 2:2-4).
There you go discussed your post
does not support your claim that God’s Law (10 commandments) have been abolished. This also includes the 7th Day Sabbath.
LoveGodsWord said: 3. Jesus taught that Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law (10 commandments Matt 22:36-40) listed replied: I don't think so. Jesus only answered a question. Jesus did say keep the law. It also should be noted neither come from the ten commandments. It's held by the pro law contingency here those commandments are nailed tot he cross being what is referred to as the law of Moses. What we have here is really double speak.
Matthew 22:36-40,
36, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37, Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38, This is the first and great commandment. 39, And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40,
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Matthew 19:16-19
16, And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master,
what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17, And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:
but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18, He saith unto him,
which? Jesus said,
Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19, H
onour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
There is no double speak friend only God’s Word. Why do you call it double speak? Your post says
“I do not think so” Does this refute God’s Word or should we believe man over God’s Word? What does the scripture say? God forbid: yea
let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged. This is because it is God’s Word that will judge us in the last days (
Romans 3:4; John 12:47-48)
What you have posted above does not say that God’s Law (10 commandments) are abolished. This also includes the 7th Day Sabbath.
LoveGodsWord said: 4 If we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not following God (Matt 15:3-9) listed replied: This statement is really 2 things: self condemnation by non compliance of the speaker and that no one not keeping the law isn't a Christian (following God). The positive statement of this is: One must keep the law to have salvation. This is a direct contradiction to the words of Jesus several places in the Gospel of John.
Actually those are the Words of Jesus in reference to following man-made traditions over the Word of God that break God’s Law (10 commandments)…
Matthew 15:3-9
3, But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4, For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death. 5, But ye say, whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou might be profited by me; 6, and honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7, you hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8, this people draw nigh unto me with their mouth, and honours me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9, But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Jesus (God’s Word) says if we knowingly follow man-made traditions over the Word of God that break God’s commandments we are not following God. Sunday Worship is a man-made tradition that breaks God’s Law (10 commandments)
What you have posted above
does not say that God’s Law (10 commandments) are abolished. This also includes the 7th Day Sabbath.
LoveGodsWord said: 5. Jesus says if we commit sin we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin (
John 8:32-36)
listed replied: If we are the servants of sin is true for the person we call Christian there is no salvation or eternal life. Paul, James and John all discuss tihs issue. None oft hem grant the right to live a lifestyle of sin. All of them admit the Christian sins.
Once again these are also the Words of Jesus…
John 8:31-36
31, Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32, and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33, they answered him, we be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, you shall be made free? 34, Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin. 35, and the servant abides not in the house for ever: but the Son abides ever.36, If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Salvation by faith for the believer is from sin not in sin resulting freedom not to sin.
If you are in unrepentant sin God’s Word says you do not know God and you are not following him (
1 John 3:3-10; 1 John 2:2-4)
Once again what you have posted above
does not say that God’s Law (10 commandments) are abolished. This also includes the 7th Day Sabbath.
LoveGodsWord said: 6. Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love (
John 14:15; 15:10
listed replied: Jesus did no such thing in either of these verses. Jesus takes possession of something. Jesus doesn't take possession of the law clearly evident by His comparison statement in
John 15:10.
Yet you provide no scripture for your opinion despite all the scripture references all through the New Testament provided by Jesus in his own Words and the Apostles. Yet we have not even begun to discuss the Old Testament writings that the New Testament has come from. How should we believe the Word of God or man?
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged. (
Romans 3:4)
Once again what you have posted above
does not say that God’s Law (10 commandments) are abolished. This also includes the 7th Day Sabbath.
LoveGodsWord said: 7. If anyone is breaking any of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven <least = lost> (Matt 15:19) listed replied: The brief definition provided above isn't provable by Scripture. If a person is lost they aren't in the kingdom of God. The verse clearly speaks of being in the kingdom of heaven. It doesn't speak about those outside of the kingdom of heaven.
What do supporting scriptures in God’s Word say?
Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he
shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven
What will happen to those that are found in unrepentant sin breaking God’s commandments?
Hebrews 10:26-27
26,
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9, Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revellers, nor extortioners,
shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21
19, Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21, Envying’s, murders, drunkenness, revelling’s, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that
they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Now it is clear in Matthew 15:19 that we are talking about someone that is
breaking one of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so. That are called least in the Kingdom of Heaven. This is referring to those that are in God’s Kingdom. The few supporting scriptures provided above (there are others also elsewhere) tell us what happens to those that break God’s commandments that
they shall not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. This is compared to Matthew 5:19 which is talking about those breaking God’s commandments and are being referred to as also being the least in God’s Kingdom because they are teaching others to depart from the Kingdom of Heaven.
Once again what you have posted above
does not say that God’s Law (10 commandments) are abolished. This also includes the 7th Day Sabbath.
LoveGodsWord said: 8. No one can obey God’s Law producing the fruit of obedience of ourselves and unless we abide in Jesus we can do nothing (
John 15:4-10)
listed replied: Here the subject is changed from the "ten commandments" to "the law of God." Jeremiah does this in his prophecy about the replacement of the covenant. The pro law contingency put forth the ten commandments are the only and exclusive law of God. This can't be true considering just the OT. For instance
Genesis 26:5 says Abraham kept God law and Moses says Abraham didn't have the ten commandment law in
Deuteronomy 5:3.This post is already way to long. I see no real need to show the implied misinformation of the remainder of the post.
Once again what you have posted above
does not say that God’s Law (10 commandments) are abolished. There has nothing been provided from this post to suggest any implied misinformation from the OP and
nothing has been provided to suggest that God’s Law (10 commandments) have or ever will be abolished and we have not even considered the OP of the writings of the Apostles. God’s Law (10 commandments) are forever.
This also includes the 7th Day Sabbath.
In Christ Always!