If your God is a jerk --- it might be you.

[~Anastasia~]

I'm interested in discussion around this article. I posted it on my FB page that is accessible to all my family, old friends, people of many kinds. I got replies and varying degrees of discussion from three Athiest friends, not a peep from a single Christian one. I think I may have offended them.

So I'm placing this thread in St. Justin Martyr's, which allows debate, and leaving it open. All I'd ask is, please respond to the topics discussed in this short article. (And of course, no flaming.)

If your God is a jerk --- it might be you (https://johnpavlovitz.com/2017/09/08/god-ahole-might/)

An excerpt -

the series of massive hurricanes currently leveling large swaths of the planet—are just God trying to tell us something.

...

When he (God) puts his power on display, it’s never without reason. There’s a purpose. And we may not always understand what that purpose is, but we know it’s not random and we know that weather is sent to cause us to respond to God in humility, awe and repentance.

The storms are not random, he says, they are on purpose—God’s purpose. They are intentional creations. Never mind that scores of people have been killed, hundreds of thousands left homeless, and many in these very moments enduring unimaginable fear, Kirk wants you to know that God did it to you—and well, you need to figure out why.

 

[archer75]

I've always been unable to understand the kind of thinking that this article speaks against.

If Irma was a "message" about topic X, what about lesser events? Local storms that only kill one person and knock out power to a couple blocks...what are they? A "note" that God is just a little angry? Maybe someone just had a "gay" thought?

What about when the weather is just gray enough that it affects moods slightly?

What is all this?

Last I heard, God the Father sent rain on the just and the unjust. And if that's so...maybe these storms are a "message" of another kind...maybe that there's more energy in the oceans in the form of heat...hmm...could this be considered?

 

[FenderTL5]

I'm interested in discussion around this article. I posted it on my FB page that is accessible to all my family, old friends, people of many kinds. I got replies and varying degrees of discussion from three Athiest friends, not a peep from a single Christian one. I think I may have offended them.

So I'm placing this thread in St. Justin Martyr's, which allows debate, and leaving it open. All I'd ask is, please respond to the topics discussed in this short article. (And of course, no flaming.)

If your God is a jerk --- it might be you (https://johnpavlovitz.com/2017/09/08/god-ahole-might/)

An excerpt -

the series of massive hurricanes currently leveling large swaths of the planet—are just God trying to tell us something.

...

When he (God) puts his power on display, it’s never without reason. There’s a purpose. And we may not always understand what that purpose is, but we know it’s not random and we know that weather is sent to cause us to respond to God in humility, awe and repentance.

The storms are not random, he says, they are on purpose—God’s purpose. They are intentional creations. Never mind that scores of people have been killed, hundreds of thousands left homeless, and many in these very moments enduring unimaginable fear, Kirk wants you to know that God did it to you—and well, you need to figure out why.

What I found interesting from my 'Facebook friends';
The same FB friends who were posting/sharing and promoting the Kirk Cameron piece were appalled at the one attributed to actress Jennifer Lawrence. I saw little difference.

 

[*LILAC]

The Bible talks about all these storms and disasters "in the last days". Why are people so shocked when it happens? Prepare yourselves for the Lord is coming!! This is your hint!

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I don't think that demonstrations of the law of cause and effect are to be considered negatively as God telling us something. Rather what is being demonstrated is that the earth is reacting to negative causes. Be they what they may.

 

[~Anastasia~]

What I found interesting from my 'Facebook friends';
The same FB friends who were posting/sharing and promoting the Kirk Cameron piece were appalled at the one attributed to actress Jennifer Lawrence. I saw little difference.

I haven't heard the Jennifer Lawrence one. I'll have to look that up. I don't usually care much who says what, exactly.

I do fear I may have offended my family and/or people from the evangelical and Pentecostal circles I belonged to. I'm really surprised, not a single peep.

The words are strong though, and we DO need to be aware of what kind of God we present to people. Seems I get into more and more conversations with atheists about this, and have been overhearing their conversations in public along these lines, for years. It's just very much on my mind, but it sometimes seems only atheists are willing to talk about it.

 

[Steve Petersen]

I have long thought that peoples' theology reveals more about them than about God.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I've always been unable to understand the kind of thinking that this article speaks against.

If Irma was a "message" about topic X, what about lesser events? Local storms that only kill one person and knock out power to a couple blocks...what are they? A "note" that God is just a little angry? Maybe someone just had a "gay" thought?

What about when the weather is just gray enough that it affects moods slightly?

What is all this?

Last I heard, God the Father sent rain on the just and the unjust. And if that's so...maybe these storms are a "message" of another kind...maybe that there's more energy in the oceans in the form of heat...hmm...could this be considered?

I've thought of those things. And some weather one person welcomes and another detests - rather like two different teams each praying for victory in a sports game.


For some reason one of my thoughts that comes up is when I was a child, this social group my Mom belonged to planned a "snow play day" at the park. This was in Louisiana. As I was growing up, I remember maybe three snowfalls during my entire childhood. I have no idea why they dared to put it on the calendar - it's not like meteorologists back then could hope to make such predictions. But I prayed. Fervently. Repeatedly. And I suspect there were a couple dozen other children in the group playing as well. And do you know what happened? It actually snowed! That in itself was a minor miracle, lol. We had great fun.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I have long thought that peoples' theology reveals more about them than about God.

Sometimes that is strongly in evidence ...

 

[FenderTL5]

I haven't heard the Jennifer Lawrence one. I'll have to look that up. I don't usually care much who says what, exactly.

Don't waste your time. She supposedly said the hurricanes were sent as punishment for the way those states voted in 2016. I was gonna' link it in my earlier response but it seems she may have been misquoted by conservative media. I initially thought that she was doing a tongue-in-cheek response to the Cameron article which came out a couple days prior.

I do fear I may have offended my family and/or people from the evangelical and Pentecostal circles I belonged to. I'm really surprised, not a single peep.

when it comes to most social media; i have to sit on my hands while reading some of it, in order to not respond in ways I will later regret.

The words are strong though, and we DO need to be aware of what kind of God we present to people...

indeed.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I don't think that demonstrations of the law of cause and effect are to be considered negatively as God telling us something

Very true. Thinking otherwise can lead to a lot of confusion, IMO.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Don't waste your time. She supposedly said the hurricanes were sent as punishment for the way those states voted in 2016. I was gonna' link it in my earlier response but it seems she may have been misquoted by conservative media. My thought was that she was doing a tongue in cheek response to the Cameron article which came out a couple days prior.
when it comes to most social media; i have to sit on my hands while reading some of it, in order to not respond in ways I will later regret.
indeed.

Thanks, then, I won't bother reading it.

When people look for reasons in retrospect, nearly anything can be "proven".

My social media is divided into two halves, with very different "flavors".

I actually benefit more by getting candid responses from my atheist friends I've known for years, since I guess they have learned I will treat them a certain way. I find it doesn't sit well with some of my Christian friends though.

.
.
.

What I'm getting at with this article, and people's reactions over the years, is that there are different ways of both representing God and responding to non-believers, among Christians.

And the theology as well as the way they tend to treat unbelievers has a certain correlation.

I think on one far end of the spectrum you have Westboro-ish folks (who I'm not convinced are not actually trolling) who put forth a God who can't wait to gleefully destroy "sinners" in the most painful way possible - and they themselves are hardly "loving". And you have people all along the spectrum who might more closely present a God who truly loves, and hopefully they are more loving themselves. And I suppose I'd have to include those folks who swing to the opposite extreme, who present a God who simply turns a blind eye to any sin, favoring man's personal satisfaction over truly healing him from sin, and they might prefer not to call any behavior sin themselves.

We present a very uncohesive message (Christianity overall).

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Very true. Thinking otherwise can lead to a lot of confusion, IMO.

For the simple fact that it would lead away from the truth.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Well, for starters I've never put the least bit of stock or interest in Kirk Cameron, bless his heart. Maybe he means well in some way (hopefully). Nor do I think these natural disasters are judgments from God. If they were they would have been prophesied in advance.

HOWEVER, that having been said, I firmly believe that the God of the Old Testament and New Testament are one and the same, and He indeed carried out severe judgements against humanity during Old Testament times, some of which destroyed nearly the entire human race (Genesis 7:4). Those who are quick to judge Him by referring to Him using curse words are free to do so if they wish, but they stand on dangerous ground. These are what scripture refers to as murmurers and complainers (Jude 1:14-116), and when it comes down to it they will in all likelihood stand against the Lord rather than with Him.

I happen to love God, so if saying this makes more enemies for me, so be it. I'm not about to slander my Creator.

 

[The Brown Brink]

I think it's nonsense that weather is something God flings at us.
I think, rather, that God is waiting for us to figure out how to avoid being victimized by weather.

When it's cold, I figure God expects us to put on a coat...take care of ourselves...instead of begging God to make us warm.

We humans are supposed to be able to figure things out.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I have long thought that peoples' theology reveals more about them than about God.

especially those who feel the need to chime in when people are hurting and grieving.

 

[The Brown Brink]

Belief in a cruel God
Makes a cruel man.
--Thomas Paine

 

[ArmyMatt]

Belief in a cruel God
Makes a cruel man.
--Thomas Paine

great quote. a great example of this would be Fred Phelps

 

[PittBullMom]

The Bible talks about all these storms and disasters "in the last days". Why are people so shocked when it happens? Prepare yourselves for the Lord is coming!! This is your hint!

If the last days were predicted by storms, we've been in the last days since the FIRST day lol. As long as there are oceans, there will be hurricanes. Forever.

 

[Maryslittleflower]

I'm interested in discussion around this article. I posted it on my FB page that is accessible to all my family, old friends, people of many kinds. I got replies and varying degrees of discussion from three Athiest friends, not a peep from a single Christian one. I think I may have offended them.

So I'm placing this thread in St. Justin Martyr's, which allows debate, and leaving it open. All I'd ask is, please respond to the topics discussed in this short article. (And of course, no flaming.)

If your God is a jerk --- it might be you (https://johnpavlovitz.com/2017/09/08/god-ahole-might/)

An excerpt -

the series of massive hurricanes currently leveling large swaths of the planet—are just God trying to tell us something.

...

When he (God) puts his power on display, it’s never without reason. There’s a purpose. And we may not always understand what that purpose is, but we know it’s not random and we know that weather is sent to cause us to respond to God in humility, awe and repentance.

The storms are not random, he says, they are on purpose—God’s purpose. They are intentional creations. Never mind that scores of people have been killed, hundreds of thousands left homeless, and many in these very moments enduring unimaginable fear, Kirk wants you to know that God did it to you—and well, you need to figure out why.

Do the Orthodox speak of God's direct and permissive will?

Of course God can bring good out of evil and allows it for that and, but He also doesn't cause everything He allows. He doesn't want us to suffer in itself but allows for a greater good

That's my perspective anyway