The Perfect Law

[corinth77777]

I do not believe we are under the Law...including the 10 commandments.
For salvation.

We are under the Law of Christ, law of love, and the Law of faith

If you are walking by the Spirit

For we must be circumcised of the heart that the outcome is the flesh naturally responds to it.

When we yeild ourselves to the Spirit the Law is naturally kept.
For what one yields oneself to is what they obey. The spirit..life and peace or flesh death and distruction

 

[RGW00]

Can you please share the scripture where "Jesus tells us to hold to the Ten Commandments and all of the laws, until He dies. "

Acts 10:13-15

13Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

This doesn't necessary cover the Ten Commandments but what about the laws that say to not eat unclean animals? He has erased that. I agree with the post above: to receive salvation we only need to believe in Jesus. But to walk in fellowship with Him, we need to follow the laws, but not the ones as to which God has made clean. This covers more than just animals being unclean.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, I don't disagree with any of this. Paul was at times speaking of the ceremonial laws, less weighty in their way, but more often, I believe, of the moral law, specifically the ten commandments, and in either case he was battling legalism and the notion that the law could justify man on its own.

But the problem with man is not first of all that he sins, but first of all that he's out of communion with God, concupiscence and the personal sins it produces being the natural offspring of that original sin. Until that rift is reconciled and healed man has no real hope of fulfilling any law, of being just. Again, the difference between the old and new covenants isn't a matter of rendering the Law wrong, or of replacing the Law with grace, but rather of fulfilling the Law-realizing the righteousness of God (that which man was created to have)- by grace, the right way, under grace rather than under the Law. This involves direct relationship or communion with God without which man is already in a state of injustice, a relationship which is established and maintained by faith in response to grace, to God's calling, faith being a virtue that Adam effectively dismissed and forfeited by His act of disobedience of God, by not believing and heeding Him IOW.

Jesus said if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).

But is this our work alone that saves us?

No.

Is this without God's saving grace whereby we are Initially and Ultimately saved by God's grace?

No.

A person is ultimately saved by God's grace because if they sin, they do not do a good work to get clean but they repent or confess their to Jesus and continue to believe that He is their Saviour.

But God's grace teaches to deny ungodliness and that we should live soberly and righteously in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).

If we could think that we can sin and still be saved then God would have to agree with our sin in order for such a plan of salvation to work. But God cannot agree with sin because He is holy and righteous.

Only when one confesses and forsakes sin will one find mercy (Proverbs 28:13).

So many today justify a sin and still be saved gospel.

...

 

[disciple1]

James is writing to Jewish Christians. In his letter he says:

"But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing." (James 1:25)

"If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well." (James 2:8)

"So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty." (James 2:12).​

The perfect law, the law of liberty, the royal law. What is James referring to when he uses these terms?

"If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well." (James 2:8)

In another verse Galatians chapter 5 verse 14
The entire law is summed up in a single command love your neighbor as yourself.

I believe that's all we need to do.

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers a great many sins.


No one ever obeyed the law except Christ anyway.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In another verse Galatians chapter 5 verse 14
The entire law is summed up in a single command love your neighbor as yourself.

I believe that's all we need to do.

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers a great many sins.


No one ever obeyed the law except Christ anyway.

But people have their own definitions on what love is. This is why we need to follow Jesus and obey His commands or the commands in the New Covenant.

For Jesus says, if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).


...

 

[fhansen]

Jesus said if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).

But is this our work alone that saves us?

No.

Is this without God's saving grace whereby we are Initially and Ultimately saved by God's grace?

No.

A person is ultimately saved by God's grace because if they sin, they do not do a good work to get clean but they repent or confess their to Jesus and continue to believe that He is their Saviour.

But God's grace teaches to deny ungodliness and that we should live soberly and righteously in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).

If we could think that we can sin and still be saved then God would have to agree with our sin in order for such a plan of salvation to work. But God cannot agree with sin because He is holy and righteous.

Only when one confesses and forsakes sin will one find mercy (Proverbs 28:13).

So many today justify a sin and still be saved gospel.

...

Our continued obedience will also be a result of grace, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and our continuing faithfulness and cooperation with it, with Him. With His help it's as simple as Basil of Cesarea, a 4th century believer, put it:
If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.

Not necessarily easy...but simple enough.

 

[corinth77777]

Acts 10:13-15

13Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

This doesn't necessary cover the Ten Commandments but what about the laws that say to not eat unclean animals? He has erased that. I agree with the post above: to receive salvation we only need to believe in Jesus. But to walk in fellowship with Him, we need to follow the laws, but not the ones as to which God has made clean. This covers more than just animals being unclean.

Hey RG

You lost me in your answer

Because before Christ Peter was still under the Law...And He is responding to a dream..or vision....in symbol about eating of unclean animals. This will bring him into understand about the Gentiles who were considered unclean would now be clean and also be members of the same body with the Jews. For Peter was a Jew...and those laws were the contract for the Jew to follow until Christ....
Now that Christ has died the. First covenant [contract] with the Jews is annauled. Jesus fullfilled the Covenant. They couldn't because they failed and broke the laws under the First contract. But Jesus fullfilled it.

Like a marriage contract that states
I will not cheat, wash your back and love you and you will have all that is mine.
You sign it together stating you agree
But When the other spouse dies who made the contract with you...it becomes void.

Now you are able to marry again but under a new contract you tell this wife: I will fill up the car, kiss you and love you

It is not the same contract...But this one with a new wife...who look like the old wife accept she has a spiritual body, still shares the vow of love.

So the contracts are not the same, one is old with the first wife who died...
And the second contract is new with the second wife even one of the Vows made are in both contracts.

So to answer your question the unclean things are in the first Contract/ Covenant
But not in the second...

Because they are fullfilled by Christ. They were shadows about the reality that belongs to Christ. As a pic of a heart shape means love. The picture make light of the true meaning. So as to the ceremonial and many ritual laws, the reality or meaning is Christ.


So Now you're to marry again this contract is a better contract than the first because it comes built on better promises. With this to be marriage your ghostly wife says if you just put your trust in Her she will give you everything you need including forgiveness when you sincerely asked. And the outcome of this union is you learn how to love until you you become like Her.

If you become like her why would you do anything to hurt her or anything she loves....
...............
Hope this may have helped some
This is not a true story..or even close to the reality...just thought if I made up some examples..it may help understanding in one area of the Law.

 

[disciple1]

But people have their own definitions on what love is. This is why we need to follow Jesus and obey His commands or the commands in the New Covenant.

For Jesus says, if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).


...

But people have their own definitions on what love is.

Here's so you know what love is, because no one obeys any law except to love, and most people don't love.

Matthew chapter 25 verses 31-46
When the Son of Man comes" in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. he will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and got visit you? The King will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

 

[corinth77777]

Jesus said if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).

But is this our work alone that saves us?

No.

Is this without God's saving grace whereby we are Initially and Ultimately saved by God's grace?

No.

A person is ultimately saved by God's grace because if they sin, they do not do a good work to get clean but they repent or confess their to Jesus and continue to believe that He is their Saviour.

But God's grace teaches to deny ungodliness and that we should live soberly and righteously in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).

If we could think that we can sin and still be saved then God would have to agree with our sin in order for such a plan of salvation to work. But God cannot agree with sin because He is holy and righteous.

Only when one confesses and forsakes sin will one find mercy (Proverbs 28:13).

So many today justify a sin and still be saved gospel.

...

I disagree with 2 things

First with this comment, "A person is ultimately saved by God's grace because if they sin, they do not do a good work to get clean but they repent or confess their to Jesus and continue to believe that He is their Saviour."

A person comes through Christ...in order to be justified by the faith of Christ

So while He is clean doesn't make Him saved until He walks in His cleasing

That's my take

 

[corinth77777]

I disagree with 2 things

First with this comment, "A person is ultimately saved by God's grace because if they sin, they do not do a good work to get clean but they repent or confess their to Jesus and continue to believe that He is their Saviour."

A person comes through Christ...in order to be justified by the faith of Christ

So while He is clean doesn't make Him saved until He walks in His cleasing

That's my take

....

 

[corinth77777]

Here's so you know what love is, because no one obeys any law except to love, and most people don't love.

Matthew chapter 25 verses 31-46
When the Son of Man comes" in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. he will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and got visit you? The King will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

And we don't love because we don't know Him..because to know Him is to Love

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Our continued obedience will also be a result of grace, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and our continuing faithfulness and cooperation with it, with Him. With His help it's as simple as Basil of Cesarea, a 4th century believer, put it:
If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.

Not necessarily easy...but simple enough.

"And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." (Jude 1:23).

...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I disagree with 2 things

First with this comment, "A person is ultimately saved by God's grace because if they sin, they do not do a good work to get clean but they repent or confess their to Jesus and continue to believe that He is their Saviour."

When I say a believer does not do works to get clean, I am not referring to the Sanctification process (which is a different type of cleansing). I am referring to when a believer sins. They need to confess their sins to Jesus to be forgiven (See 1 John 2:2, 1 John 1:9). This also includes continued faith or trust in Jesus Christ and His death and resurrection (on our behalf for our salvation).

A person comes through Christ...in order to be justified by the faith of Christ

So while He is clean doesn't make Him saved until He walks in His cleasing

That's my take

A person is saved initially by God's grace without any works (Ephesians 2:8-9). This is how we are ultimately saved. However, we have to continue to abide in Christ who is the source of our salvation. For he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12). When I say we have to continue to abide in Christ, this will involve works because it is Christ (God) who does the good work within a believer's life. So yes, works are a part of the salvation process, but they are ultimately a result of abiding in Christ and His words. For one of the tests of knowing Christ or not is if we find we are keeping His Commandments (1 John 2:3-4).


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Here's so you know what love is, because no one obeys any law except to love, and most people don't love.

Matthew chapter 25 verses 31-46
When the Son of Man comes" in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. he will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and got visit you? The King will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

Yes, this is just ONE of the ways to love according to God's Word. This is proving my point and not your initial statement. You said to just love and now you are giving me details from God's Word on how to love after I told you about how we need to keep the Commands in the New Testament (which would include Matthew 25). We are also to feed the sheep if we love Jesus, too. We are to love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, as well. Preach the gospel. Love our enemies, etc.


...

 

[disciple1]

Yes, this is just ONE of the ways to love according to God's Word. This is proving my point and not your initial statement. You said to just love and now you are giving me details from God's Word on how to love after I told you about how we need to keep the Commands in the New Testament (which would include Matthew 25). We are also to feed the sheep if we love Jesus, too. We are to love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, as well. Preach the gospel. Love our enemies, etc.


...

Jesus didn't come, just to change a few laws and die for sins, he came so we'd follow his example of love as he taught.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus didn't come, just to change a few laws and die for sins, he came so we'd follow his example of love as he taught.

Well, by obeying the commands in the New Testament (and not the Old) you are going to follow Jesus's example. But you are wrong in saying that Jesus did not come to die for sins and you are wrong for saying that Jesus did not come to change the Law. Scripture does say that He died for our sins (Romans 4:25) and we can have salvation though His sacrifice and resurrection by believing in Jesus as our Savior or by receiving Him by faith for our salvation (John 1:12). That is how salvation starts or begins. We are initially and ultimately saved by His grace (Ephesians 2:8-9). But saving grace leads to the next stage or step in the salvation process. This is continuing to abide in Christ whereby we will love like Jesus loved by obeying His commands (that come from Him and His followers - written in the pages of the New Testament). So which laws do we obey as a part of abiding Christ (Who is the source of our salvation)? Hebrews 7:12 says the law has changed. Paul says we are not under the Law (Romans 6:14) and yet he says that what he had written should be regarded as the Lord's commandments (1 Corinthians 14:37). So this would be the commands primarily in the New Testament we obey and not the Old Testament. For the Old Testament (or Old Covenant) is no longer in effect. It's why Paul condemns circumcision, and why God told Peter he can eat unclean animals and why the temple veil was torn from top to bottom.


...

 

[Dkh587]

Jesus didn't come, just to change a few laws and die for sins, he came so we'd follow his example of love as he taught.

Christ showed us what obeying God's commandments looked like.
He obeyed them and revealed what it's supposed to look like when you obey God's commandments.

Christ didn't obey & teach Gods commands properly only for us to not have to obey God's commands ourselves. He showed us the correct way to obey them.

He fully preached the law & prophets. He taught them and lived them. He is the law and prophets personified. He set an example for us to follow.

 

[Dkh587]

Christ himself said, he came to call sinners to repentance

Luke 5:32
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Some of the first words during Christ's ministry...

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

How do we repent? How do we know which sins we are committing that we should be repenting of?

 

[disciple1]

Christ showed us what obeying God's commandments looked like.
He obeyed them and revealed what it's supposed to look like when you obey God's commandments.

Christ didn't obey & teach Gods commands properly only for us to not have to obey God's commands ourselves. He showed us the correct way to obey them.

He fully preached the law & prophets. He taught them and lived them. He is the law and prophets personified. He set an example for us to follow.

No one but Christ ever obeyed the law. Study the bible, as it say in John chapter 8 verse 31,32 you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
As it is now you don't know the truth and your a hypocrite.

 

[Apex]

Does this render the 10 Commandments obsolete?

Was murder, adultery, or idolatry immoral before Moses came down from the mountain with the stone tablets?

Here is my analogy: Let's say you lived in Florida and then moved to Colorado. You were once under Florida state law, but now you are under Colorado state law. Florida's laws still exist and, if you wanted, you could get on a plane and enter back under them, but while you are in Colorado you must answer to Colorado's authority - and vice versa. However, there is another "law" layer to all this. You are equally under the federal law of the United States of America while in either state. This is why many of the state laws between Florida and Colorado are the same. Just because you left Florida, where it is illegal to commit murder, and entered into another state - this does not mean murder is now legal in this new state. This is because murder is against federal law. On the other side, the laws surrounding individual property rights are vastly different. But since these laws don't contradict federal law, each state is allowed this autonomy.

So, in this analogy...
Law of Moses = Florida law
Law of Christ = Colorado law
Absolute Morality = Federal law

When it comes to the question about the relationship a Christian has with the Law of Moses - it is actually a question about jurisdiction. We are now under the Law of Christ.