Is music a 'thing of this world' or can it be proven to be 'Holy'?

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I tend to only listen to songs that I find good regardless of what others think about them because i'm not those people so i'm not in the same conditions as those people are in and therefore the music will affect me differently than X other personality matrix.

sure there are even some willfully made evil songs but the worst of all are those songs that appear to have no substance whatsoever. it's kind of scary when I see people walking around singing that kind of music because it's so unsophisticated but I guess I could still admire that it is at least honest about how those singers and perhaps listeners perceive the world.

those types of simple songs are obvious reflections of the flesh.
 
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disciple1

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I question whether men can 'create' that which is 'Holy' without the direct instruction of God.

We see objects created, (Ark of the Covenant. Items to be placed in the Temple. A staff with snakes on it. Etc..........), by the direct instruction of God Himself.

But we have the commandment given to the Hebrews NOT to create 'graven images'.

So it's obvious the commandment doesn't include direct instruction from God. What it means is we are not to 'take it upon OURSELVES' to make 'graven images'.

Now, music. Go back and read WHO those were that created the first 'musical instruments'. What 'lineage'.

Now, a simple question: Is music a 'thing of this world'? If you say 'some' or 'no', then please explain to me how men are capable of creating that which is Holy. Prove to me that any song ever written was inspired by God.

Yes, we read that David 'danced' and 'sang' running around naked. We see Moses sister dancing and singing.

But show me where dancing and singing were practiced by Christ, or His apostles. Show me where people SANG in the gathering. Or 'danced' in the 'gathering'.

Let us examine this as it EXISTS. Not how one 'feels' or what satisfies their 'lusts'. Let us examine it without any 'influence'.

How 'important' is music in today's 'churches'? What amount of effort and energy is expended towards 'music'? How much money is spent on it. What does the 'Music Director' get paid? What percentage of the gathering is devoted to 'music'?

Now, show me the information offered in the NT that we are to offer such devotion to MUSIC. Where is THAT 'instruction' in the Bible?

If it were SO important as to take up a major portion of the 'collection', a major portion of the TIME spent in the gathering, do you REALLY believe that God would have left this UP TO US to determine? Or would He have offered some INSTRUCTION as to it's PLACE in the gathering.

We are given quite a bit of information about 'the gathering'. Mostly what we SHOULDN'T be doing. But NOTHING offered concerning 'music' being offered such a "high place" in The Church.

So if God didn't inspire the 'concept', who DID? Where did the IDEA come from?

Is music 'a thing of this world'? That is the ONLY question that needs to be answered to find the beginning of the path to knowledge concerning 'music' and it's PLACE in the 'churches'.

If you SAY: "It is inspired by God", PROVE it. Show me the EVIDENCE that music is a product of the direct inspiration of God. Otherwise, it's OBVIOUS that music is a 'thing of this world'. Created by MEN. But the scary part is trying to answer this question: "Where does the inspiration come from"? For if not 'of God', then 'something else'.

I assure you, there are people that enjoy the music in the 'church' more than learning about God or His Son. People that would not attend a 'church' without the 'music'. Yet no evidence in the entire NT that supports it 'in the church'.

Bible Gateway offer these TWO uses of the word music in the ENTIRE NT:

Luke 15:25
Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.

Revelation 18:22
And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee

These are the 'two' references to 'singing' found in the NT:

Ephesians 5:19
Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Notice that in the first we are to 'speak to OURSELVES' and that the 'melody' is to made 'in our hearts'.

The second offers NO evidence as to HOW we are discern what is indicated to be encouraged. How are we to determine a 'properly inspired' hymn? Just 'guess'? Or is anything written and devoted to 'a' god able to be 'Holy' by simply choosing ONE 'god' or another?

In other words, could I write a 'hymn' devoted to Satan who I call God? Could I sing a hymn devoted to the 'god' of this world? Could praise be offered to Satan in the guise of a hymn?

My point: Show me ONE song that can be proven to be "Holy". Simply offer 'evidence' that it is "Holy".

For you see, it is nothing other than 'influence'. And Satan is more than capable of 'mimicking' anything involving God.

Yes, he can be recognized by them that know HOW. But how many BELIEVE that they can recognize the Devil but are merely fooling themselves into a false sense of security?

Is 'music' a 'thing of this world'? Where did it 'come from'? It's 'inspiration'?

Just LOOK at how influential music is and what it appeals to. It appeals to the FLESH. We can be convinced to LOVE IT. Look how many people devote their entire LIVES to it. Yet what does it actually PRODUCE. Look at the IDOLS we make of those that 'make music' that we LOVE. And look at what a 'song' can DO TO US. Even those that are OBVIOUSLY 'evil' by their very nature.

Ever been to an AC/DC concert? Ever seen what happens to the audience when they perform "Highway to Hell"? I've never seen a group of people that are drunk or high join in something like the audience at one of their concerts when they perform this song. Yet it's like a Satanic Anthem. Where do you suppose THAT influence comes from? God? Or the 'god of this world'?

And just look at the 'appeal' of the performer through their MUSIC. They are like 'Pied Pipers'. People fall in LOVE with them that don't know ANYTHING about them other than the 'music'. Isn't that inherently DANGEROUS. To offer one's devotion to another that they DON'T EVEN KNOW. Only KNOW them through their MUSIC.

And just LOOK how corrupt most are when we DO get to 'know them'.

So, I ask: "Is music a 'thing of this world?" Or can you PROVE to me that there is ONE song that was directly inspired by God?

Blessings

MEC
Matthew chapter 26 verse 30
When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

Mark chapter 14 verse 26
When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.




I don't like the new Christian music, I like old hymns, that's what I play on my harmonica on the street.
 
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Victory-N-Christ

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I question whether men can 'create' that which is 'Holy' without the direct instruction of God.

We see objects created, (Ark of the Covenant. Items to be placed in the Temple. A staff with snakes on it. Etc..........), by the direct instruction of God Himself.

But we have the commandment given to the Hebrews NOT to create 'graven images'.

So it's obvious the commandment doesn't include direct instruction from God. What it means is we are not to 'take it upon OURSELVES' to make 'graven images'.

Now, music. Go back and read WHO those were that created the first 'musical instruments'. What 'lineage'.

Now, a simple question: Is music a 'thing of this world'? If you say 'some' or 'no', then please explain to me how men are capable of creating that which is Holy. Prove to me that any song ever written was inspired by God.

Yes, we read that David 'danced' and 'sang' running around naked. We see Moses sister dancing and singing.

But show me where dancing and singing were practiced by Christ, or His apostles. Show me where people SANG in the gathering. Or 'danced' in the 'gathering'.

Let us examine this as it EXISTS. Not how one 'feels' or what satisfies their 'lusts'. Let us examine it without any 'influence'.

How 'important' is music in today's 'churches'? What amount of effort and energy is expended towards 'music'? How much money is spent on it. What does the 'Music Director' get paid? What percentage of the gathering is devoted to 'music'?

Now, show me the information offered in the NT that we are to offer such devotion to MUSIC. Where is THAT 'instruction' in the Bible?

If it were SO important as to take up a major portion of the 'collection', a major portion of the TIME spent in the gathering, do you REALLY believe that God would have left this UP TO US to determine? Or would He have offered some INSTRUCTION as to it's PLACE in the gathering.

We are given quite a bit of information about 'the gathering'. Mostly what we SHOULDN'T be doing. But NOTHING offered concerning 'music' being offered such a "high place" in The Church.

So if God didn't inspire the 'concept', who DID? Where did the IDEA come from?

Is music 'a thing of this world'? That is the ONLY question that needs to be answered to find the beginning of the path to knowledge concerning 'music' and it's PLACE in the 'churches'.

If you SAY: "It is inspired by God", PROVE it. Show me the EVIDENCE that music is a product of the direct inspiration of God. Otherwise, it's OBVIOUS that music is a 'thing of this world'. Created by MEN. But the scary part is trying to answer this question: "Where does the inspiration come from"? For if not 'of God', then 'something else'.

I assure you, there are people that enjoy the music in the 'church' more than learning about God or His Son. People that would not attend a 'church' without the 'music'. Yet no evidence in the entire NT that supports it 'in the church'.

Bible Gateway offer these TWO uses of the word music in the ENTIRE NT:

Luke 15:25
Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.

Revelation 18:22
And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee

These are the 'two' references to 'singing' found in the NT:

Ephesians 5:19
Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Notice that in the first we are to 'speak to OURSELVES' and that the 'melody' is to made 'in our hearts'.

The second offers NO evidence as to HOW we are discern what is indicated to be encouraged. How are we to determine a 'properly inspired' hymn? Just 'guess'? Or is anything written and devoted to 'a' god able to be 'Holy' by simply choosing ONE 'god' or another?

In other words, could I write a 'hymn' devoted to Satan who I call God? Could I sing a hymn devoted to the 'god' of this world? Could praise be offered to Satan in the guise of a hymn?

My point: Show me ONE song that can be proven to be "Holy". Simply offer 'evidence' that it is "Holy".

For you see, it is nothing other than 'influence'. And Satan is more than capable of 'mimicking' anything involving God.

Yes, he can be recognized by them that know HOW. But how many BELIEVE that they can recognize the Devil but are merely fooling themselves into a false sense of security?

Is 'music' a 'thing of this world'? Where did it 'come from'? It's 'inspiration'?

Just LOOK at how influential music is and what it appeals to. It appeals to the FLESH. We can be convinced to LOVE IT. Look how many people devote their entire LIVES to it. Yet what does it actually PRODUCE. Look at the IDOLS we make of those that 'make music' that we LOVE. And look at what a 'song' can DO TO US. Even those that are OBVIOUSLY 'evil' by their very nature.

Ever been to an AC/DC concert? Ever seen what happens to the audience when they perform "Highway to Hell"? I've never seen a group of people that are drunk or high join in something like the audience at one of their concerts when they perform this song. Yet it's like a Satanic Anthem. Where do you suppose THAT influence comes from? God? Or the 'god of this world'?

And just look at the 'appeal' of the performer through their MUSIC. They are like 'Pied Pipers'. People fall in LOVE with them that don't know ANYTHING about them other than the 'music'. Isn't that inherently DANGEROUS. To offer one's devotion to another that they DON'T EVEN KNOW. Only KNOW them through their MUSIC.

And just LOOK how corrupt most are when we DO get to 'know them'.

So, I ask: "Is music a 'thing of this world?" Or can you PROVE to me that there is ONE song that was directly inspired by God?

Blessings

MEC
In 2nd Chronicles chapter 28 king Ahaz had shut the doors on the temple.He was a wicked man in other areas as well but his son Hezekiah opened the church ( temple) doors back up for the regular service and amongst the many things which he did was to restore the Priests and Levites to their duties.
2nd Chronicles 29:25 And he (Hezekiah) set the Levites in the house of the Lord with cymbals,with psalteries, and with harps according to the commandment of David and of Gad the King's seer,and Nathan the prophet for so was the *commandment of the Lord* by his prophets.
28: And all the congregation worshipped and the singers sang and the trumpets sounded and all this continued until the burnt offering was finished.
30: Moreover Hezekiah the king and the princes commanded the Levite's to sing praise unto the Lord with the words of David and of Asaph the seer.And they sang praises with gladness and they bowed their heads and worshipped".
David was a gifted lyricist and composer but he was also lead of the Holy spirit to write songs of praise to the LORD. Particularly when he was in trouble or distress.Psalms 23 is the most famous song in scripture IMHO.
Remember that David's playing of the harp soothed king Saul when an evil spirit from God distressed him.
1st Samuel 16:14-23.
So music can influence our moods and emotions.
All I'm saying is that music can have a strong influence either negative or positive.
 
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dqhall

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You may find wicked bad lyrics in music, but can you find the good? The entire book of Psalms is songs.
I question whether men can 'create' that which is 'Holy' without the direct instruction of God.

We see objects created, (Ark of the Covenant. Items to be placed in the Temple. A staff with snakes on it. Etc..........), by the direct instruction of God Himself.

But we have the commandment given to the Hebrews NOT to create 'graven images'.

So it's obvious the commandment doesn't include direct instruction from God. What it means is we are not to 'take it upon OURSELVES' to make 'graven images'.

Now, music. Go back and read WHO those were that created the first 'musical instruments'. What 'lineage'.

Now, a simple question: Is music a 'thing of this world'? If you say 'some' or 'no', then please explain to me how men are capable of creating that which is Holy. Prove to me that any song ever written was inspired by God.

Yes, we read that David 'danced' and 'sang' running around naked. We see Moses sister dancing and singing.

But show me where dancing and singing were practiced by Christ, or His apostles. Show me where people SANG in the gathering. Or 'danced' in the 'gathering'.

Let us examine this as it EXISTS. Not how one 'feels' or what satisfies their 'lusts'. Let us examine it without any 'influence'.

How 'important' is music in today's 'churches'? What amount of effort and energy is expended towards 'music'? How much money is spent on it. What does the 'Music Director' get paid? What percentage of the gathering is devoted to 'music'?

Now, show me the information offered in the NT that we are to offer such devotion to MUSIC. Where is THAT 'instruction' in the Bible?

If it were SO important as to take up a major portion of the 'collection', a major portion of the TIME spent in the gathering, do you REALLY believe that God would have left this UP TO US to determine? Or would He have offered some INSTRUCTION as to it's PLACE in the gathering.

We are given quite a bit of information about 'the gathering'. Mostly what we SHOULDN'T be doing. But NOTHING offered concerning 'music' being offered such a "high place" in The Church.

So if God didn't inspire the 'concept', who DID? Where did the IDEA come from?

Is music 'a thing of this world'? That is the ONLY question that needs to be answered to find the beginning of the path to knowledge concerning 'music' and it's PLACE in the 'churches'.

If you SAY: "It is inspired by God", PROVE it. Show me the EVIDENCE that music is a product of the direct inspiration of God. Otherwise, it's OBVIOUS that music is a 'thing of this world'. Created by MEN. But the scary part is trying to answer this question: "Where does the inspiration come from"? For if not 'of God', then 'something else'.

I assure you, there are people that enjoy the music in the 'church' more than learning about God or His Son. People that would not attend a 'church' without the 'music'. Yet no evidence in the entire NT that supports it 'in the church'.

Bible Gateway offer these TWO uses of the word music in the ENTIRE NT:

Luke 15:25
Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.

Revelation 18:22
And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee

These are the 'two' references to 'singing' found in the NT:

Ephesians 5:19
Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Notice that in the first we are to 'speak to OURSELVES' and that the 'melody' is to made 'in our hearts'.

The second offers NO evidence as to HOW we are discern what is indicated to be encouraged. How are we to determine a 'properly inspired' hymn? Just 'guess'? Or is anything written and devoted to 'a' god able to be 'Holy' by simply choosing ONE 'god' or another?

In other words, could I write a 'hymn' devoted to Satan who I call God? Could I sing a hymn devoted to the 'god' of this world? Could praise be offered to Satan in the guise of a hymn?

My point: Show me ONE song that can be proven to be "Holy". Simply offer 'evidence' that it is "Holy".

For you see, it is nothing other than 'influence'. And Satan is more than capable of 'mimicking' anything involving God.

Yes, he can be recognized by them that know HOW. But how many BELIEVE that they can recognize the Devil but are merely fooling themselves into a false sense of security?

Is 'music' a 'thing of this world'? Where did it 'come from'? It's 'inspiration'?

Just LOOK at how influential music is and what it appeals to. It appeals to the FLESH. We can be convinced to LOVE IT. Look how many people devote their entire LIVES to it. Yet what does it actually PRODUCE. Look at the IDOLS we make of those that 'make music' that we LOVE. And look at what a 'song' can DO TO US. Even those that are OBVIOUSLY 'evil' by their very nature.

Ever been to an AC/DC concert? Ever seen what happens to the audience when they perform "Highway to Hell"? I've never seen a group of people that are drunk or high join in something like the audience at one of their concerts when they perform this song. Yet it's like a Satanic Anthem. Where do you suppose THAT influence comes from? God? Or the 'god of this world'?

And just look at the 'appeal' of the performer through their MUSIC. They are like 'Pied Pipers'. People fall in LOVE with them that don't know ANYTHING about them other than the 'music'. Isn't that inherently DANGEROUS. To offer one's devotion to another that they DON'T EVEN KNOW. Only KNOW them through their MUSIC.

And just LOOK how corrupt most are when we DO get to 'know them'.

So, I ask: "Is music a 'thing of this world?" Or can you PROVE to me that there is ONE song that was directly inspired by God?

Blessings

MEC

A hymn I heard in church about thirty years ago and like to this day:

Therefore, they shall come and sing in the height of Zion,
And shall flow together to the goodness of the Lord,
For wheat, and for wine, and for oil, and for the young,
for the young of the flock and of the herd:
And their soul shall be as a watered garden;
And they shall not sorrow any more at all.

Hymn: Therefore, they shall come and sing in the height of Zion
 
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Apex

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John explains exactly what it means to be worldly. If you read all of 1 John we see John contrasting love for the world and love for God.

1 John 2:15-16
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.

These desires and attitudes are opposed to God because the focus of this worldly love is no longer on God or others. Being worldly means not following Jesus' command to have selfless love for our neighbor.

1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.
 
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thetruth0

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Lucifer is not the devil and never was. Just a term meaning Morning Star referring to a Babylonin king. The only reason people think otherwise is because they ignore context and just cherrypick verses that they project their preconceived ideas even though they're completely incorrect.
so what do you think babylon is? Im referring to Mystery Babylon. Who is its king?
 
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thetruth0

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The human king of Babylon, that's all.
No thats not correct. lucifer is the king of babylon and he is accompanied by 6 other tare Cherubs and 1 tare Seraph. But after reading your many comments, it is clear that you are not Spiritual, or even a believer. However, this is the truth.

the 7 heads of the beast are Spiritual kingdoms that satan set up. Each kingdom is headed by a Cherub and the Seraph. This is what shall be brought down in the day of the Son of Man as it is written. However, the kings of the earth are the tare Angels who operate under the tare Cherub lucifer. When it is written, "the kingdoms of darkness" it is revealing that his kingdom is not a unorganised attack. Babylon is the satanic inventions and strategies devised by lucifer to keep Mankind in bondage, to enslave mankind.

Revelations is a book of Prophetic Language, meaning it is Prophetic. It is not to be taken literally, nor to be understood by the brain. These things have been coded until now, that all the famous writers you have seen have all tried to link it to a country, revealing that they were not being moved by the Most Holy Spirit.

-I typed up all this for others who may read it, not so much for you as you clearly are not Spiritual.
 
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No thats not correct. lucifer is the king of babylon and he is accompanied by 6 other tare Cherubs and 1 tare Seraph. But after reading your many comments, it is clear that you are not Spiritual, or even a believer. However, this is the truth.

the 7 heads of the beast are Spiritual kingdoms that satan set up. Each kingdom is headed by a Cherub and the Seraph. This is what shall be brought down in the day of the Son of Man as it is written. However, the kings of the earth are the tare Angels who operate under the tare Cherub lucifer. When it is written, "the kingdoms of darkness" it is revealing that his kingdom is not a unorganised attack. Babylon is the satanic inventions and strategies devised by lucifer to keep Mankind in bondage, to enslave mankind.

Revelations is a book of Prophetic Language, meaning it is Prophetic. It is not to be taken literally, nor to be understood by the brain. These things have been coded until now, that all the famous writers you have seen have all tried to link it to a country, revealing that they were not being moved by the Most Holy Spirit.

-I typed up all this for others who may read it, not so much for you as you clearly are not Spiritual.

There's nothing what soever that connects the Babylonian king referred to as Lucifer with anything regarding Revelation or Satan. You're projecting nonexistent meaning again.

And to call me a non-believer because I question things and I actually READ and acknowledge context is a bit insulting.
 
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thetruth0

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There's nothing what soever that connects the Babylonian king referred to as Lucifer with anything regarding Revelation or Satan. You're projecting nonexistent meaning again.

And to call me a non-believer because I question things and I actually READ and acknowledge context is a bit insulting.

What do you believe? In all your responses ive read, you don't sound like a believer. Nebuchadnezzar is playing the role of lucifer, which is why he is the king of babylon. Daniel is in the role of the Son of Man which is why he judged them.

Revelations is Spiritual, as is the bible in its entirety. They are WORDS of Prophecy. So, they cannot be understood by the brain. you don't even know the context because you don't know anything Spiritual.
 
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Strong in Him

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I question whether men can 'create' that which is 'Holy' without the direct instruction of God.

If you believe that all humans are created by God, in his image, Genesis 1:26-27, then everything that anyone has, is from God. They may not believe, or recognize it, but that's how it is. Genesis also says that mankind only had life because God put his Spirit in him - i.e human beings owe their very lives to God.

So if God can create and sing, humans can too.

We see objects created, (Ark of the Covenant. Items to be placed in the Temple. A staff with snakes on it. Etc..........), by the direct instruction of God Himself.

But we have the commandment given to the Hebrews NOT to create 'graven images'.

So it's obvious the commandment doesn't include direct instruction from God. What it means is we are not to 'take it upon OURSELVES' to make 'graven images'.

God told the Israelites to make the ark of the covenant, mercy seat etc; they all had a purpose in the worship of God.
But making their own gods - e.g. a God of rain, a God of the harvest - and worshipping them, was forbidden.

Now, a simple question: Is music a 'thing of this world'? If you say 'some' or 'no', then please explain to me how men are capable of creating that which is Holy.

Music is not the same as songs.
Music is music - tunes; notes on a scale. It can, imo, be neither sacred nor secular.

Prove to me that any song ever written was inspired by God.

With respect, why do we need to prove anything to you?
If a Christian hymn/song writer says that God inspired them to write hymns of praise, and the ability to write music, can you prove otherwise?

But show me where dancing and singing were practiced by Christ, or His apostles. Show me where people SANG in the gathering. Or 'danced' in the 'gathering'.

Jesus and the disciples were Jews; the Jewish hymn book was the Psalms. They sang a Psalm after the Last Supper.

And are you saying that unless we can prove that Jesus did something, it's not valid? You'd better get off your computer then.

In the Psalms we are told to make music and use instruments to praise God. In Zephaniah we are told that God rejoices over US with singing. Solomon had a band of musicians to play when the temple was dedicated. In Revelation, those around the throne have harps and are continually singing and praising God.

Like anything else, music can become a god, and we might worship IT instead of using it TO worship the One who made it.
But there's no need to ban music because a few people might misuse it.
 
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I question whether men can 'create' that which is 'Holy' without the direct instruction of God.

We see objects created, (Ark of the Covenant. Items to be placed in the Temple. A staff with snakes on it. Etc..........), by the direct instruction of God Himself.

But we have the commandment given to the Hebrews NOT to create 'graven images'.

So it's obvious the commandment doesn't include direct instruction from God. What it means is we are not to 'take it upon OURSELVES' to make 'graven images'.

Now, music. Go back and read WHO those were that created the first 'musical instruments'. What 'lineage'.

Now, a simple question: Is music a 'thing of this world'? If you say 'some' or 'no', then please explain to me how men are capable of creating that which is Holy. Prove to me that any song ever written was inspired by God.

Yes, we read that David 'danced' and 'sang' running around naked. We see Moses sister dancing and singing.

But show me where dancing and singing were practiced by Christ, or His apostles. Show me where people SANG in the gathering. Or 'danced' in the 'gathering'.

Let us examine this as it EXISTS. Not how one 'feels' or what satisfies their 'lusts'. Let us examine it without any 'influence'.

How 'important' is music in today's 'churches'? What amount of effort and energy is expended towards 'music'? How much money is spent on it. What does the 'Music Director' get paid? What percentage of the gathering is devoted to 'music'?

Now, show me the information offered in the NT that we are to offer such devotion to MUSIC. Where is THAT 'instruction' in the Bible?

If it were SO important as to take up a major portion of the 'collection', a major portion of the TIME spent in the gathering, do you REALLY believe that God would have left this UP TO US to determine? Or would He have offered some INSTRUCTION as to it's PLACE in the gathering.

We are given quite a bit of information about 'the gathering'. Mostly what we SHOULDN'T be doing. But NOTHING offered concerning 'music' being offered such a "high place" in The Church.

So if God didn't inspire the 'concept', who DID? Where did the IDEA come from?

Is music 'a thing of this world'? That is the ONLY question that needs to be answered to find the beginning of the path to knowledge concerning 'music' and it's PLACE in the 'churches'.

If you SAY: "It is inspired by God", PROVE it. Show me the EVIDENCE that music is a product of the direct inspiration of God. Otherwise, it's OBVIOUS that music is a 'thing of this world'. Created by MEN. But the scary part is trying to answer this question: "Where does the inspiration come from"? For if not 'of God', then 'something else'.

I assure you, there are people that enjoy the music in the 'church' more than learning about God or His Son. People that would not attend a 'church' without the 'music'. Yet no evidence in the entire NT that supports it 'in the church'.

Bible Gateway offer these TWO uses of the word music in the ENTIRE NT:

Luke 15:25
Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.

Revelation 18:22
And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee

These are the 'two' references to 'singing' found in the NT:

Ephesians 5:19
Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Notice that in the first we are to 'speak to OURSELVES' and that the 'melody' is to made 'in our hearts'.

The second offers NO evidence as to HOW we are discern what is indicated to be encouraged. How are we to determine a 'properly inspired' hymn? Just 'guess'? Or is anything written and devoted to 'a' god able to be 'Holy' by simply choosing ONE 'god' or another?

In other words, could I write a 'hymn' devoted to Satan who I call God? Could I sing a hymn devoted to the 'god' of this world? Could praise be offered to Satan in the guise of a hymn?

My point: Show me ONE song that can be proven to be "Holy". Simply offer 'evidence' that it is "Holy".

For you see, it is nothing other than 'influence'. And Satan is more than capable of 'mimicking' anything involving God.

Yes, he can be recognized by them that know HOW. But how many BELIEVE that they can recognize the Devil but are merely fooling themselves into a false sense of security?

Is 'music' a 'thing of this world'? Where did it 'come from'? It's 'inspiration'?

Just LOOK at how influential music is and what it appeals to. It appeals to the FLESH. We can be convinced to LOVE IT. Look how many people devote their entire LIVES to it. Yet what does it actually PRODUCE. Look at the IDOLS we make of those that 'make music' that we LOVE. And look at what a 'song' can DO TO US. Even those that are OBVIOUSLY 'evil' by their very nature.

Ever been to an AC/DC concert? Ever seen what happens to the audience when they perform "Highway to Hell"? I've never seen a group of people that are drunk or high join in something like the audience at one of their concerts when they perform this song. Yet it's like a Satanic Anthem. Where do you suppose THAT influence comes from? God? Or the 'god of this world'?

And just look at the 'appeal' of the performer through their MUSIC. They are like 'Pied Pipers'. People fall in LOVE with them that don't know ANYTHING about them other than the 'music'. Isn't that inherently DANGEROUS. To offer one's devotion to another that they DON'T EVEN KNOW. Only KNOW them through their MUSIC.

And just LOOK how corrupt most are when we DO get to 'know them'.

So, I ask: "Is music a 'thing of this world?" Or can you PROVE to me that there is ONE song that was directly inspired by God?

Blessings

MEC
Kind of a black and white way of looking at God's creation, don't you think? We should try, firstly, to remember that we are made in the image and likeness of God. I have observed and understood through philosophy (aesthetics), that there IS inherent beauty available in art, be it painting, sculpture, prose and poetry, and of course music which can be one of the most beautiful expressions of all. True objective beauty is written in our hearts, and is unmistakeable when seen or heard. God gives all persons different talents, and ways to both express and experience His great love for us. Since we are also a fallen people, the arts can also be used to upset, turn off, and divide people as well. Evil and lukewarmness can also be portrayed in bad art and music, but we are given the ability to discern objective beauty from objective ugliness because of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit within us. So it's not a black and white answer. When I see or hear art that is ugly, I know it's not of divine origen, and it repulses me. When I see or hear art that is inherently beautiful, I know that through my God given senses as well. Not everything about living a life is directly addressed in Holy writ. But I've never read anything in scripture that says that God intends a bland, colorless, discordant earthly life for us either. When I know that I am going to experience beautiful music, painting etc., I actually pray grace, as I do before a meal, in genuine gratitude for his gifts. Either directly, as when I look at a sunset, or a green forest, and also indirectly through the gifts and talents of artists when I'm about to read a great book, look at an art exhibit, or when I hear a lovely piece of music. All beauty is of God.
 
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Blade

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Hmm not sure you would understand how the Jewish people in Moshe(Moses) day worship the lord. They didnt just stand there lol.

Now.. people made things that were to a dedicated to a God... a false GOD. Now if some and you can.. want to live by the law.. it didnt stop at the 10 commandments. Its 613. Do all or fail in all.

Music.. so much music is not bad. AC/DC.. is NOT of GOD and there is a evil in it. But music.. like some books we read. As Jesus would say.. it has no life in it. Now ME.. it has to bring glory has to point to Him.. or like He said.. it has no life. Its not evil.. nor good.. There is music..thats just music.. not sin.. not evil.. yet.. it brings no glory to GOD. Some will understand some wont. Like I said "for me".

So many will be shocked when they get to heaven.. they will be singing and.. you WILL say.. WAIT.. we sang that in church! ALL GOOD THINGS COME FROM GOD.. from there to us.. to sing to HIM..remember what you see here is just a AWFUL ...well say a 4 year old tried to paint everything he say in heaven.. just a clouded glass.. there are animals tress and more things you have NEVER seen.. will be there..

So.. YES!
 
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rockytopva

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And the children of Israel that were present at Jerusalem kept the feast of unleavened bread seven days with great gladness: and the Levites and the priests praised the Lord day by day, singing with loud instruments unto the Lord. - 2 Chronicles 30:21

It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the Lord, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the Lord; - 2 Chronicles 5:13
 
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Neogaia777

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I question whether men can 'create' that which is 'Holy' without the direct instruction of God.

We see objects created, (Ark of the Covenant. Items to be placed in the Temple. A staff with snakes on it. Etc..........), by the direct instruction of God Himself.

But we have the commandment given to the Hebrews NOT to create 'graven images'.

So it's obvious the commandment doesn't include direct instruction from God. What it means is we are not to 'take it upon OURSELVES' to make 'graven images'.

Now, music. Go back and read WHO those were that created the first 'musical instruments'. What 'lineage'.

Now, a simple question: Is music a 'thing of this world'? If you say 'some' or 'no', then please explain to me how men are capable of creating that which is Holy. Prove to me that any song ever written was inspired by God.

Yes, we read that David 'danced' and 'sang' running around naked. We see Moses sister dancing and singing.

But show me where dancing and singing were practiced by Christ, or His apostles. Show me where people SANG in the gathering. Or 'danced' in the 'gathering'.

Let us examine this as it EXISTS. Not how one 'feels' or what satisfies their 'lusts'. Let us examine it without any 'influence'.

How 'important' is music in today's 'churches'? What amount of effort and energy is expended towards 'music'? How much money is spent on it. What does the 'Music Director' get paid? What percentage of the gathering is devoted to 'music'?

Now, show me the information offered in the NT that we are to offer such devotion to MUSIC. Where is THAT 'instruction' in the Bible?

If it were SO important as to take up a major portion of the 'collection', a major portion of the TIME spent in the gathering, do you REALLY believe that God would have left this UP TO US to determine? Or would He have offered some INSTRUCTION as to it's PLACE in the gathering.

We are given quite a bit of information about 'the gathering'. Mostly what we SHOULDN'T be doing. But NOTHING offered concerning 'music' being offered such a "high place" in The Church.

So if God didn't inspire the 'concept', who DID? Where did the IDEA come from?

Is music 'a thing of this world'? That is the ONLY question that needs to be answered to find the beginning of the path to knowledge concerning 'music' and it's PLACE in the 'churches'.

If you SAY: "It is inspired by God", PROVE it. Show me the EVIDENCE that music is a product of the direct inspiration of God. Otherwise, it's OBVIOUS that music is a 'thing of this world'. Created by MEN. But the scary part is trying to answer this question: "Where does the inspiration come from"? For if not 'of God', then 'something else'.

I assure you, there are people that enjoy the music in the 'church' more than learning about God or His Son. People that would not attend a 'church' without the 'music'. Yet no evidence in the entire NT that supports it 'in the church'.

Bible Gateway offer these TWO uses of the word music in the ENTIRE NT:

Luke 15:25
Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.

Revelation 18:22
And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee

These are the 'two' references to 'singing' found in the NT:

Ephesians 5:19
Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Notice that in the first we are to 'speak to OURSELVES' and that the 'melody' is to made 'in our hearts'.

The second offers NO evidence as to HOW we are discern what is indicated to be encouraged. How are we to determine a 'properly inspired' hymn? Just 'guess'? Or is anything written and devoted to 'a' god able to be 'Holy' by simply choosing ONE 'god' or another?

In other words, could I write a 'hymn' devoted to Satan who I call God? Could I sing a hymn devoted to the 'god' of this world? Could praise be offered to Satan in the guise of a hymn?

My point: Show me ONE song that can be proven to be "Holy". Simply offer 'evidence' that it is "Holy".

For you see, it is nothing other than 'influence'. And Satan is more than capable of 'mimicking' anything involving God.

Yes, he can be recognized by them that know HOW. But how many BELIEVE that they can recognize the Devil but are merely fooling themselves into a false sense of security?

Is 'music' a 'thing of this world'? Where did it 'come from'? It's 'inspiration'?

Just LOOK at how influential music is and what it appeals to. It appeals to the FLESH. We can be convinced to LOVE IT. Look how many people devote their entire LIVES to it. Yet what does it actually PRODUCE. Look at the IDOLS we make of those that 'make music' that we LOVE. And look at what a 'song' can DO TO US. Even those that are OBVIOUSLY 'evil' by their very nature.

Ever been to an AC/DC concert? Ever seen what happens to the audience when they perform "Highway to Hell"? I've never seen a group of people that are drunk or high join in something like the audience at one of their concerts when they perform this song. Yet it's like a Satanic Anthem. Where do you suppose THAT influence comes from? God? Or the 'god of this world'?

And just look at the 'appeal' of the performer through their MUSIC. They are like 'Pied Pipers'. People fall in LOVE with them that don't know ANYTHING about them other than the 'music'. Isn't that inherently DANGEROUS. To offer one's devotion to another that they DON'T EVEN KNOW. Only KNOW them through their MUSIC.

And just LOOK how corrupt most are when we DO get to 'know them'.

So, I ask: "Is music a 'thing of this world?" Or can you PROVE to me that there is ONE song that was directly inspired by God?

Blessings

MEC
Ahhh...? David wrote a little book, not probably very wide or well known I guess not so important little book called "Psalms"...? Ever heard of it...? Course you have God made sure of that and put it in a book that would never die...

The choir was sent before the armies of Isreal, on numerous occasions playing music before a battle, and the walls of Jericho came down when they lifted up a praise shout...

Also, things that make you think of the Lord, or God's spiritual reality(ies) (another time)... Or God's spiritual reality or kingdom or have your mind on the things of the Spirit, can that be a bad thing, if your not overly focused on bad ones...? (by it, music)... (Or whatever)...

I call that praise, and it's very important BTW...

God Bless!
 
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I question whether men can 'create' that which is 'Holy' without the direct instruction of God.

We see objects created, (Ark of the Covenant. Items to be placed in the Temple. A staff with snakes on it. Etc..........), by the direct instruction of God Himself.

But we have the commandment given to the Hebrews NOT to create 'graven images'.

So it's obvious the commandment doesn't include direct instruction from God. What it means is we are not to 'take it upon OURSELVES' to make 'graven images'.

Now, music. Go back and read WHO those were that created the first 'musical instruments'. What 'lineage'.

Now, a simple question: Is music a 'thing of this world'? If you say 'some' or 'no', then please explain to me how men are capable of creating that which is Holy. Prove to me that any song ever written was inspired by God.

Yes, we read that David 'danced' and 'sang' running around naked. We see Moses sister dancing and singing.

But show me where dancing and singing were practiced by Christ, or His apostles. Show me where people SANG in the gathering. Or 'danced' in the 'gathering'.

Let us examine this as it EXISTS. Not how one 'feels' or what satisfies their 'lusts'. Let us examine it without any 'influence'.

How 'important' is music in today's 'churches'? What amount of effort and energy is expended towards 'music'? How much money is spent on it. What does the 'Music Director' get paid? What percentage of the gathering is devoted to 'music'?

Now, show me the information offered in the NT that we are to offer such devotion to MUSIC. Where is THAT 'instruction' in the Bible?

If it were SO important as to take up a major portion of the 'collection', a major portion of the TIME spent in the gathering, do you REALLY believe that God would have left this UP TO US to determine? Or would He have offered some INSTRUCTION as to it's PLACE in the gathering.

We are given quite a bit of information about 'the gathering'. Mostly what we SHOULDN'T be doing. But NOTHING offered concerning 'music' being offered such a "high place" in The Church.

So if God didn't inspire the 'concept', who DID? Where did the IDEA come from?

Is music 'a thing of this world'? That is the ONLY question that needs to be answered to find the beginning of the path to knowledge concerning 'music' and it's PLACE in the 'churches'.

If you SAY: "It is inspired by God", PROVE it. Show me the EVIDENCE that music is a product of the direct inspiration of God. Otherwise, it's OBVIOUS that music is a 'thing of this world'. Created by MEN. But the scary part is trying to answer this question: "Where does the inspiration come from"? For if not 'of God', then 'something else'.

I assure you, there are people that enjoy the music in the 'church' more than learning about God or His Son. People that would not attend a 'church' without the 'music'. Yet no evidence in the entire NT that supports it 'in the church'.

Bible Gateway offer these TWO uses of the word music in the ENTIRE NT:

Luke 15:25
Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.

Revelation 18:22
And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee

These are the 'two' references to 'singing' found in the NT:

Ephesians 5:19
Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Notice that in the first we are to 'speak to OURSELVES' and that the 'melody' is to made 'in our hearts'.

The second offers NO evidence as to HOW we are discern what is indicated to be encouraged. How are we to determine a 'properly inspired' hymn? Just 'guess'? Or is anything written and devoted to 'a' god able to be 'Holy' by simply choosing ONE 'god' or another?

In other words, could I write a 'hymn' devoted to Satan who I call God? Could I sing a hymn devoted to the 'god' of this world? Could praise be offered to Satan in the guise of a hymn?

My point: Show me ONE song that can be proven to be "Holy". Simply offer 'evidence' that it is "Holy".

For you see, it is nothing other than 'influence'. And Satan is more than capable of 'mimicking' anything involving God.

Yes, he can be recognized by them that know HOW. But how many BELIEVE that they can recognize the Devil but are merely fooling themselves into a false sense of security?

Is 'music' a 'thing of this world'? Where did it 'come from'? It's 'inspiration'?

Just LOOK at how influential music is and what it appeals to. It appeals to the FLESH. We can be convinced to LOVE IT. Look how many people devote their entire LIVES to it. Yet what does it actually PRODUCE. Look at the IDOLS we make of those that 'make music' that we LOVE. And look at what a 'song' can DO TO US. Even those that are OBVIOUSLY 'evil' by their very nature.

Ever been to an AC/DC concert? Ever seen what happens to the audience when they perform "Highway to Hell"? I've never seen a group of people that are drunk or high join in something like the audience at one of their concerts when they perform this song. Yet it's like a Satanic Anthem. Where do you suppose THAT influence comes from? God? Or the 'god of this world'?

And just look at the 'appeal' of the performer through their MUSIC. They are like 'Pied Pipers'. People fall in LOVE with them that don't know ANYTHING about them other than the 'music'. Isn't that inherently DANGEROUS. To offer one's devotion to another that they DON'T EVEN KNOW. Only KNOW them through their MUSIC.

And just LOOK how corrupt most are when we DO get to 'know them'.

So, I ask: "Is music a 'thing of this world?" Or can you PROVE to me that there is ONE song that was directly inspired by God?

Blessings

MEC
The Lord, your God, is in your midst,
a mighty savior,
Who will rejoice over you with gladness,
and renew you in his love,
Who will sing joyfully because of you,
as on festival days.


(Zephaniah 3:17-18 NABRE)


Hallelujah!
Praise God in his holy sanctuary;
give praise in the mighty dome of heaven.
Give praise for his mighty deeds,
praise him for his great majesty.
Give praise with blasts upon the horn,
praise him with harp and lyre.

Give praise with tambourines and dance,
praise him with strings and pipes.
Give praise with crashing cymbals,
praise him with sounding cymbals
.
Let everything that has breath
give praise to the Lord!
Hallelujah!


(Psalm 150 NABRE)


Shout with joy to the Lord, all the earth;
break into song; sing praise.
Sing praise to the Lord with the lyre,
with the lyre and melodious song.
With trumpets and the sound of the horn

shout with joy to the King, the Lord.


(Psalm 98:4-6 NABRE)

 
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