Terms Queen of heaven and Fully God and fully man... But at the same time?

[Monk Brendan]

She gave birth to the flesh, and had nothing to do with the birth of the spirit (The Word) in him...

Please show a Scriptural defense of that statement.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Clever..But careful.I never said that Jesus was not God.
I asked if he was man...AND God at the same time.

He is both God, and man, at the same time. If you don't believe that, then you have many more problems than I can begin to address in this forum. Scriptural defenses of this point are many, in books already written, by men much more learned than I am, and holier than I, as well. If you wish, you can PM me, and I will give you a list of some of those books.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Or the rediculous assumption. Both assumptions having zero biblical foundation.even Abraham has not yet been resurecrected into immortality..only Jesus. None other.

Are you sure? Please give Book, Chapter, and verse showing that Abraham never rose from the dead, in ANY form. And be careful. Don't let your prejudice stop you from opening your mind.

 

[Monk Brendan]

But before he was 30...he had not the holy spirit in that body of flesh...

And where did this come in? BCV, please.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Okay, I state this as simply as possible. In post #86 I showed, in Scripture, that Jesus was man AND God at the same time.

As spiritual things are only discerned on a spiritual level, then I have said all I can.

 

[ViaCrucis]

As a Christian who adheres to the faithful teaching of the ancient, holy, and apostolic faith:

I confess one Lord Jesus Christ, fully God and fully human. Begotten of the Father before all ages, God of God, Light of Light, begotten not made, of one Being with the Father. Conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, flesh of her flesh, true man, of a rational soul and body. When He who is eternally Word and Son of God the Father became flesh He did not cease to be what He always was, but took upon Himself the fullness of our nature, thus the true union of God and man together in His one undivided Person; with neither separation nor confusion--truly God and truly man. Because He who always being God has taken our nature upon Himself by His conception and birth from the holy virgin Mary, blessed among women, and for this reason she is honored as Theotokos, birth-giver of God, and mother of God, for her Child is He who from everlasting to everlasting is true and very God. One Lord Jesus, truly God, truly man, our Savior.

This is the holy and true faith of the Christian Church, which I confess and believe. Amen.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Noxot]

In him the fullness of the Godhead dwelt bodily...
Yes indeed.
But before he was 30...he had not the holy spirit in that body of flesh...

the sign of the dove descending and resting on Jesus was not for his sake but rather for those who would look upon him. it is pure folly to think that at some point Jesus did not have the Spirit without measure.

Please defend that statement with Scripture!

you already made quotes about how certain innocent angels were here in the earth so why should I give you a quote? can you not detect someones spirit to see what they are? I can't all the time but knowing an angel is pretty obvious just like seeing the ancient of days is also pretty obvious.

 

[Noxot]

Please show a Scriptural defense of that statement.

consider as I am considering...

in the shepherd of hermas an angel told us that there is a spirit of man that differs from Gods Spirit ( he gave reference to the human spirit of Jesus and how he deserves all honor and dignity) which makes sense seeing that God told us in the NT through an apostle that we have a spirit. so this spirit of man seems to be a human thing. therefore I would not call mans spirit, which Jesus being fully man would have to have, to be the same thing as the Divine Spirit of the Logos seeing that the Logos is not a creature and man is a creature.

but looking at it from the pov that mary gave birth to the Logos would make sense to me as well since mary is the symbol for a virgin soul, which is required if we are to be born from above or born of God.

 

[Monk Brendan]

you already made quotes about how certain innocent angels were here in the earth so why should I give you a quote?

Please show me where I said that.

 

[Noxot]

Please show me where I said that.

you said that gabriel, a holy angel, came to mary... right? or was that someone else. regardless, it shows that sometimes angels descend to earth. which is obvious to anyone that reads the bible.

 

[Monk Brendan]

in the shepherd of hermas

This is NOT Scripture--stay within the Canon.

an angel told us that there is a spirit of man that differs from Gods Spirit ( he gave reference to the human spirit of Jesus and how he deserves all honor and dignity) which makes sense seeing that God told us in the NT through an apostle that we have a spirit.

Most of the above is therefore not Scriptural, and is not the TRUTH.

therefore I would not call mans spirit, which Jesus being fully man would have to have, to be the same thing as the Divine Spirit of the Logos seeing that the Logos is not a creature and man is a creature.

Wrong! Think of Jesus being the intersection of two planes. A plane in infinitely long and wide, but no depth. If Jesus is the intersection between two planes, then He is, at the same time, on both planes AT THE SAME TIME!

 

[Alithis]

the sign of the dove descending and resting on Jesus was not for his sake but rather for those who would look upon him. it is pure folly to think that at some point Jesus did not have the Spirit without measure.



you already made quotes about how certain innocent angels were here in the earth so why should I give you a quote? can you not detect someones spirit to see what they are? I can't all the time but knowing an angel is pretty obvious just like seeing the ancient of days is also pretty obvious.

Bible scripture please .

Or its just off topic .
In not interested in the rabbit Warren .

 

[Alithis]

And where did this come in? BCV, please.

It's a reference to the testimony of John the Baptist.who saw the holy spirit decend .

 

[Monk Brendan]

you said that gabriel, a holy angel, came to mary... right? or was that someone else. regardless, it shows that sometimes angels descend to earth. which is obvious to anyone that reads the bible.

I didn't show you that. It is IN the Bible. As a rule, angels don't inhabit the earth. For the time they are here, they have a physical representation, but after their task is done, they go back to the incorporeal beings they really are.

I have given you the truth as taught by the Bible and almost ALL of Christianity since the descent of the Holy Spirit. It was believed and taught by the Apostles, AND by the leaders of the Reformation. It is not MY fault that you haven't received a firm foundation in sound doctrine.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Excuse me, are you calling Jesus an angel? That won't work either.

I'm not no. But if on the basis of Christ uttering the words I AM is proof he is God himself. Does this mean God is an angel, as the angel.uttered the words I AM to Moses

 

[Monk Brendan]

It's a reference to the testimony of John the Baptist.who saw the holy spirit decend .

Which was a manifestation of the Holy Trinity. Father; "and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased;" Son; "it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him," (from Luke 3)

 

[kepha31]

Or the rediculous assumption. Both assumptions having zero biblical foundation.even Abraham has not yet been resurecrected into immortality..only Jesus. None other.

Mary wasn't resurrected, she was assumed into heaven by the power of Christ. You claim "zero biblical foundation" yet can't find any biblical foundation for
altar call,
Rapture
premillenialism
eternal security
total immersion
sola scriptura
total depravity
faith alone
and a list of unbiblical Protestant doctrines, but demand triple proof texts for each and every Catholic doctrine, practice and devotion. That's a double standard. You can claim indirect inferences or non-explicit biblical support, but Catholics can't???

Gen. 5:24, Heb. 11:5 – Enoch was bodily assumed into heaven without dying. Would God do any less for Mary the Ark of the New Covenant? (Assumptions are not foreign to Scripture, only to those in denial)

2 Kings 2:11-12; 1 Mac 2:58 – Elijah was assumed into heaven in fiery chariot. Jesus would not do any less for His Blessed Mother. (again, assumptions precede Mary's, but first you have to believe the Bible)

Psalm 132:8 – Arise, O Lord, and go to thy resting place, thou and the Ark (Mary) of thy might. Both Jesus and Mary were taken up to their eternal resting place in heaven.

2 Cor. 12:2 – Paul speaks of a man in Christ who was caught up to the third heaven. Mary was also brought up into heaven by God.

Matt. 27:52-53 – when Jesus died and rose, the bodies of the saints were raised. Nothing in Scripture precludes Mary’s assumption into heaven.

1 Thess. 4:17 – we shall be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we shall always be with the Lord. (every dispensationist and his dog will be caught up, but Jesus has no power to do that for His mother???)

Rev. 12:1 – we see Mary, the “woman,” clothed with the sun. While in Rev. 6:9 we only see the souls of the martyrs in heaven, in Rev. 12:1 we see Mary, both body and soul.

2 Thess. 2:15 – Paul instructs us to hold fast to oral (not just written) tradition. Apostolic tradition says Mary was assumed into heaven. While claiming the bones of the saints was a common practice during these times (and would have been especially important to obtain Mary’s bones as she was the Mother of God), Mary’s bones were never claimed. This is because they were not available. Mary was taken up body and soul into heaven.

 

[Noxot]

This is NOT Scripture--stay within the Canon.



Most of the above is therefore not Scriptural, and is not the TRUTH.



Wrong! Think of Jesus being the intersection of two planes. A plane in infinitely long and wide, but no depth. If Jesus is the intersection between two planes, then He is, at the same time, on both planes AT THE SAME TIME!

so are you saying that humans don't have a soul and that spirit is only God?

 

[Alithis]

I know you're not talking to me, but that statement is NOT allowed by the rules of CF.

You sis , to manipulate the rules to hide the fact.
I understand.
But to honour lift up elevate generate make images of pray to defend ..are all acts of worship.
In this forum of the controversial this is not a rule violation.
Of you do not worship her .
Why.mention her at all why defend at all.
There is an utter pointlessness in the action.

For instance I do not worship Santa Claude. So it's one one says things showing Santa Claude is not who slmevsay he is.I do NOT rush to his defense.

Yet here you are.

 

[Alithis]

He is both God, and man, at the same time. If you don't believe that, then you have many more problems than I can begin to address in this forum. Scriptural defenses of this point are many, in books already written, by men much more learned than I am, and holier than I, as well. If you wish, you can PM me, and I will give you a list of some of those books.

Not interested in your bookd of the opinions is dead men .
List your bible scriptures.