Was it the translators?

visionary

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Who made the Feasts of the Lord's into the Feasts of the Jews?


And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. John 2:13

Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was at hand. John 7:2

And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh John 6:4

After this there was a feast of the Jews; ..and Yeshua went up to Jerusalem. John 5:1
 

JackRT

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The Gospel of John was written about 60 years after the death of Jesus and at a time when it was becoming obvious that the Jewish Christians in the synagogues were losing to the emerging rabbinical Jewish movement. In the tension of that battle for the hearts and souls of the Jewish people there was a lot of bad blood on both sides. It would seem that John is in a subtle way inserting a distance between Christian and Jew.
 
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ForsakenGirl

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The Gospel of John was written about 60 years after the death of Jesus and at a time when it was becoming obvious that the Jewish Christians in the synagogues were losing to the emerging rabbinical Jewish movement. In the tension of that battle for the hearts and souls of the Jewish people there was a lot of bad blood on both sides. It would seem that John is in a subtle way inserting a distance between Christian and Jew.

Christians were a minority, no?
Perhaps John wanted to win the favour of the majority..
 
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Norbert L

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Who made the Feasts of the Lord's into the Feasts of the Jews?


And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. John 2:13

Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was at hand. John 7:2

And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh John 6:4

After this there was a feast of the Jews; ..and Yeshua went up to Jerusalem. John 5:1
I'm thinking more along historical lines, how people refer to themselves in reference to their past. The NT came at the end of the second temple period and it had a beginning too. It just may be a natural way of distinguishing between which version of the two competing kingdoms and their respective feasts had been rebuilt in Jerusalem. The feasts from the dynastic line of David in the kingdom of Judah or the feasts in northern Israel begun by the non-Davidic line of Jeroboam as the kingdom of Israel. 1 Kings 12:25-33

It could be more accurate to say what made the Feasts of the Lord into the Feasts of the Jews.
 
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Norbert L

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The Gospel of John was written about 60 years after the death of Jesus and at a time when it was becoming obvious that the Jewish Christians in the synagogues were losing to the emerging rabbinical Jewish movement. In the tension of that battle for the hearts and souls of the Jewish people there was a lot of bad blood on both sides. It would seem that John is in a subtle way inserting a distance between Christian and Jew.
It seems more likely that a significant amount of Jews wanted to distance themselves from other Jews like the apostle John. From what I understand the tensions arouse because of a theological difference about the nature of God within the Jewish community at that time. What was once accepted within Judaism while John lived, that the OT would have YHWH show up in bodily form. This was later rejected as a heresy within Judaism because of the popularity of a Jewish Church with gentile converts. "Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt," as Jude 1:5 states in some ancient manuscripts.

What was inserting a distance between Christianity and Judaism was their theology about who Jesus was. Dr. Michael Heiser a Christian scholar explains it more thoroughly here:
 
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AbbaLove

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They are the Holy Convocations of YHWH ... They are not the Feasts of the Jews, but of YHWH

Leviticus 23:4
“Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘These are my appointed feasts, the appointed feasts of YHWH, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies. “‘There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to YHWH. “‘These are YHWH’s appointed feasts, the sacred assemblies you are to proclaim at their appointed times:

A common problem during the translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek was that the translators, though fluent in Hebrew and Greek were not Jews and inserted words or passages into the text to clarify their intent.

Imagine the Hebrew Apostle John writing to his fellow Hebrews and saying the following:


John 2:13
When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

John 7:2
But when the Jewish Feast of Tabernacles was near,

Now why would a Jewish writer, writing for the mostly Hebrew church, insert the word Jewish into the text? He and his audience grew up with the Feasts. They knew that they were the Feasts of YHWH because the Torah told them so.

Besides, there was no such word as ‘Jew’ during those times.

Note: All of the above are excerpts from ... Feasts of YHWH - The Restoration of the Bride of Messiah
 
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visionary

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It seems more likely that a significant amount of Jews wanted to distance themselves from other Jews like the apostle John. From what I understand the tensions arouse because of a theological difference about the nature of God within the Jewish community at that time. What was once accepted within Judaism while John lived, that the OT would have YHWH show up in bodily form. This was later rejected as a heresy within Judaism because of the popularity of a Jewish Church with gentile converts. "Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt," as Jude 1:5 states in some ancient manuscripts.

What was inserting a distance between Christianity and Judaism was their theology about who Jesus was. Dr. Michael Heiser a Christian scholar explains it more thoroughly here:
So.. it was Feasts of Israel vs Feasts of the Jews.. rather than Feasts of the Lord??
 
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Norbert L

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So.. it was Feasts of Israel vs Feasts of the Jews.. rather than Feasts of the Lord??
It does seem natural to me that people as a conglomerate have a tendency to associate mandated public celebrations with their identity as a nation throughout history. The Feasts of the Lord were the same feasts kept by His people the Jews. It wouldn't be a big jump in belief for them to think and talk about His Feasts as also being their feasts.
 
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visionary

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It does seem natural to me that people as a conglomerate have a tendency to associate mandated public celebrations with their identity as a nation throughout history. The Feasts of the Lord were the same feasts kept by His people the Jews. It wouldn't be a big jump in belief for them to think and talk about His Feasts as also being their feasts.
If a Jew talks about the Feasts, does he call them the feasts of the Jews. If a Jewish writer of the first century writes about the feasts, are they the feast of the Jews? If a believer in Yeshua the Messiah, zealous for the law, in the first century writes about the Feasts, would they be Feasts of the Jews to him?
 
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Norbert L

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Yeshua taught salvation is from the Jews, they'll to have convey that story from their perspective. There's what is mentioned in 2 Kings 17:26, "...do not know the law of the god of the land". It seems gods are associated with the land they are worshiped in. It wouldn't be far fetched to believe that in an international civilization such as the Roman Empire with its' many polytheistic religions, they're going to have to distinguish themselves from the rest of the nations. One way to do that is by referencing the land and culture from where the Lord comes from. So saying the feast of the Jews is a good way of telling people from all over, who they consider to be Lord over all the rest of the lords being worshiped.
 
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Dave-W

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Tradition has it that John (Yochanan bar Zabdi) spent his later days at the congregation in Ephesus. It would have been there that he composed both his gospel and the letters. So his first audience for the gospel would have been the Greek believers in Ephesus.

We're from the church
At Ephesus
We've come to produce a show
We hope you like
It very much
We hope that you will not go

We brought our actors
We brought some lights
We brought our singers for tonight

We're from the church
At Ephesus
We've come to produce a show
We hope you like
It very much
We hope that you enjoy the show!!!

(c) 1979 David Simpson
 
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AbbaLove

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If a Jewish writer of the first century writes about the feasts, are they the feast of the Jews? If a believer in Yeshua the Messiah, zealous for the law, in the first century writes about the Feasts, would they be Feasts of the Jews to him?
The word "Jews" and "Jewish" was foreign to the vocabulary used by a Hebrew from the tribe of Yehudah during the first century. "Jew" and "Jewish" is derogatory slang for a member of the tribe of Judah (or any Hebrew). Yet its usage is widely accepted as a catch-all for all Hebrews to the extent that there is a "Complete Jewish Bible" by Dr. Sterns and another "Complete Jewish Bible" (Tanakh only) by Chabad. A first century Hebrew writer from the tribe of Yehudah considered what you refer to as "Jewish feasts" as the Appointed Festivals of YHWH.

It's become so accepted ("Jews/Jewish") just as is the name "Sioux" (derogatory name meaning "snake-like enemy" by the Algonquin Nations in place of Dacotah, Nacotah and Lacotah (meaning "friendly allies"). The name "Sioux" (slang contraction of Nadouessioux) is accepted and commonly used among their own people just as "Jew" has become accepted by their own people.

As far as who was hated most by foreigners it's a tossup whether it was the "Jews" or the "Sioux" that were to be exterminated (genocide). To begin with Sioux were were not known for cruelty as were the Algonquins, until their treaties were continually broken time and time again.
 
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Open Heart

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If a Jew talks about the Feasts, does he call them the feasts of the Jews. If a Jewish writer of the first century writes about the feasts, are they the feast of the Jews? If a believer in Yeshua the Messiah, zealous for the law, in the first century writes about the Feasts, would they be Feasts of the Jews to him?
I can't answer this question without violating the SOP.
 
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chunkofcoal

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Who made the Feasts of the Lord's into the Feasts of the Jews?


And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. John 2:13

Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was at hand. John 7:2

And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh John 6:4

After this there was a feast of the Jews; ..and Yeshua went up to Jerusalem. John 5:1

John was teaching and his teaching wasn't necessarily going to be to the Jews themselves. He said:

Joh 1:10-13 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. (11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not. (12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And he wrote:
Joh 21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

And he wrote down Yeshua's words:

Joh 17:20-21 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; (21) That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Awesome responsibility! :)
 
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CherubRam

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Who made the Feasts of the Lord's into the Feasts of the Jews?


And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. John 2:13

Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was at hand. John 7:2

And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh John 6:4

After this there was a feast of the Jews; ..and Yeshua went up to Jerusalem. John 5:1


Jeremiah 7
21 This is what the Lord of Hosts, the God of Israel, says: “Add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices, and eat the meat yourselves, 22 for when I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak with them or command them concerning burnt offering and sacrifice.
26 However, they wouldn’t listen to Me or pay attention, but became obstinate; they did more evil than their ancestors.

Moses created the festivals and sacrifices for Yahwah. Yahwah only said how they should be conducted. Since the beginning of Man it has been a good will gesture (BY MAN) to offer food and sacrifices.
 
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davidbenephraim

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Who made the Feasts of the Lord's into the Feasts of the Jews?


And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. John 2:13

Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was at hand. John 7:2

And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh John 6:4

After this there was a feast of the Jews; ..and Yeshua went up to Jerusalem. John 5:1

Shalom and good afternoon Visionary, all of my study and research indicates that it was the Early Church Fathers (whose time of church leadership began in 100 A.D. with Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp who began departing from the Apostolic teaching of John) who said that Yahweh's Feasts and weekly Sabbaths belong to the Jews only and not to the Christians. The Early Church Fathers were anti-Semitic Jew haters and that's why they decided the Seven Biblical Feasts of Yahweh were "Jewish" feasts. By the time of the "translators", this man-made church tradition had institutionalized the apostasy of the Early Church Fathers into what we know as traditional Christianity or Christendom. The translators were biased against anything Jewish or anything remotely believed to be Jewish according to the church tradition that had been established centuries before by the Early Church Fathers and institutionalized by Roman Constantine I under the name of the Roman Catholic Church. The translators simply translated the Bible according to their own preconceived bias which was based on the traditional anti-Semitic church teaching at the time.

Baruch HaShem Adonai

David
 
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danny ski

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If a Jew talks about the Feasts, does he call them the feasts of the Jews. If a Jewish writer of the first century writes about the feasts, are they the feast of the Jews? If a believer in Yeshua the Messiah, zealous for the law, in the first century writes about the Feasts, would they be Feasts of the Jews to him?
Occam's razor. Neither the writer nor his audience were Jewish. Simple.
 
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