What are Theological Liberalism and Theological Postmodernism?

[jimmyjimmy]

Here's the text in question:



Now, this may indeed be about interpersonal relationships. And there may be MANY applications. But certainly ONE way to apply a verse which speaks of feeding your enemy is to literally feed your enemy. Do you seriously doubt this?

"Enemy". Not random person.

 

[Halbhh]

"Enemy". Not random person.

Well, that brings this to mind --

"....Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." Matthew ch 19

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Well, that brings this to mind --

"....Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." Matthew ch 19

Is that what you have done?

 

[Apex]

The Pharisees were conservatives too.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

The Pharisees were conservatives too.

Your point?

 

[Mark Corbett]

The Pharisees were conservatives too.

I hope that no one interprets my post to mean that the only type of errors are liberalism and postmodernism. While I'm convinced that being theologically conservative (basically meaning that one believes the Bible is entirely, no kidding, true, good, authoritative, and applicable) is right, it does not guarantee that one will not make other errors.

So, yes, the Pharisees were conservatives in a sense. That statement is warning to conservatives, but it is not a vindication of liberals. But then, maybe you never intended it to be?

 

[salt-n-light]

Surprisingly enough, what I'm finding, and I did not expect it, is that the 'liberal' (theologically) members of our congregation are often the most hard working in contributing and including also doing good works.

Just the fact here in our local congregation. It's not that the 'conservatives' don't. It's that the liberals outperform.

Often they seem more loving and more tolerant of the shortcomings of others, more forgiving.

Surprising.

Why is that?

It's not a small thing. Christ Himself said: "If you love me, you will keep my commands."

Do the 'liberals' love Him more?

In reality the labels aren't good enough. They always go wrong. The labels themselves are a wrong. They are merely a confusion, themselves.

We need faith and doing, Christ told us.

The 'conservative' that does not put Christ's commands into action is in no better a place than the 'liberal' that doesn't truly believe He rose. They are both in serious danger, and need our prayers.

Often, even more, they need to actually hear Christ's words, instead of another bit taken away from what He said and isolated.

That's an interesting observation, mine is similar. The more liberal Christian friends I have are more open and more works driven, so they do get a lot of stuff done. For my congregation though, I find they are less prone to talking to people outside their "squads" inside the church, so not much mingling with elders, or talking about the bible, or taking up roles that are more towards anchoring themselves in their home church (missionary, leadership roles, teachers, etc.). They'll do a lot of work, but if the church ain't vibing how they wanna vibe, they ghost out lol.

I guess the more conservative ones lacks people skills and aren't so open. Pretty stubborn at times. But I have to admire how much of the Word they know and their confidence to share it. The ones that are more open I actually feel more enriched in spirit. At the end of the day, if I was to ever leave the church and come back, these would be the ones I would still see in the church every Sunday and prayer meeting.They don't talk to me because they are friends with me, but because they wanna see me stay with the Lord.

I do pray for the two sides, because we all lack, but I do believe that all of us want to see the church grow and see people come to Christ. I hate the labels, but some of us mentally adopted that label already that its hard not to call it out at this point.

 

[Halbhh]

Is that what you have done?

Nope. Working on the two commandments about which He said "do this, and you will live". Luke Ch 10. Why? Because if we love Him, we will aim and work to put His commands into practice.

But...the extra charity of feeding the poor is a good thing we learned -- it's always good to read the full Good Samaritan story from the start, leaving nothing out, and get the extra lessons we might have not recently refreshed ourselves on.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Nope. Working on the two commandments He said we do "to live". Luke Ch 10.

So, then I've missed your point. Unless it's that we are saved by obeying commandments in order to be justified.

 

[mkgal1]

What people may be observing....as far as those that are of a "liberal" position acting more, is that a large part of the liberal belief system is a stance of freedom, equality, and justice for all. We believe that Jesus taught to "go to those in the margins" and upend the typical social hierarchy (last are first....etc). That takes action. I was so gobsmacked when I originally saw, here, all the contempt for "social justice". That seems pretty counter to the Gospel.

 

[Mark Corbett]

Surprisingly enough, what I'm finding, and I did not expect it, is that the 'liberal' (theologically) members of our congregation are often the most hard working in contributing and including also doing good works.

I've never thought that conservatives have a corner on "good works". Still, my experience is a bit different from yours. I was blessed with the opportunity to live in a nation which is much poorer than the US for a while. In the area where we lived there were relatively few foreigners. There was some danger due to Islamic extremism. Many local Christians were attacked, but no foreigners were physically harmed during my time there.

In that setting I knew pretty much everyone in the area who came from outside. There was a fairly small group who were constantly helping the poor. They helped with medical needs, housing, education costs, and more. All of those who were helping the poor in that difficult setting were completely committed to a theologically conservative Christian view. In fact, it was this view that motivated them to help the poor at considerable cost, and some risk, to themselves (actually disease was a bigger risk than physical violence).

 

[disciple1]

The spirit of theological liberalism was first seen a long time ago. It appeared not in a dark cave, but in a splendid garden. Its first words were, “Did God really say . . . ?”

Since that tragic day, theological liberalism has been sowing doubt about the content, reliability, truthfulness, goodness, and authority of God’s words. And it has been doing this among God’s people by those claiming to represent Him.

What Prompted This Post

I read this question in an OP for another thread on this forum: “What makes a person theologically liberal?” (Feel free to respond either here or there.)

I read over 100 replies. Some were quite helpful, but I still felt more should be said.

While the original question asked about theological liberalism, I am including theological postmodernism also. There is a great deal of overlap between the two. Both have the effect of eroding the authority of God’s Word in the hearts and minds of the people they influence.

Various Disclaimers

I’m aware that there are a wide range of people who self-identify, or are identified with, theological liberalism and/or postmodernism. They’re not all the same. Some may be true brothers and sisters in Christ.

I’m not talking about politics. Although there is a high correlation between theological liberals and political liberals in the US, they are not identical, and my focus here is on theological liberalism. More specifically, I’m concerned with those who claim to be Christians, but embrace and promote theological liberalism and/or postmodernism.

Being “liberal” on one issue does not mean a person, church, or denomination is liberal overall.

Despite their errors, liberals sometimes do good and sometimes are used for good purposes by God.

While I recognize these “disclaimers”, I do not want to water down the truth about theological liberalism and postmodernism. These are some of the most serious and widespread sources of false teaching within Christianity. They distort God’s truth, and in the process lead many astray.

Short Definitions

Theological Liberalism: teaching which undermines trust in the truthfulness and authority of the Bible by compromising with modern beliefs, morals, and/or values which are contrary to God’s Word.

Theological Postmodernism: teaching which undermines trust in the truthfulness and authority of the Bible by compromising with postmodern beliefs, morals, and/or values which are contrary to God’s Word.

Both liberalism and postmodernism usually begin not with outright denials of the truth of the Bible, but with sowing doubt about its truthfulness. However, in settings where it is advantageous to their cause, they do go on to explicitly deny many Bible truths and teachings.

Examples and Indications of Theological Liberalism and Postmodernism

A teacher, church, or institution claiming to be Christian, may be theologically liberal or postmodern if you see any of the following.

* They cause doubt about whether the books of the Bible which name their authors were actually written by those historical people. For example, if someone causes doubt about whether Paul wrote 2 Timothy, they have been influenced by theological liberalism.
* They question the truthfulness of any account which is presented as historically real in the Bible. Examples would be Jonah being swallowed by a fish, the virgin birth, and other miraculous stories throughout the Bible.
* They question the need to win people to the Christian faith from other religions, such as Islam and Hinduism.
* If someone believes or teaches that any sexual act between two men (or between two women) is not sinful, they are theologically liberal/postmodern.
* Belief in unguided evolution as a correct explanation for the appearance of life and for all the types of life we see today is a strong indicator of theological liberalism.
* All, or nearly all, theological liberals deny the Bible’s teaching that husbands are to lead in a marriage and that only men should serve as Senior Pastors in the church. However, there are some Christians who are truly evangelical and theologically conservative overall who are wrong on this one issue.
* Postmoderns often undermine the Bible’s teaching that the death of Christ on the cross meant that He was acting as a substitutionary atonement on our behalf.
* If you are reading something on one of the above topics and the author’s view seems unclear and confusing, it is very often the case that the author is theologically liberal or postmodern. A lack of clarity is sometimes just poor writing. But a lack of clarity is also a trademark of some postmodern writing. Their writing causes doubt about things that are clear in God’s Word, while intentionally being worded in such a way that allows the author to avoid an accusation of outright heresy. This is especially common when postmodern authors desire to continue to be accepted by, and to be able to have influence among, evangelical Christians.

How to Guard Against and Respond to Theological Liberalism and Postmodernism

The best defense against the doubt, confusion, and errors of theological liberalism and postmodernism is to read, study, believe, and teach all of God’s Word.

If you know someone going down the path of theological liberalism, do all you can to gently, but clearly, win them back to the truth.

Christian teachers, authors, and leaders who promote theological liberalism should be opposed as false teachers.

If you find yourself in a liberal or postmodern church or denomination, unless you are called by God to fight against these errors by staying, get out! Get into a church that believes that all of the Bible is really true.

In applying these principles, be careful not to become divisive over minor issues or doctrines which many truly theologically conservative, evangelical Christians disagree on. Although they may be mistaken, someone is not a false teacher just because they have a different view from you of the age of the earth, or a different understanding of the millennium, or a different way to explain God’s sovereignty and man’s responsibility. In your zeal for the truth (which is good!) do not neglect to also have a passion for unity among true believers.

A Few Verses to Meditate On

NIV Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

NIV Matthew 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.”

NIV Matthew 24:11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

NIV Acts 20:30-31 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

NIV 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them-- bringing swift destruction on themselves.

NIV 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

NIV 2 Timothy 2:25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,

This is slightly modified from a post on my blog.

This definition seems to apply to the ones who teach the law.

Theological Liberalism: teaching which undermines trust in the truthfulness and authority of the Bible by compromising with modern beliefs, morals, and/or values which are contrary to God’s Word.

Theological Postmodernism: teaching which undermines trust in the truthfulness and authority of the Bible by compromising with postmodern beliefs, morals, and/or values which are contrary to God’s Word.

Both liberalism and postmodernism usually begin not with outright denials of the truth of the Bible, but with sowing doubt about its truthfulness. However, in settings where it is advantageous to their cause, they do go on to explicitly deny many Bible truths and teachings.

1 Kings chapter 8 verse 46
"When they sin against you--for there is no one who does not sin--and you become angry with them and give them over to their enemies, who take them captive to their own lands, far away or near;
2 Chronicles chapter 6 verse 36
"When they sin against you--for there is no one who does not sin--and you become angry with them and give them over to the enemy, who takes them captive to a land far away or near;
Ecclesiastes chapter 7 verse 20
Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.


1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers a great many sins.

That's the only way to be justified.

 

[Halbhh]

So, then I've missed your point. Unless it's that we are saved by obeying commandments in order to be justified.

As helping to address that question we were discussing about the soup kitchen activity. Is doing a soup kitchen a Christian thing even when it's not for our brothers and sisters in the faith? Answer: yes, from that verse.


About justification -- perhaps we already agree(?).
We are justified by grace through faith, and thus we are "created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God created beforehand, that we should walk in them"

Right? It's all the Ephesians chapter 2, the grace doctrine, all in just 3 verses there, briefer than in other epistles.

 

[PhantomGaze]

Theological Liberalism: teaching which undermines trust in the truthfulness and authority of the Bible by compromising with modern beliefs, morals, and/or values which are contrary to God’s Word.

Sketchy. "Authority of the Bible" has just been a catchphrase for one's own particular perspective of what the Bible means, which is usually opposed to other perspectives on what the Bible means that derive their authority from the Bible too.

 

[Mark Corbett]

Sketchy. "Authority of the Bible" has just been a catchphrase for one's own particular perspective of what the Bible means, which is usually opposed to other perspectives on what the Bible means that derive their authority from the Bible too.

Some "other perspectives" are understandable differences over difficult to interpret issues.

But other "other perspectives" are dangerous false teachings.

NIV 1 Timothy 1:3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer

 

[Anguspure]

The spirit of theological liberalism was first seen a long time ago. It appeared not in a dark cave, but in a splendid garden. Its first words were, “Did God really say . . . ?”

Since that tragic day, theological liberalism has been sowing doubt about the content, reliability, truthfulness, goodness, and authority of God’s words. And it has been doing this among God’s people by those claiming to represent Him.

What Prompted This Post

I read this question in an OP for another thread on this forum: “What makes a person theologically liberal?” (Feel free to respond either here or there.)

I read over 100 replies. Some were quite helpful, but I still felt more should be said.

While the original question asked about theological liberalism, I am including theological postmodernism also. There is a great deal of overlap between the two. Both have the effect of eroding the authority of God’s Word in the hearts and minds of the people they influence.

Various Disclaimers

I’m aware that there are a wide range of people who self-identify, or are identified with, theological liberalism and/or postmodernism. They’re not all the same. Some may be true brothers and sisters in Christ.

I’m not talking about politics. Although there is a high correlation between theological liberals and political liberals in the US, they are not identical, and my focus here is on theological liberalism. More specifically, I’m concerned with those who claim to be Christians, but embrace and promote theological liberalism and/or postmodernism.

Being “liberal” on one issue does not mean a person, church, or denomination is liberal overall.

Despite their errors, liberals sometimes do good and sometimes are used for good purposes by God.

While I recognize these “disclaimers”, I do not want to water down the truth about theological liberalism and postmodernism. These are some of the most serious and widespread sources of false teaching within Christianity. They distort God’s truth, and in the process lead many astray.

Short Definitions

Theological Liberalism: teaching which undermines trust in the truthfulness and authority of the Bible by compromising with modern beliefs, morals, and/or values which are contrary to God’s Word.

Theological Postmodernism: teaching which undermines trust in the truthfulness and authority of the Bible by compromising with postmodern beliefs, morals, and/or values which are contrary to God’s Word.

Both liberalism and postmodernism usually begin not with outright denials of the truth of the Bible, but with sowing doubt about its truthfulness. However, in settings where it is advantageous to their cause, they do go on to explicitly deny many Bible truths and teachings.

Examples and Indications of Theological Liberalism and Postmodernism

A teacher, church, or institution claiming to be Christian, may be theologically liberal or postmodern if you see any of the following.

* They cause doubt about whether the books of the Bible which name their authors were actually written by those historical people. For example, if someone causes doubt about whether Paul wrote 2 Timothy, they have been influenced by theological liberalism.
* They question the truthfulness of any account which is presented as historically real in the Bible. Examples would be Jonah being swallowed by a fish, the virgin birth, and other miraculous stories throughout the Bible.
* They question the need to win people to the Christian faith from other religions, such as Islam and Hinduism.
* If someone believes or teaches that any sexual act between two men (or between two women) is not sinful, they are theologically liberal/postmodern.
* Belief in unguided evolution as a correct explanation for the appearance of life and for all the types of life we see today is a strong indicator of theological liberalism.
* All, or nearly all, theological liberals deny the Bible’s teaching that husbands are to lead in a marriage and that only men should serve as Senior Pastors in the church. However, there are some Christians who are truly evangelical and theologically conservative overall who are wrong on this one issue.
* Postmoderns often undermine the Bible’s teaching that the death of Christ on the cross meant that He was acting as a substitutionary atonement on our behalf.
* If you are reading something on one of the above topics and the author’s view seems unclear and confusing, it is very often the case that the author is theologically liberal or postmodern. A lack of clarity is sometimes just poor writing. But a lack of clarity is also a trademark of some postmodern writing. Their writing causes doubt about things that are clear in God’s Word, while intentionally being worded in such a way that allows the author to avoid an accusation of outright heresy. This is especially common when postmodern authors desire to continue to be accepted by, and to be able to have influence among, evangelical Christians.

How to Guard Against and Respond to Theological Liberalism and Postmodernism

The best defense against the doubt, confusion, and errors of theological liberalism and postmodernism is to read, study, believe, and teach all of God’s Word.

If you know someone going down the path of theological liberalism, do all you can to gently, but clearly, win them back to the truth.

Christian teachers, authors, and leaders who promote theological liberalism should be opposed as false teachers.

If you find yourself in a liberal or postmodern church or denomination, unless you are called by God to fight against these errors by staying, get out! Get into a church that believes that all of the Bible is really true.

In applying these principles, be careful not to become divisive over minor issues or doctrines which many truly theologically conservative, evangelical Christians disagree on. Although they may be mistaken, someone is not a false teacher just because they have a different view from you of the age of the earth, or a different understanding of the millennium, or a different way to explain God’s sovereignty and man’s responsibility. In your zeal for the truth (which is good!) do not neglect to also have a passion for unity among true believers.

A Few Verses to Meditate On

NIV Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

NIV Matthew 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.”

NIV Matthew 24:11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

NIV Acts 20:30-31 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

NIV 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them-- bringing swift destruction on themselves.

NIV 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

NIV 2 Timothy 2:25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,

This is slightly modified from a post on my blog.

Does: "Surely you shall not die..." count as theological liberalism?

 

[PhantomGaze]

Some "other perspectives" are understandable differences over difficult to interpret issues.

But other "other perspectives" are dangerous false teachings.

NIV 1 Timothy 1:3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer

That's what things like Church Creeds and Orthodoxy is for. A major problem occurs like we have in today's Evangelical culture that many conservatives try to make non-fundamentals fundamental, even to the point where they castigate the ideas that it can be shown historically that the original church held as "False Teaching". :/

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Does: "Surely you shall not die..." count as theological liberalism?

I think so. Any reduction in the seriousness of sin or the consequences of it would reflect theological liberalism.

 

[dqhall]

Some "other perspectives" are understandable differences over difficult to interpret issues.

But other "other perspectives" are dangerous false teachings.

NIV 1 Timothy 1:3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer

By the authority of the Bible, someone might turn to the page showing Leviticus 20:10 recommending putting to death both people involved in the act of adultery. If you turn to a different page you might find Jesus pardoning an adulteress and telling her to go and sin no more; John 8:11.

Now who is to say if Leviticus 20:10 is Biblical authority or liberal theology? Should John 8:11 be taken as Biblical authority or liberal theology? Is the letter of the law to be ignored somehow as if the Bible may not have authority on this one page because it is not recommended on another? If the letter of the law is the authority, then you make Christ's pardon a sin, yet Christ is the word more than the entire Bible.

This passage in Ephesians is not totally clear to me, but indicates Christ abolished some of the law: Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

Christ did not recommend adultery at any point in his ministry. His pardon of an adulteress was not to recommend adultery, for he told her to go and sin no more. In Christ's sermon on the mount, in Matthew 5:27 “You have heard that it was said ‘You shall not commit adultery;’ 28 but I tell you that everyone who gazes at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart." This passage should find acceptance in any type of Christian theology whether claiming to be Orthodox, Protestant, Catholic or Christian.

 

[Anguspure]

I think so. Any reduction in the seriousness of sin or the consequences of it would reflect theological liberalism.

I agree, however this is a mainstream Christian theological view that's been around since Tertulian and Co.
The rot set in quite quickly.