2thessalonians2:7

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Hal A Peno]

fvyuo

 

[Douggg]

Seems you have a problem understanding what the temple of God is.Am,i to understand you are not of the temple and that you believe God dwells in stone?
Perhaps you should read what Paul believes to be the temple of God.
After Paul has taught you what he means by ( the temple of god) ,get back to me about the son of perdition who stands amoung a body of believers.
And,yes
I know him by name.

Actually the true temple of God is in heaven. No one knows what material that temple is made of. The earthly things are pattern after the true.

Metaphorically Christians are the temple of God. But prophetically, there will be a temple built by the Jews not too far in the future. It will probably be of minimum size to get the animal sacrifices going again. The sanctuary building, if it followed the size of the tent tabernacle would be roughly 15 x 30 feet, having two rooms.

 

[Hal A Peno]

zsdfhn

 

[miknik5]

Less and less strength?

Or rather, Daniel given more and more truth?

The Holy being...Who is HE?

And why do you think HE who commands Gabriel and whom michael helps was detained "21 days?"

Is it no different than HIM hiding His face (temporarily) from Jacobs struggles?

Daniel 10 has lots in it. One thing is a holy being keeps coming to Daniel in less and less strength so Daniel can talk with him. He strengthens Daniel. He tells him that the vision he saw will befall his people in the latter days. Assures Daniel that he will show him what is written in the scripture of truth.

I will shew thee - Daniel 10
now will I shew thee - Daniel 11

 

[miknik5]

And it still would not be the temple of God

And still the son of perdition will sit in the temple declaring himself to be god

 

[Douggg]

What does it mean that GOD will hide HIS FACE from Jacob's troubles?

I would have to know what verse you are referring to, to even see if I could answer. There are some verses in Ezekiel 39, that read....

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

 

[miknik5]

You always take the word temple/naos figuratively, and I keep telling you there are ways to decipher between the literal and figurative use of the word. In 2 thes. 2, a literal temple/shrine is mentioned. That would be the Dome of the Rock, no temple needs to be reuilt. The rebuilding of a temple is a pipe dream derived from a misinterpretation of the book of Daniel.

Why do you say that when the Jews even today have the plans to rebuild and reinstate animal sacrifices?

In Daniel the first part of the tribulation appears to be the rebuilding of Jerusalem during troublous times

What is this referring to if not the rebuilding of s temple that the ignorant Jews think they need?

And what temporary covenant do you think this man of perdition will enter into with the Jews but to allow them to rebuild Jerusalem during troublous times

What will be rebuilt in Jerusalem?

 

[readywriter]

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

That verse is not hard to understand that the Lord was allowing the Thessalonians and other Christians in their day, troubles caused by the spirit of Antichrist, as part of the growth and expansion of Christianity.

"now letteth"..... referring to the presence time Paul was speaking to the Thessalonians.

"will let"....... actually what is inferred is "continue to let" those same sort of troubles Christians experience caused by the spirit of Antichrist, would continue all the way through history....until....

"he be taken out of the way". Which is a reference to the rapture.

The collective body of believers is the body of Christ. The "he" is the body of Christ that will be taken out of the way. That is, to say, the rapture. The "he" is Jesus, and the "he" taken out of the way is Jesus's body here on earth.

And "then", i.e. after the rapture, the man of sin will be revealed by the act of going into the temple sitting, claiming to be God.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed.......
,

Hello @Douggg,

* You have had 44 responses, but I hope you will not mind receiving one more.

'And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:
only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed,
whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth,
and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan
with all power and signs and lying wonders,'
(2 Thess. 2:6-9)

* Something or someone is restraining or keeping in check the revelation of the man of sin.

* The word, 'withholdeth', and 'let', is translated from the same Greek word, 'katecho', it means' to hold firmly', or 'hold fast'.

* Who and what is it that 'holds fast'? - The answer to, 'What', is found in Rev.9:1,2 and Rev. 11:7, the man of sin is held in 'the bottomless pit', or 'the pit' until the time for his manifestation to the world. The answer to 'Who', - Eph. 2:2 tells us that Satan, as the prince of, 'the power of the air', is the spirit that controls those under his authority.

* Rev. 12:7-17, describes war in heaven; Michael and his angels fight against Satan and the fallen angels under his control, and the Deceiver is cast down to the earth with terrible results, leading to the Great Tribulation. When this happens, as a last desperate throw, Satan calls up his man from the abyss, and for a short time he dominates the whole world. Satan receiving world worship through the Beast.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Hal A Peno]

cfgy

 

[Hal A Peno]

syj

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[David Kent]

now letteth"..... referring to the presence time Paul was speaking to the Thessalonians.

"will let"....... actually what is inferred is "continue to let" those same sort of troubles Christians experience caused by the spirit of Antichrist, would continue all the way through history....until....

"he be taken out of the way". Which is a reference to the rapture.

The collective body of believers is the body of Christ. The "he" is the body of Christ that will be taken out of the way. That is, to say, the rapture. The "he" is Jesus, and the "he" taken out of the way is Jesus's body here on earth.

And "then", i.e. after the rapture, the man of sin will be revealed by the act of going into the temple sitting, claiming to be God.

This is absolute supposition, The early church writers quite correctly said the Roman Empire was the What and the Emperor was the He. This was fulfilled when the Empire and the Emperor were removed to the East. This gave the papacy (the Antichrist) a vacuum to fill.

 

[scottSTANLEY]

Hi scott, Roman 11:25-27 imo does play into the end of the world, the end of the times of the gentiles. Whether that means the end of the gentiles embracing the gospel, while the Jews reject it - or the other possibility the end of the gentiles means the end of the gentile occupation of Jerusalem - or maybe both.

Revelation, I don't know if I would call Isaiah 59 the basis for the book, but the great tribulation timeframe is not intended for the church, that is to say the collective body of Christians. Revelation 12 though, in particular, is about the 7 years as it pertains to Israel. So an entire chapter devoted to Israel and the sealing of the 144,000 in Revelation 7 before the judgments take place - is another indication that the great tribulation is the time of Jacob's troubles, but at the same, during the great tribulation is when Israel turns to Christ.

So, imo, I think we could say in part Revelation is tied to Isaiah 59.

Good connection you highlight of Isaiah 59 to Roman 11:25-27....

Hi Doug,
In Romans 11:25-27 Paul is quoting Isaiah 59:20-21 as taking place before the end of the world. The Gentiles must come to the fullness before the message is given to the Jew. He writes of the fullness in Ephesians 3 and 4. The fullness is not in number but in knowing the love of God.

 

[disciple1]

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

That verse is not hard to understand that the Lord was allowing the Thessalonians and other Christians in their day, troubles caused by the spirit of Antichrist, as part of the growth and expansion of Christianity.

"now letteth"..... referring to the presence time Paul was speaking to the Thessalonians.

"will let"....... actually what is inferred is "continue to let" those same sort of troubles Christians experience caused by the spirit of Antichrist, would continue all the way through history....until....

"he be taken out of the way". Which is a reference to the rapture.

The collective body of believers is the body of Christ. The "he" is the body of Christ that will be taken out of the way. That is, to say, the rapture. The "he" is Jesus, and the "he" taken out of the way is Jesus's body here on earth.

And "then", i.e. after the rapture, the man of sin will be revealed by the act of going into the temple sitting, claiming to be God.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed.......
,

the man of sin will be revealed by the act of going into the temple sitting, claiming to be God.

I don't know much about this but could the man of sin be the pastors, most of them don't know the word of God and if you look all through the bible most of them never did, the only good verse in the bible I can find about pastors is how beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news, but I don't know of a single pastor who brings good news, so I can't find nothing good about pastors.
Look at Joel Olesteen.

 

[jgr]

The early church believed that the imperial Roman empire, under which the church was then living, was the restrainer which would eventually be "taken out of the way", but which was forestalling the emergence of the papal Roman empire, which Paul describes as the lawless one; and its accompanying apostasy. Notice in the related verses in 2 Thess. 2 that Paul does not reveal the identity of the restrainer. If Paul had believed that the Holy Spirit or the Church was the restrainer, there would have been no reason for him not to explicitly name either one. But Paul did have a reason. John Chrysostom, an apologist of the later early post-apostolic era, reveals it:

"Because if he meant to say the Spirit, he would not have spoken obscurely, but plainly, that even now the grace of the Spirit, that is the gifts, withhold him...But because he said this of the Roman empire, he naturally glanced at it, and speaks covertly and darkly. For he did not wish to bring upon himself superfluous enmities, and useless dangers. For if he had said that after a little while the Roman empire would be dissolved, they would immediately have even overwhelmed him, as a pestilent person, and all the faithful, as living and warring to this end."

Paul did not wish to jeopardize the Church by attracting the attention of the Roman authorities.

History subsequently confirmed the inspired prescience of Paul's admonitions, as the apostasy of the Roman papacy unfolded over the centuries.

 

[Douggg]

Hello @Douggg,

* You have had 44 responses, but I hope you will not mind receiving one more.

'And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:
only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed,
whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth,
and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan
with all power and signs and lying wonders,'
(2 Thess. 2:6-9)

* Something or someone is restraining or keeping in check the revelation of the man of sin.

* The word, 'withholdeth', and 'let', is translated from the same Greek word, 'katecho', it means' to hold firmly', or 'hold fast'.

* Who and what is it that 'holds fast'? - The answer to, 'What', is found in Rev.9:1,2 and Rev. 11:7, the man of sin is held in 'the bottomless pit', or 'the pit' until the time for his manifestation to the world. The answer to 'Who', - Eph. 2:2 tells us that Satan, as the prince of, 'the power of the air', is the spirit that controls those under his authority.

* Rev. 12:7-17, describes war in heaven; Michael and his angels fight against Satan and the fallen angels under his control, and the Deceiver is cast down to the earth with terrible results, leading to the Great Tribulation. When this happens, as a last desperate throw, Satan calls up his man from the abyss, and for a short time he dominates the whole world. Satan receiving world worship through the Beast.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris, whether it be "let" or "withholdeth", the net interpretation is that Jesus, all power in heaven and earth given unto him, both let the spirit of Antichrist work back in the Thessalonians day and also restrained it.

It is in similitude to back in the story of Job, God let Satan do bad things to Job; but at the same time, God restrained what Satan was allowed to do.

The important thing is the until "he be taken out of the way". Which would be rapture.

The Antichrist committing the Transgression of Desolation results in the Day of the Lord, which is a time of wrath taking place and judgments affecting all them who dwell on the earth during that time. Christians are not appointed unto wrath - but do have tribulation and troubles during their lifetimes.

In Revelation 12, you point out Michael and his angels fighting against Satan and his angels. Actually, that will take place three months or so after the Antichrist does the act in 2thessalonians2:4.

It is very interwoven into the prophecies that it can be no other way.... backed by an analysis of the crowns on the heads and horns being different in Revelation 12, 13, 17 - which you may say what does that have to do with the timing of the war in heaven in Revelation 12?

What it has to do with is when the person becomes the beast. It is the person as the beast in Revelation 11, who kills the two witnesses on day 1260 - the end of their testimony time stated in Revelation 11:3.

So when we go to Revelation 12:6, those 1260 days immediately precede the war in heaven and Satan being kicked down. The Woman going into the wilderness during the 1260days, as the Jews flee Jerusalem, as the Abomination of Desolation statue will have been setup.

When the two witnesses are killed, the window of fleeing is essentially shut, and them stuck in Jerusalem are them in Revelation 12:14, the remainder, the remanant.

So following the two witnesses coming back to life and ascending to heaven, the 7th trumpet sounds - which signals "time no more" for Satan and his kingdom having dominion over the earth - and the kingdoms of this world becoming the kingdoms of God and his Christ. It begins a 42 month process, which the first step is the war in heaven (the second heaven) and Satan and his angels cast down to earth - their home found there no more - as at the end of the seven years , in Revelation 6, the sixth seal, the cosmos is going to be removed.

That's a lot of material I went over.... in outline form it would look like this:

1. The person becomes the Antichrist, anointed the King of Israel, instead of and against Jesus the rightful King.
2. During the first 3 years 3 months (thereabouts) the falling away takes place. People leave Christianity.
3. Unexpectedly the Antichrist, having become convinced in his heart that he has achieved God-hood,
commits the Act of 2thessalonians2:4, revealing himself as the man of sin. It ends his time as the Antichrist because the Jews mortified will disown him as continuing as their King.
4. In Ezekiel 28:1-10, God has the person killed for his audacious act - the wording in those verses include "sit", magnified himself in his heart as God (Daniel 8:25). The person is sent to hell.
5. In Isaiah 14:19-20, God in disdain for the person, doesn't allow him to remain there and cast him out of the grave, brings him back to life - it is then the person becomes the beast.
6. The false prophet has an image made of him, the AoD. From Daniel 12:12, by the 1335 days, we can determined that the AoD will be setup on day 1185 on the 7 year timeline. It is then the two witness start their war with the beast - as the Jews flee.
7. When the two witnesses are killed and come back to life on day 1263.5 and leave this world - that leaves the 42 months (not a exact equivalent of 1260 days) which the beast will rule unhampered by the two witnesses.
8. Also, at the time the two witnesses ascend, the seventh trumpet sounds, the war in heaven takes places, and Satan casts down for the time, times, half times.

Okay, that was a lengthy explanation (by necessity) regarding Michael and the war in heaven .....and the timing of the 2thessalonians2:4 act takes place around 3 months before then.

And the reason it is not Michael doing the letting and the restraining is basically what takes place is a re-enactment of God as in the book of Job, in allowing troubles for righteous person at the hands of evil - but putting a restraint on evil at the same time. In 2thessalonians2:7, it is not restraining or letting the person from doing the act - but letting and restraining the spirit of Antichrist to work in the world -affecting the righteous until they be taken out of the way. Then the Day of the Lord will take place on evil.

 

[Douggg]

This is absolute supposition, The early church writers quite correctly said the Roman Empire was the What and the Emperor was the He. This was fulfilled when the Empire and the Emperor were removed to the East. This gave the papacy (the Antichrist) a vacuum to fill.

Hi David, the problem (and impossibility) with the Antichrist being the papacy (or Pope) is that that the person has to be anointed the King of Israel. Which for that to happen, the person must be a Jew, his religion Judaism, and convince the Jews that he is descended from King David - for them to embrace him as their messiah.

Put the prefix "Anti" in front of Christ the King of Israel, and you have what the Antichrist will be... for a short period of time.

31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.

32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

 

[David Kent]

The early church believed that the imperial Roman empire, under which the church was then living, was the restrainer which would eventually be "taken out of the way", but which was forestalling the emergence of the papal Roman empire, which Paul describes as the lawless one; and its accompanying apostasy. Notice in the related verses in 2 Thess. 2 that Paul does not reveal the identity of the restrainer. If Paul had believed that the Holy Spirit or the Church was the restrainer, there would have been no reason for him not to explicitly name either one. But Paul did have a reason. John Chrysostom, an apologist of the later early post-apostolic era, reveals it:

"Because if he meant to say the Spirit, he would not have spoken obscurely, but plainly, that even now the grace of the Spirit, that is the gifts, withhold him...But because he said this of the Roman empire, he naturally glanced at it, and speaks covertly and darkly. For he did not wish to bring upon himself superfluous enmities, and useless dangers. For if he had said that after a little while the Roman empire would be dissolved, they would immediately have even overwhelmed him, as a pestilent person, and all the faithful, as living and warring to this end."

Paul did not wish to jeopardize the Church by attracting the attention of the Roman authorities.

History subsequently confirmed the inspired prescience of Paul's admonitions, as the apostasy of the Roman papacy unfolded over the centuries.

Absolutely. They believed the Antichrist would come after the empire was removed and then would come the end. They could have only known what the restrainer and the let were because Paul told them.

2 Thess 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

From 1260 when the papacy reached its full persecuting powers the Waldensians recognised the Antichrist, see their Treatise on Antichrist. The reformers recognised this independently. It was only when the cardinals of the RCC brought two opposing views that the Antichrist was in the past (preterism began by Alcazar) and when that didn't work they said he must be in the future (futurism taught by Balarmine and others) This was not excepted by the reformers till the early 19th century when Edward Irving and others began to teach it about 1825. It is now the dominant belief, but those that hold it don't realise its origins.