Catholic vs. Protestant Christianity

[Root of Jesse]

I'm not "sending" anyone to "Hell", so please refrain from putting such words in my mouth.

Eternal judgement belongs to the Lord.

We as Christians, however, must speak up regarding deception, corruption and error.

Well, there's one thing we agree on. It's God's decision who goes to heaven. But individuals who know full well what they're doing and continue to sin are generally seen as hell-bound.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I attend a Filipino church and a brother in my bible study group told us about his uncle who died who was catholic. Their church told the family his uncle is suffering in purgatory and they could have him released for 5000 php. That's equivalent to about $120 USD.

I doubt that seriously. First, the Catholic Church doesn't make such declarations as to where some dead person is situated. They may have asked for a donation to help the souls in purgatory. A Catholic Church rarely even asks for money, the way Protestant Churches do. They do take up a collection, but having been one of the collection counters, most parishes are supported on the backs of less than 10% of the parishioners. In fact, a Philipino church I visited in Bohol subsisted on about $120 a week. How far do you think that stretches, when it comes to maintenance of the facility, bread and board for the priests, electricity and such? The offerings in a Catholic Church, even donations for Masses and such are free will. No one is ever denied sacraments due to lack of money. It's not like Protestants who often demand tithes. Anyone ever wonder where your tithe is spent? Why is there a requirement to do so?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I doubt that seriously. First, the Catholic Church doesn't make such declarations as to where some dead person is situated. They may have asked for a donation to help the souls in purgatory. A Catholic Church rarely even asks for money, the way Protestant Churches do. They do take up a collection, but having been one of the collection counters, most parishes are supported on the backs of less than 10% of the parishioners. In fact, a Philipino church I visited in Bohol subsisted on about $120 a week. How far do you think that stretches, when it comes to maintenance of the facility, bread and board for the priests, electricity and such? The offerings in a Catholic Church, even donations for Masses and such are free will. No one is ever denied sacraments due to lack of money. It's not like Protestants who often demand tithes. Anyone ever wonder where your tithe is spent? Why is there a requirement to do so?

Everything is a lot cheaper in the Philippines. About 1/4-1/5 of what things cost in America. So $120 per week is not bad depending on the church. How did you like Bohol? I love it there. What part did you go to? I was in Cantaongon/Loon area not far from Tubigon. I'm thinking about retiring in Bohol.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I doubt that seriously. First, the Catholic Church doesn't make such declarations as to where some dead person is situated. They may have asked for a donation to help the souls in purgatory. A Catholic Church rarely even asks for money, the way Protestant Churches do. They do take up a collection, but having been one of the collection counters, most parishes are supported on the backs of less than 10% of the parishioners. In fact, a Philipino church I visited in Bohol subsisted on about $120 a week. How far do you think that stretches, when it comes to maintenance of the facility, bread and board for the priests, electricity and such? The offerings in a Catholic Church, even donations for Masses and such are free will. No one is ever denied sacraments due to lack of money. It's not like Protestants who often demand tithes. Anyone ever wonder where your tithe is spent? Why is there a requirement to do so?

You ought to come and visit me sometime. Since my childhood the primary subject of the homilies at Catholic masses has been money. I remember one particular mass at 6:30 a.m. in a university town. Until that time I did not realize that Catholic churches were minimally heated. At the mass the priest berated the congregation for the parsimony and threatened to turn off the heat if they did not start increasing their giving.

I wondered if it was just my own observation, but two Catholic friends who visited me and attended mass while they were here both commented on the fixation on giving in the homilies.

Even as I write this our Catholic diocese, which declared bankruptcy four years ago to evade a court judgment against it related to their very naughty priests, is now demolishing the school associated with the cathedral and is erecting a very impressive stone diocesan hall at the cost of $6 million. I say that is not at all bad for a financially broke diocese.

Ground is broken for new diocesan hall at cathedral – The Catholic Messenger

 

[BNR32FAN]

You ought to come and visit me sometime. Since my childhood the primary subject of the homilies at Catholic masses has been money. I remember one particular mass at 6:30 a.m. in a university town. Until that time I did not realize that Catholic churches were minimally heated. At the mass the priest berated the congregation for the parsimony and threatened to turn off the heat if they did not start increasing their giving.

I wondered if it was just my own observation, but two Catholic friends who visited me and attended mass while they were here both commented on the fixation on giving in the homilies.

Even as I write this our Catholic diocese, which declared bankruptcy four years ago to evade a court judgment against it related to their very naughty priests, is now demolishing the school associated with the cathedral and is erecting a very impressive stone diocesan hall at the cost of $6 million. I say that is not at all bad for a financially broke diocese.

Ground is broken for new diocesan hall at cathedral – The Catholic Messenger

I'm planning on going to Manila in 2 weeks. I'm looking forward to a week off of work.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I do repent daily and sometimes several times a day. Geez your making it seem like I go around persecuting everyone. I don't go around telling everyone that's not Christian. So your saying we don't need to try to change at all. We just keep living the same life we lived before we became Christian? That is not repentance. The word repent doesn't just mean confess it means metanoia which is a change in direction or a turning away from something. So many people are too hung up on not doing works. Works are necessary for salvation. We are not saved by our works we are saved by our faith. Works are a fruit of the Holy Spirit and evidence of our faith. This is what James taught. I disagree with Luther's interpretation.

Then you deprive men of their assurance in Christ by teaching them that unless they are perfecting themselves in this life and achieving temporal glory then they are without the certainty of hope in Christ. Of course we're supposed to live a life of good works, but not for our salvation, but out of reverence to Christ and love for our fellow man.

If you say that one who struggles with his sin is not a Christian, then you deny the Gospel and make the Law our salvation--in which case no one can be saved for all have fallen short.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BNR32FAN]

Then you deprive men of their assurance in Christ by teaching them that unless they are perfecting themselves in this life and achieving temporal glory then they are without the certainty of hope in Christ. Of course we're supposed to live a life of good works, but not for our salvation, but out of reverence to Christ and love for our fellow man.

If you say that one who struggles with his sin is not a Christian, then you deny the Gospel and make the Law our salvation--in which case no one can be saved for all have fallen short.

-CryptoLutheran

Where did I say that one who struggles with sin is not a Christian? Please read what I posted. Your trying to make your point by twisting what I posted into something obscure.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Where did I say that one who struggles with sin is not a Christian? Please read what I posted. Your trying to make your point by twisting what I posted into something obscure.

"A Christian that struggles with a daily inappropriate contentography habit. Hmmm I wouldn't call that the behavior or someone who is a new creation."

"The point I was trying to convey is someone who habitually makes the same sin everyday is not showing signs of being a new creation."

To suggest that someone who has a daily struggle in a particular sin isn't--or may not be--a Christian, born anew of God by His grace--is to place the onus on the human ability to conquer his own sinful instincts rather than placing the onus on Jesus Christ, His work, and the grace of God which comes to us in the Gospel.

Someone who sins unabashedly, unrepentedly, without remorse of any sort--that certainly is a problem. Such a person risks shipwrecking their faith. But to say that merely the struggle itself can indicate that one does not belong to Christ is to deny the efficacy of the Gospel, and to bring human effort and ability into the equation of our justification before God.

That's the danger here. Because neither you nor I know the personal struggles of any other person other than ourselves, it is not up to us to say, on the basis of our neighbor's sins and struggles, that they are not Christ's--if they are baptized Christians, confessing Christ as their Savior, and hoping in Him then who are we to say they are tares rather than wheat? Christ alone will judge the wheat and the tares.

We can warn, in love, of the danger of unrepentant sin; that is the proper role of the Law to convict and condemn sin; but to preach the Law to the detriment of our hope in the Gospel is extremely toxic and dangerous; which is why the preaching of the Law cannot be used to make men right with God, only the preaching of the Gospel can accomplish this; for men are made right with God not by what they do, but what God has done for them in Christ. Thus the preaching of the Law is rightfully preached when it convicts us of our sin and draws us to our knees in repentance; and the Gospel is rightfully preached when it proclaims the unconditional mercy and loving-kindness of God for us in Christ and that He, all by Himself and apart from ourselves, so loves the world, justifies us, and saves us on Christ's account alone.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Root of Jesse]

You ought to come and visit me sometime. Since my childhood the primary subject of the homilies at Catholic masses has been money. I remember one particular mass at 6:30 a.m. in a university town. Until that time I did not realize that Catholic churches were minimally heated. At the mass the priest berated the congregation for the parsimony and threatened to turn off the heat if they did not start increasing their giving.

Have you ever examined what the financial situation of the parish was, at the time? I won't speak to the priest's bedside manner, as I wasn't there. But when the parish is in dire straits, you're sure to hear the pastor talk about it. I doubt that you'll ever hear any suggestion of 10% off the top of your salary, though, as in many Protestant denominations.

I wondered if it was just my own observation, but two Catholic friends who visited me and attended mass while they were here both commented on the fixation on giving in the homilies.

When it's a struggle, you're sure to hear about it. I know large monasteries that never ask a dime. But to tell a person that his dead relative is in purgatory and needs your money is a reach.

Even as I write this our Catholic diocese, which declared bankruptcy four years ago to evade a court judgment against it related to their very naughty priests, is now demolishing the school associated with the cathedral and is erecting a very impressive stone diocesan hall at the cost of $6 million. I say that is not at all bad for a financially broke diocese.

Ground is broken for new diocesan hall at cathedral – The Catholic Messenger

[/quote]That's done by raising money. As the article said "If the Lord doesn't build the house, in vain do the laborer labor." Many object to tearing down a school, but honestly, most opt to send their children to cheaper private school and let the government inoculate their brains. If the school isn't holding it's own, down it goes.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Everything is a lot cheaper in the Philippines. About 1/4-1/5 of what things cost in America. So $120 per week is not bad depending on the church. How did you like Bohol? I love it there. What part did you go to? I was in Cantaongon/Loon area not far from Tubigon. I'm thinking about retiring in Bohol.

I loved Bohol. We stayed at Panglao for a week. I wanted to dive but couldn't. Visited all the churches that fell in the earthquake. Saw the Chocolate Hills.

I just cannot believe someone would say something like that, unless they were trying to get the one who dug the grave some money. But that is not what the Church teaches. I'm sure there are lots of irregular practices out there. I heard a story of a parish where they had a 'very special recipe for making the Eucharist'. It contained eggs, sugar and baking soda. That's illegal. I also have knowledge that Cardinal Sin, of the Philippines, when he was made a Cardinal, was investigated, as are all people as they get elevated to positions in the Church. They investigated his baptism, and in an interview, it was determined that he was irregularly baptised in the name of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph. You may believe that it's a small thing, but what it meant was that every priest he had ordained EVER was invalidly ordained, that every sacrament that he had ever performed was in error. Now, those who had been given those sacraments were innocent in the process, so as soon as he was properly baptized, that legalized everything. There's some whacky things being done out there, so I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4]

I do repent daily and sometimes several times a day. Geez your making it seem like I go around persecuting everyone. I don't go around telling everyone that's not Christian. So your saying we don't need to try to change at all. We just keep living the same life we lived before we became Christian? That is not repentance. The word repent doesn't just mean confess it means metanoia which is a change in direction or a turning away from something. So many people are too hung up on not doing works. Works are necessary for salvation. We are not saved by our works we are saved by our faith. Works are a fruit of the Holy Spirit and evidence of our faith. This is what James taught. I disagree with Luther's interpretation.

Exodus 32:14
Who repent here ? people or God ?
God repent here , he did not destroy his people for disobedience .

Repentance is change of mind , not only humans can repent but God aswell .

 

[BNR32FAN]

I loved Bohol. We stayed at Panglao for a week. I wanted to dive but couldn't. Visited all the churches that fell in the earthquake. Saw the Chocolate Hills.

I just cannot believe someone would say something like that, unless they were trying to get the one who dug the grave some money. But that is not what the Church teaches. I'm sure there are lots of irregular practices out there. I heard a story of a parish where they had a 'very special recipe for making the Eucharist'. It contained eggs, sugar and baking soda. That's illegal. I also have knowledge that Cardinal Sin, of the Philippines, when he was made a Cardinal, was investigated, as are all people as they get elevated to positions in the Church. They investigated his baptism, and in an interview, it was determined that he was irregularly baptised in the name of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph. You may believe that it's a small thing, but what it meant was that every priest he had ordained EVER was invalidly ordained, that every sacrament that he had ever performed was in error. Now, those who had been given those sacraments were innocent in the process, so as soon as he was properly baptized, that legalized everything. There's some whacky things being done out there, so I shouldn't be surprised.

Yes I stayed at Hunann resort in Panglao last October. It's a really nice resort. I proposed to my fiancé there. We're working on getting her fiancé visa. That's why I'm going to Manila. October is a really nice time of the year to be there. Not too hot.

Yes I was shocked also when I heard about that story. There are a lot of tiny churches away from civilization. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some that are corrupted. I know that in most catholic churches indulgences are not sold like they were in the mid evil times. There's corruption in all forms of religion. I see many on tv that make claims of having the power to heal people and a lot of other nonsense. There's a lot of rackets out there that are driven by greed instead of the Holy Spirit. I really like my Filipino church. Every Sunday after the sermon we all sit and eat together and have fellowship. I'm sure you probably already know when a bunch of Filipinos get together they're going to bring a bunch of food and eat. Hahahaha Pilipino ka ba I'm not I'm American. I'm just curious what area are you in? I'm in Dallas Texas USA.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Exodus 32:14
Who repent here ? people or God ?
God repent here , he did not destroy his people for disobedience .

Repentance is change of mind , not only humans can repent but God aswell .

I've thought about that but I'm not fully convinced that God changed His mind. I think God sometimes says things to elicit His desired reaction. Possibly to dictate a certain response or effect. To me the notion of God changing His mind doesn't make sense since we know that He is all knowing and all powerful.

 

[Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4]

I've thought about that but I'm not fully convinced that God changed His mind. I think God sometimes says things to elicit His desired reaction. Possibly to dictate a certain response or effect. To me the notion of God changing His mind doesn't make sense since we know that He is all knowing and all powerful.

Well God changed his mind and didn't destroy Nineveh first time , that's why he send Jonas here so they repent , if they did not repent he would destroy them , and he did about 100 years later . I know what you mean that God knows future , he knew aswell that he will repent .

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Get up and go to Church.

Forgive me...

 

[JacksBratt]

I doubt that seriously. First, the Catholic Church doesn't make such declarations as to where some dead person is situated. They may have asked for a donation to help the souls in purgatory. A Catholic Church rarely even asks for money, the way Protestant Churches do. They do take up a collection, but having been one of the collection counters, most parishes are supported on the backs of less than 10% of the parishioners. In fact, a Philipino church I visited in Bohol subsisted on about $120 a week. How far do you think that stretches, when it comes to maintenance of the facility, bread and board for the priests, electricity and such? The offerings in a Catholic Church, even donations for Masses and such are free will. No one is ever denied sacraments due to lack of money. It's not like Protestants who often demand tithes. Anyone ever wonder where your tithe is spent? Why is there a requirement to do so?

I don't think that I have ever been to or heard of a church, RC or Protestant, that has demanded tithes.

They have did sermons from the pulpit that explain that it is biblical to give God your "first fruits", but demand....... no.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Well, there's one thing we agree on. It's God's decision who goes to heaven........

This Protestant Pastor seems to agree with you on that...

A Christian Pastor Denies Jesus is the only Way!!!
A Christian Pastor Denies Jesus is the only Way!!!

......................On Larry King Live, the following very disturbing conversation occurred with Larry King and Joel Osteen:
KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?
OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...
At this point, even Larry King appears surprised by Osteen’s answer. Then Larry tosses Osteen a "soft-ball" to explain his previous answer. And again Osteen openly denies that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way of salvation.
KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?
OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God will judge a person's heart.
I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.
Again Osteen denies the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Unbelievable.............................. .

...................The Pope flies over to catch the next Joel Osteen service

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[Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4]

John 14:6

Jesus died for everybody , even his enemies , he choose all not only few people .
Romans 5:6-8

 

[W2L]

This Protestant Pastor seems to agree with you on that...

A Christian Pastor Denies Jesus is the only Way!!!
A Christian Pastor Denies Jesus is the only Way!!!

......................On Larry King Live, the following very disturbing conversation occurred with Larry King and Joel Osteen:
KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?
OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...
At this point, even Larry King appears surprised by Osteen’s answer. Then Larry tosses Osteen a "soft-ball" to explain his previous answer. And again Osteen openly denies that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way of salvation.
KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?
OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God will judge a person's heart.
I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.
Again Osteen denies the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Unbelievable.............................. .

...................The Pope flies over to catch the next Joel Osteen service

...........

..................................

........

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Ive often wondered how exactly God will judge the world. I resist judging anyone, because im a sinner living by grace. Its my Job to love people. Thats all i know.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This Protestant Pastor seems to agree with you on that...

A Christian Pastor Denies Jesus is the only Way!!!
A Christian Pastor Denies Jesus is the only Way!!!

......................On Larry King Live, the following very disturbing conversation occurred with Larry King and Joel Osteen:
KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?
OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...
At this point, even Larry King appears surprised by Osteen’s answer. Then Larry tosses Osteen a "soft-ball" to explain his previous answer. And again Osteen openly denies that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way of salvation.
KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?
OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God will judge a person's heart.
I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.
Again Osteen denies the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Unbelievable.............................. .

...................The Pope flies over to catch the next Joel Osteen service

...........

..................................

........

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Did you read your own post? He said like 4 times I DONT KNOW. That's not denying anything.