Hi Doveaman,
This is from a response to your other thread that was closed for some reason. I though to to add it here as it is relevant here. Some comments below for your consideration.
LoveGodsWord said: Absolutely! Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit this is the New Covenant of God writing his Laws in our heart (Rom 8:1-4; Rom 13:9-19; Heb 8:10-12) But on the other hand it is not an excuse to break God's Law. If you are breaking God's Law (10 commandments) you have neither seen him nor known him because Jesus only gives the Holy Spirit to those that obey him.
Your statements are self-contradicting. On the one hand you say that love is the fulfilling of God's Law, but then you say that we break God's law by violating the 10 commandments. If love is the fulfilling of God's Law, then we can only violate God Law by violating God's love, because love is the fulfilling of God's Law. Get it?
No my statements above are not self-contradicting. God’s Word never contradicts itself. Let see why from God’s Word?
Statements 1: Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit this is the New Covenant of God writing his Laws in our heart (Rom 8:1-4; Rom 13:9-19; Heb 8:10-12). Self-explanatory with some of the new covenant scriptures provided above.
Statement 2: But on the other hand it is not an excuse to break God's Law. If you are breaking God's Law (10 commandments) you have neither seen him nor known him because Jesus only gives the Holy Spirit to those that obey him.
Statement 1; God’s Law is written on the heart (
Heb 8:10-12) so that we can love God and our neighbour. These are the two great commandments which all of God’s Law hangs on. (Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18; Matt 22:37-
40). When this happens as we have faith in God’s Word we are doers (become obedient by faith) of the word and not hearers only deceiving our own selves (
Col 2:12-13; James 1:22). This is why it is written elsewhere; For not the hearers of the Law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified (
Rom 2:13) If this is not the experience of the new covenant believer God’s Word says you are deceiving yourself (James 1:22; Rom 2:13). The
new covenant is salvation from sin not in sin. If anyone is knowingly and wilfully committing sin God’s Word says you are deceiving yourself and have not seen or known God. (
1 John 2:4; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:6-9).
God’s Word never contradicts itself. If you find your interpretation of scripture contradicts other scripture it should be a warning sign to you that maybe what you believe is not correct. If any of us are knowingly and wilfully breaking any of God’s Laws, including God’s 7th Day Sabbath. God Word says we are deceiving ourselves, the truth is not in us and we are lying and are not from God. (
James 2:8-12; Rom 2:13; James 1:22, 1 John 2:3-4)
LoveGodsWord said: 1 John 2:4,
He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
There is no 10 in that scripture you quoted, or even in the context of the scripture you quoted. "Do not add to His words, or He will rebuke you and prove you a liar" (
Proverbs 30:6).
1 John 2:4 is God’s Word and not mine. The scripture provided above does indeed include God’s 10 commandments. The context of 1 John 2:4 is
about SIN. 1John 2:1-2,
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And
if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation
for our sins: and not for ours only,
but also for the sins of the whole world.
What is Sin (from the same book)?
1 John 3:4,
Whosoever committeth sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. This is because God’s Law (10 commandments) gives us a knowledge of what sin is and it seems like the three witnesses (Paul, John and James) all agree on this.
Romans 3:20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight:
for by the law is the knowledge of sin and if we break one of these commandments we commit sin (
James 2:8-12).
The scripture above in 1 John 3:4 is also followed by the same warning message as 1 John 2:4 in 1 John 3:6-10….
1John 3:6-10,
6 Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
All complimenting what was said earlier in the scripture quoted.
1John 2:3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1John 2:4, He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
If any of us are knowingly and wilfully breaking any of God’s Laws, including God’s 7th Day Sabbath. God Word says we are deceiving ourselves, the truth is not in us. (
James 2:8-12; Rom 2:13; James 1:22, 1 John 2:3-4)
Are you of the opinion that God's commandments are only limited to 10 commandments, or that the 10 commandments are superior to all of God’s other commandments? All of God's commandments are equal, and to violate one is to violate all, not just 10. Sin is the violation of all of God's commandments, not just 10.
Man does not live by bread alone but by
every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (
Matt 4:4). The Law of God (10 commandments) is the
work of God (
Ex 32:16)
whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (
Ecc 3:14).
God's Law is perfect converting the soul (
Ps 19:7). It is the very
foundation of the Old and New Covenants and the Judgement to come (
Ex 20:1:17, Heb 8:10-12; Exe 36:26-27; Jer 31:33-34). God's Law was
spoken by God himself to His people (
Ex 20:1-22).
God’s 10 commandments are the spoken word of God (
Ex 20:1-22).
God’s Word does not pass away (Matt 25:35).
Gods Law is still in force today (
Ps 111:7-8, Rev 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1John 3:5-8, 1John 2:3-4 etc.).
God’s Law reveals sin to us and the penalty of sin so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (
Rom 6:23; Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4).
It is the great standard of the judgement (
Heb 10:26-28; Rom 1:29-32;2:-9;2Cor 5:10; Heb 9:27; Ecc 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1John 3:4, Acts 17:31).
God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood as we have faith (
Gal 3:24; Rev 1:5).
God writes His Law in our hearts so that we become like him and we follow him because we love him (Heb 8:10-12)
LOVE is the fulfilling (doing) of God's Law (
Rom 13:10). This is why Jesus says to those that love him If you love me keep my commandments
(John 14:15).
All of God's commandments are inspired by His love and obeyed through His love, and to violate God's love is to disobey God Himself:
Agree same as if you break any of God’s 10 commandments we violate God’s love.
John 15:10,
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Our confidence on the day of judgement is based on our love for God and neighbour, and not based on our obedience to 10 commandments.
Yes because it is only by love that any of us can obey God. Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (
Rom 8:4)
Matthew 22:37-40,
37, Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38, This is the first and great commandment. 39, And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40,
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Did you know, Jesus is quoting from the Old Testament (
Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18)
God’s Judgement is based on love but love produces the fruit of obedience to God’s Law as we have faith in God’s Word to save us from our sins and is why Jesus says elsewhere “If you love me keep my commandments (
Matt 7:17-20; John 14:15)
LoveGodsWord said: If anyone is knowingly and willfully breaking God's 7th Day Sabbath or any of the 10 commandments you are not obeying God.
How can you say that after I showed from scriptures that the 7th Day Sabbath was wilfully and consistently broken by the Levite priests, and yet they were innocent of sin? "Haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent?'' (
Matthew 12:5). I don't think you are being honest to the scriptures.
Matt 12:5 is in reference to doing good on the Sabbath. The Jews had placed so many restrictions and on the Sabbath that it had become a burden to the people (context is
Matt 12:2; see also Matt 12:10; Mark 2:24; 3:2-4 Luke 6:2; 7-9; 13:10-16 etc.) Then in
Matt 12:10-12 in the same chapter Jesus goes on to say
it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath! Jesus came to teach us how to keep the Sabbath and it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (
Mark 3:4; Luke 6:9) and is why Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath (
Mark 2:27). This is why God’s Word says If anyone is knowingly and wilfully breaking any of the 10 commandments, including the 7th Day Sabbath you are deceiving yourself and not obeying or following God (James 2:8-12).
LoveGodsWord said: The context of Romans 2:14-15 in Romans 2 is about the Judgement and that all are accountable to God both Jews and Gentiles and there is no difference in God's eyes. Romans 2:12-13, For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. The context of Roman 2 is to the Jewish believers who were judging Gentile believers in relation to the laws of Moses (Romans 2:1-4). The next verses are referring to all man are equal in God's sight and all will be judged by God whether they know God's Law or not. "As many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified (Romans 5-13). The context of Romans 2:14-15 is in not judging the Gentile believers if they have God's Law written on their heart (Romans 2:14-15) even though they were never Israelite's that were given God's Law.
You keep making SDA arguments that are not consistent with the scriptures.
There is no argument because it is God’s Word and no one else owns it except God. We are free to believe God or not to believe God. Jesus says; If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. We must choose if we want to believe God or follow that traditions and teaching of man over the Word of God. Can you show me one scripture from the Word of God that says God’s 7th Day Sabbath commandment is now abolished and we are commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? If you cannot why do you not believe God?
"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law." (
Romans 2:12). Paul in
Romans 2 is talking about two groups of people -- the Jews who rely on the law and the Gentiles who do not rely on the law. Those who rely on the law will be judged by the requirements of the law, and those who do not rely on the law will not be judged by the requirements of the law. It's that simple. It is interesting to note that we can sin apart from the law, showing that sin is not the transgression of the 10 commandment law.
Nope. The scripture Romans 2:12 “All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law." Is saying what it is saying. If anyone breaks God’s Law they will be judged by the Law or perish by the Law. This is why it is written in the same book that all God’s Law (10 commandments) does is give a knowledge of sin and the wages of sin is death (
Romans 3:20; Romans 6:23) and further supported in the next verse
Romans 2:13 “For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.”
We are not declared righteous by obeying the letter of the law (the 10 commandment), instead we are declared righteous by surrendering to the Spirit of the law (the love of Christ): "And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment." (
1 John 3:23).
Correct no one can obey the letter of the Law for their salvation. We are only saved as we have Faith in God’s Word. As we do this it is God who works in us to save us from our sins. Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law in us who do not walk in the flesh (sinful mind) but after the Spirit. (Rom 8:1-4) God needs to write His Law in your heart before you can follow him. God’s Law (10 commandments) is the standard and definition of what righteousness is.
Ps 119:160
All your words are true; all your
righteous laws are
eternal.
“righteous Law” from H4941; משׁפּט; mishpâṭ; mish-pawt'; =
God's Divine Law or Judgement
Psa 119:172,
My tongue shall speak of thy word: for
all thy commandments are righteousness.
“righteousness” from H6664; צדק; tsedeq; tseh'-dek =
Moral law or Legal right doing
Psa 119:142,
Thy righteousness is an
everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
“everlasting” from H5769; עולם עלם; ‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm; o-lawm', o-lawm' = time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity always : - always (-s), ancient (time), continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end).
God’s salvation by faith in His Word produced righteousness in us because
God’s Law is written in us as we have faith in His Word. This is how we are to walk (faith). Salvation is the operation of God in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Hebrews 8:10-12; Colossians 2:12; Romans 8:1-4)
Paul in
Romans 2 is, in fact, talking about Gentiles who do not have the 10 commandment law, but who do have the love required by the law written in their hearts: “For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts” -- (
Romans 2:14-15). Gentiles who do not have the law of 10 commandments, do obey by natural instinct the love required by the law, and they become a law for themselves since their actions are inspired by love from their hearts as required by the law, even though they do not have the 10 commandments.
Romans 2 does not say that God's Law (10 commandments) have gone. The scriptures are only saying that God’s Laws can only be followed through love because they are written in the heart of the believer. Love is fulfilling (doing) God’s Law (Romans 13:9-10). The
context is Romans 2:13, For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified but this is only achieved through love (Rom 13:9-10).
In Christ Always!