The Spectacular Pre-Tribulation Rapture

[Quasar92]

Please delete

 

[jgr]

Stop with the calling Jesus a liar stuff. If you disagree, show him why. Too many people here prop themselves up by saying stuff like that.

I showed him why in the opening sentence.

You should be directing your rebuke to Quasar92, whose "liar" accusations far outnumber mine and everyone else's on this forum.

 

[jgr]

The Proclamation of the Gospel

Let’s begin with verse 14. It states that all the events described in Matthew 24 will take place at a time when the Gospel has been preached to all the world.

This certainly had not taken place by the year 70 A.D. In fact, it still has not taken place to this date.

Appalling but unsurprising refusal to believe the Word of God.

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Colossians 1
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

[Quasar92]

Appalling but unsurprising refusal to believe the Word of God.

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Colossians 1
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Either prove your opening remark, "that I refuse to believe the word of God," on the post I am addressing, or it is you who fails to accept the Scriptural facts.


Quasar92

 

[jgr]

Either prove your opening remark, "that I refuse to believe the word of God," on the post I am addressing, or it is you who fails to accept the Scriptural facts.


Quasar92

The cited Scriptures furnish all of the proof that's needed.

 

[Douggg]

1 Thess.4:13-18 is prophecy about the rapture of the Church. 1 Thess.5 is prophecy in which Paul is comparing the conditions of the believer to those who are not.

My posts #47 and #51 cover this issue as far as I will interface on it with you any further. For more verification of the coming tribulation, see my post @

You did not - could not - answer - without exposing your notion that the first half of the 70th week as "tribulation" is wrong. The Jews will be saying peace and safety during that time - Daniel 8 says the person destroys many by peace. The Jews, as will be the rest of the world, will be thinking they have entered the messianic age of peace and safety.

Jesus said
Luke 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

The pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib rapture terms are all misnomers. It should be pre-70th week, mid-70th week, post-70th week. The terms pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib are misleading traditions of men.

You are saying Pre-tribulation, but what is is meant is pre-70th week. The whole 70th week in not a tribulation period.

The great tribulation, the actual term in the bible, begins when the AoD is placed in temple - in the middle part of the 70th week - not at the beginning.

Q, the two issues for me in this discussion are:

1. misleading terminology (pre-trib, post-trib, mid-trib)

2. the pre-trib position that the rapture MUST happen before the 70th week begin.

 

[Anto9us]

My new avatar represents a Christian considering various eschatological theologies; the theologies themselves, and their names, are now multiplying prolifically.

The creatures Capt Kirk is befuddled about are called Tribbles.

 

[Quasar92]

The cited Scriptures furnish all of the proof that's needed.

I see no cited Scriptures that support your allegations. You've failed to make your point.


Quasar92

 

[jgr]

I see no cited Scriptures that support your allegations. You've failed to make your point.


Quasar92

Then perhaps you should visit your optometrist.

 

[Quasar92]

Then perhaps you should visit your optometrist.

You have failed to prove that I do not believe the Word of God, you charged me with. As such, you are relegated to attacking your opponent personally since you have no argument to field against the Scriptures I post refuting you! Capiche?!


Quasar92

 

[jgr]

You have failed to prove that I do not believe the Word of God, you charged me with. As such, you are relegated to attacking your opponent personally since you have no argument to field against the Scriptures I post refuting you! Capiche?!


Quasar92

Oh, so you agree that the gospel was "preached to every creature which is under heaven"? (Col. 1:23)

 

[Another Lazarus]

Noah was being told to embark the ship be4 the Flood (Tribulation)


And so did God take Lot out of Sodom be4 He poured down the fire.

This is not spectacular because God will save His people be4 He destroy the wicked world.

 

[Hal A Peno]

jhn

 

[BABerean2]

Noah was being told to embark the ship be4 the Flood (Tribulation)


And so did God take Lot out of Sodom be4 He poured down the fire.

This is not spectacular because God will save His people be4 He destroy the wicked world.

At least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan,

Rev 12:12　 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


The Flood of Noah was God's wrath upon the earth.
　

Rev 11:15　 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.　(How long is "forever"?)

Rev 11:16　 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,　

Rev 11:17　 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
　
Rev 11:18　 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.　

.

 

[jgr]

Your interpretation makes no sesne jgr, because the same gospel of Jesus Christ is being preached today throughout the world. The way you interpret it, the gospel was also preached to every man to include animals which God made. It's impossible that every man in the entire world hear the gospel at a time of severe persecution, in such a short time. 45-AD70, let alone the gospel be copied, distributed, and understood. Especially for books and chapters of PROPHECY be realized and understood.

I don't interpret anything. Scripture does that for me. I quoted the verse verbatim from the KJV.

Either you believe what the Word of God says plainly and clearly, or you deny it. You and Quasar92 have obviously chosen the latter, another of the interminable examples of classic dispensational hubris. I'll refrain from Quasar92's "making Paul a liar" this time.

Colossians 1:23 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
...if indeed you continue in [a]the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, [b]was made a [c]minister.

No substantive difference from the KJV. If it was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, then every creature under heaven heard it.

It's impossible that every man in the entire world hear the gospel

Tell that to Paul.

This doesn't mean that the preaching 'stopped' because it was preached throughout mankind.

There is absolutely no mention or implication of preaching stopping except in your imagination. Unquestionably the gospel continued to be proclaimed. Paul is simply saying that it had reached everyone initially by the time he wrote his epistle to the Colossians.

Thanks for the Strong's et al explanations you provided; they confirm the Scripture(s) I've cited.

Mutilating the Word of God to conform to modernist cultic ideology is standard dispensational practice. Don't keep company with that crowd.

Don't overlook the other substantiating Scriptures either:

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Colossians 1
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

 

[mike buckman]

According to what Scriptural verification to support your above meaningless opinions?

Review the following four post link with the Biblical teaching of the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church, as taught by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul.

The first two posts cover the Scriptural facts, the third post provides the chronological order of end time events and the fourth post is a listings of men of God from every walk of Christian teachings who fully endorse the pre-trib rapture of the Church.

With that having been said, provide me with your Scripturally based views refuting any part of those posts, or it is your views that are false, you need to do some serious rethinking on.

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church - a deeper walk...


Quasar92

Anyone who has seriously looked into the doctrine of pre tribulation rapture and the scriptures used to justify the conjecture already knows. Pre Tribulation rapture is a bandwagon and unspiritual doctrine of men.

Any scripture you use to try and justify the opposite of what the Bible actually is telling us, can also be used to show what the Bible is actually teaching, which is that Christ returns once on "The Last Day." All things are made new after that. It is called the last day because there will be no more day or night, cold or heat etc... the old order of things has passed away.

Christ also will not come until after the man of lawlessness is revealed.

We may not suffer the wrath of God, but look at the first few paragraphs of Rev 9 and 16. Both show clearly that those without the mark of the beast will be spared Gods wrath. It is also fair to note that during the Tribulation time, God isnt the only agent of wrath.... Satan sends the beast with wrath because he knows his time is short. God may spare us his plagues, but the devil will behead many Christians.

Another thing: God may have taken Noah away from the Judgement and the hour of trial that came upon the whole Earth back in the day, but he did not remove them from the Earth itself.

I'd like you to read Genesis 8; 21,22. There is a key here to understanding end times prophecy.

If you take every end time prophecy, from Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Zechariah 14, Thessalonians, Mathew, Peter, Rev etc... There are common themes among them. They paint a detailed picture of a time of Tribulation that ends with the coming of the Lord. There is not a single scripture that says that believers anywhere will be taken away before the Tribulations that the world suffers happen. That is why the doctrine of pre tribulation rapture is conjecture and speculation. The Bible does not teach any such thing. In fact it says that you will have tribulations and to hold fast until the end. "Hold fast until the end!"

There is no more discussion. Be ready at any time to meet the lord (no one knows when they might die anyway), but be prepared to hold fast until the end according to what the scripture plainly says.

Be prepared to give everything up to the Lord, even your very life. -This is the Gospel message, not that everything is going to be hunky dory and you dont need to worry about it.

 

[Quasar92]

Anyone who has seriously looked into the doctrine of pre tribulation rapture and the scriptures used to justify the conjecture already knows. Pre Tribulation rapture is a bandwagon and unspiritual doctrine of men.

Any scripture you use to try and justify the opposite of what the Bible actually is telling us, can also be used to show what the Bible is actually teaching, which is that Christ returns once on "The Last Day." All things are made new after that. It is called the last day because there will be no more day or night, cold or heat etc... the old order of things has passed away.

Christ also will not come until after the man of lawlessness is revealed.

We may not suffer the wrath of God, but look at the first few paragraphs of Rev 9 and 16. Both show clearly that those without the mark of the beast will be spared Gods wrath. It is also fair to note that during the Tribulation time, God isnt the only agent of wrath.... Satan sends the beast with wrath because he knows his time is short. God may spare us his plagues, but the devil will behead many Christians.

Another thing: God may have taken Noah away from the Judgement and the hour of trial that came upon the whole Earth back in the day, but he did not remove them from the Earth itself.

I'd like you to read Genesis 8; 21,22. There is a key here to understanding end times prophecy.

If you take every end time prophecy, from Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Zechariah 14, Thessalonians, Mathew, Peter, Rev etc... There are common themes among them. They paint a detailed picture of a time of Tribulation that ends with the coming of the Lord. There is not a single scripture that says that believers anywhere will be taken away before the Tribulations that the world suffers happen. That is why the doctrine of pre tribulation rapture is conjecture and speculation. The Bible does not teach any such thing. In fact it says that you will have tribulations and to hold fast until the end. "Hold fast until the end!"

There is no more discussion. Be ready at any time to meet the lord (no one knows when they might die anyway), but be prepared to hold fast until the end according to what the scripture plainly says.

Be prepared to give everything up to the Lord, even your very life. -This is the Gospel message, not that everything is going to be hunky dory and you dont need to worry about it.

You labor under false pretenses, Review the following teachings of Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul. on the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church

Beginning with Mt.24:31:

And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His ELECT from the four winds [Israel - on earth], from one end of the heavens to the other [The Church Jesus will rapture before the seven year tribulation begins]. How did those ELECT get into heaven? Read on to find out.

Lk.21:36:
"Watch ye, therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Jn.14:2-4 and 28:
"In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you [See Jn.20:17]. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." [Jn.14:2-4].

"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [Jn.14:28].

The Scriptures tell us where we all go, who belong to Christ, after the death of our bodies:
"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." As recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7. Which is, in and of itself, conclusive to the fact that Jesus is not going to let the rest of His Church remain on earth to go through the seven year tribulation, when He returns for those of us who are still alive, waiting for His appearing, in 1 Thes.4:17. Since He raises all those who have died, to be with Him, immediately after their physical death, for more than 2,000 years.

1 Thes.4:13-18:
The Thessalonians were very concerned about those among them who had died, that they would not be gathered together with the rest of them when Jesus returned. Paul assures them in vs 13-14 that they will all be returning with Christ from heaven, where they have been since He raised them up to be with Him, the day they died physically, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8.

"We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him [Died physically]. Vs 14.

"According to the Lord's own word [Scriptural truth as to the fact that Jesus taught there was to be a pre-trib rapture of the Church, as recorded in Jn.14:2-4 and 28], we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep." Vs 15. An assurance by Paul to the Thessalonians that the dead in Christ had already been raised from the dead before, and were already with Christ when He returns for all those left on earth alive at His coming.

Because they have already been raised, each in his/her own turn, according to 1 Cor.15:23. That is the very reason it is not documented as a resurrection in the Scriptures.

"For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven [With all His saints [Church], according to vs 14], with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" [Paul again assures them, as seen in verses 13-14, they were already previously raised once before, each in his/her own turn, as they died, for more than 2,000 years]. Vs 16.

"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be CAUGHT UP [raptured] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the sky. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Vs 17. Where we proceed with Jesus to our Father in heaven as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

"Therefore encourage each other with these words." Vs 18.

2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

In vs 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

"He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.

The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
In vs 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."

The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

In vs 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.

From the above Scriptural facts, there can be only one proper interpretation for the timing of the rapture of the Church, which will be immediately preceding the 70th and final/7 year tribulation, triggered by the antichrist, all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. Seen also as the first of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2. There is no "pre-wrath" or post-trib rapture taught in the Scriptures.


Other verses pertaining to the rapture of the Church: 1 Thes.1:10; 1 Thes.5:9; Rev.3:10 and Rev.4:1-2. Of the saints [Church] returning with Christ from their marriage in heaven, in Rev.19:7, 8 and 14; Jude 14 and Zech.14:4-5!


The difference between the Second Coming of Christ and the pre-trib rapture of the Church:

http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice...eenTheRapt.pdf


Quasar92

 

[jgr]

You labor under false pretenses, Review the following teachings of Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul. on the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church

Beginning with Mt.24:31:

And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His ELECT from the four winds [Israel - on earth], from one end of the heavens to the other [The Church Jesus will rapture before the seven year tribulation begins]. How did those ELECT get into heaven? Read on to find out.

Lk.21:36:
"Watch ye, therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Jn.14:2-4 and 28:
"In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you [See Jn.20:17]. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." [Jn.14:2-4].

"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [Jn.14:28].

The Scriptures tell us where we all go, who belong to Christ, after the death of our bodies:
"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." As recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7. Which is, in and of itself, conclusive to the fact that Jesus is not going to let the rest of His Church remain on earth to go through the seven year tribulation, when He returns for those of us who are still alive, waiting for His appearing, in 1 Thes.4:17. Since He raises all those who have died, to be with Him, immediately after their physical death, for more than 2,000 years.

1 Thes.4:13-18:
The Thessalonians were very concerned about those among them who had died, that they would not be gathered together with the rest of them when Jesus returned. Paul assures them in vs 13-14 that they will all be returning with Christ from heaven, where they have been since He raised them up to be with Him, the day they died physically, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8.

"We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him [Died physically]. Vs 14.

"According to the Lord's own word [Scriptural truth as to the fact that Jesus taught there was to be a pre-trib rapture of the Church, as recorded in Jn.14:2-4 and 28], we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep." Vs 15. An assurance by Paul to the Thessalonians that the dead in Christ had already been raised from the dead before, and were already with Christ when He returns for all those left on earth alive at His coming.

Because they have already been raised, each in his/her own turn, according to 1 Cor.15:23. That is the very reason it is not documented as a resurrection in the Scriptures.

"For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven [With all His saints [Church], according to vs 14], with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" [Paul again assures them, as seen in verses 13-14, they were already previously raised once before, each in his/her own turn, as they died, for more than 2,000 years]. Vs 16.

"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be CAUGHT UP [raptured] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the sky. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Vs 17. Where we proceed with Jesus to our Father in heaven as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

"Therefore encourage each other with these words." Vs 18.

2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

In vs 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

"He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.

The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
In vs 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."

The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

In vs 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.

From the above Scriptural facts, there can be only one proper interpretation for the timing of the rapture of the Church, which will be immediately preceding the 70th and final/7 year tribulation, triggered by the antichrist, all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. Seen also as the first of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2. There is no "pre-wrath" or post-trib rapture taught in the Scriptures.


Other verses pertaining to the rapture of the Church: 1 Thes.1:10; 1 Thes.5:9; Rev.3:10 and Rev.4:1-2. Of the saints [Church] returning with Christ from their marriage in heaven, in Rev.19:7, 8 and 14; Jude 14 and Zech.14:4-5!


The difference between the Second Coming of Christ and the pre-trib rapture of the Church:

http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice...eenTheRapt.pdf


Quasar92

Debunked.

 

[Quasar92]

Debunked.

Show mewhere it has been debunked. It certainly has not come from you.


Quasar92

 

[jgr]

Show mewhere it has been debunked. It certainly has not come from you.


Quasar92

You're certainly correct. It's come from the Reformers, the Greeks, and the early Church.