The False RAPTURE theory

Spookydawg77

Member
Aug 15, 2017
14
9
47
Leitchfield
✟16,321.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
THE DEATH IN RAPTURE
...the famine of today is not for bread, but for truth... DO NOT leave our Father; who leads, guides and directs out of the equation of your every very thought.

NOTE: If the rapture theory is a true Biblical teaching, then why was it not well known and popularized until the early 20th century?

Let me get one thing out of the way first. The word "rapture" is not found anywhere in the Bible. So where do they get the word from? It was coined from the words "caught up" found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

What I would like to do is drop a Biblical bomb straight away on the pre-tribulation rapture teaching and expose it's weakness. That Bible bomb is found in Matthew, chapter 13. In this chapter, Christ Jesus is telling a parable and teaching a lesson concerning the events of the last days and the second coming. Let's look at what He says:

Matthew 13:24-30
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Friends, the rapture teaching is a false one invented by Satan to cause God's people to be unprepared for the time of trouble ahead, that we WILL go through.

What Happens at the End of the World?
For Jesus to say "end of the world", there must be some destructive event to take place right? So what event is coming that would be an "end of the world" event? THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST JESUS! Take a look at the following Bible verses describing the second coming and you will see that THIS is the event that will "end this world" as we know it.

Revelation:1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

2 Peter:3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2 Thessalonians:1:7-8
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Psalm:50:3-4
Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.

Isaiah:34:8-10
For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
Amen.

No where in our Fathers holy written word is there any scripture found supporting "the rapture." There are, however, plenty scriptures that prophesy that great day when our Lord Jesus Christ returns at the 7th trump; when we will ALL (every living person on earth) be transformed immediately into our spiritual bodies and bow before Him.

1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

...Now lets go back a few verses and a few after to pick up a little more understanding...

1 Corinthians 15:33-54
33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Amen.

Such beautiful scripture; and even better and even more knowledgeable if you back up and just read the whole chapter. The word of God is moving and powerful.

...Now lets read these 4 famous verses that lead a lot of those ignorant in Gods word down the wrong path (rapture theory) ESPECIALLY when it is being read and preached to you (by a preacher/teacher/minister...) and is taken out of the context that it is delivered. Be learned of his wisdom by reading the book its found in and don't rely on mans words to save your soul, but our Heavenly Fathers Holy living word.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 4:17
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Amen.

These last few verses are where a lot of the false teachings and misinterpretations and the twisting, of those ignorant in our fathers word, come from concerning this evil and soul destroying rapture doctrine.
...So lets take these scriptures back to the Greek, of which they were written, and of the time and place it was spoken... and lets investigate a little here...
Paul (the author) spoke colloquial Greek (street/slang sort of a way of talking) And our Strongs Concordance tells us that the word/expression "cloud" means a grouping of... And the word "air" means our spirit.

We return to our spirit bodies and instantly gain the blessed knowledge of our celestial selves and memories of old when our true Messiah returns, so... until this transformation of us from our flesh bodies into our spiritual bodies takes place on the great and mighty day our Lord King Christ Jesus returns, ...We will stick right here with our feet on the ground and our minds in the Lord.

...here's a little more reproofing...

Ezekiel:13:18-20
And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?

Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
AMEN.

Do not be fooled by Satan's coming as our Lord God to destroy the souls all those that haven't the guidance from the wisdom our written word teaches. Satan will try to fly you away and A LOT will jump right on board thinking that it's the true Messiah coming to rapture them away... Satan will deceive A LOT, do not be one that he decieves, but rather build your Christian armor, as we're instructed to, to rebuke him and stand, strongly rooted in our fathers word, against him until he is taken out of the way.

I hope this was as fun and enlightening to read as it was for me to bring it to you, but most importantly, study our fathers word. You don't have to be a scholar to understand it... Its a book... Start at the beginning, pray for guidance and understanding, and read until the end AMEN.
 

Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2017
424
234
28
Heaven
✟12,836.00
Country
Zimbabwe
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
THE DEATH IN RAPTURE
...the famine of today is not for bread, but for truth... DO NOT leave our Father; who leads, guides and directs out of the equation of your every very thought.

NOTE: If the rapture theory is a true Biblical teaching, then why was it not well known and popularized until the early 20th century?

Let me get one thing out of the way first. The word "rapture" is not found anywhere in the Bible. So where do they get the word from? It was coined from the words "caught up" found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

What I would like to do is drop a Biblical bomb straight away on the pre-tribulation rapture teaching and expose it's weakness. That Bible bomb is found in Matthew, chapter 13. In this chapter, Christ Jesus is telling a parable and teaching a lesson concerning the events of the last days and the second coming. Let's look at what He says:

Matthew 13:24-30
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Friends, the rapture teaching is a false one invented by Satan to cause God's people to be unprepared for the time of trouble ahead, that we WILL go through.

What Happens at the End of the World?
For Jesus to say "end of the world", there must be some destructive event to take place right? So what event is coming that would be an "end of the world" event? THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST JESUS! Take a look at the following Bible verses describing the second coming and you will see that THIS is the event that will "end this world" as we know it.

Revelation:1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

2 Peter:3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2 Thessalonians:1:7-8
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Psalm:50:3-4
Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.

Isaiah:34:8-10
For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
Amen.

No where in our Fathers holy written word is there any scripture found supporting "the rapture." There are, however, plenty scriptures that prophesy that great day when our Lord Jesus Christ returns at the 7th trump; when we will ALL (every living person on earth) be transformed immediately into our spiritual bodies and bow before Him.

1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

...Now lets go back a few verses and a few after to pick up a little more understanding...

1 Corinthians 15:33-54
33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Amen.

Such beautiful scripture; and even better and even more knowledgeable if you back up and just read the whole chapter. The word of God is moving and powerful.

...Now lets read these 4 famous verses that lead a lot of those ignorant in Gods word down the wrong path (rapture theory) ESPECIALLY when it is being read and preached to you (by a preacher/teacher/minister...) and is taken out of the context that it is delivered. Be learned of his wisdom by reading the book its found in and don't rely on mans words to save your soul, but our Heavenly Fathers Holy living word.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 4:17
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Amen.

These last few verses are where a lot of the false teachings and misinterpretations and the twisting, of those ignorant in our fathers word, come from concerning this evil and soul destroying rapture doctrine.
...So lets take these scriptures back to the Greek, of which they were written, and of the time and place it was spoken... and lets investigate a little here...
Paul (the author) spoke colloquial Greek (street/slang sort of a way of talking) And our Strongs Concordance tells us that the word/expression "cloud" means a grouping of... And the word "air" means our spirit.

We return to our spirit bodies and instantly gain the blessed knowledge of our celestial selves and memories of old when our true Messiah returns, so... until this transformation of us from our flesh bodies into our spiritual bodies takes place on the great and mighty day our Lord King Christ Jesus returns, ...We will stick right here with our feet on the ground and our minds in the Lord.

...here's a little more reproofing...

Ezekiel:13:18-20
And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?

Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
AMEN.

Do not be fooled by Satan's coming as our Lord God to destroy the souls all those that haven't the guidance from the wisdom our written word teaches. Satan will try to fly you away and A LOT will jump right on board thinking that it's the true Messiah coming to rapture them away... Satan will deceive A LOT, do not be one that he decieves, but rather build your Christian armor, as we're instructed to, to rebuke him and stand, strongly rooted in our fathers word, against him until he is taken out of the way.

I hope this was as fun and enlightening to read as it was for me to bring it to you, but most importantly, study our fathers word. You don't have to be a scholar to understand it... Its a book... Start at the beginning, pray for guidance and understanding, and read until the end AMEN.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-14

Paul said we , he was thinking that rapture will take place before he even die . He was sure that dead people will rise first , then we which are alive , including himself in this alive group.

Rapture was known around 60 AD or so .
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Marvin Knox
Upvote 0

Spookydawg77

Member
Aug 15, 2017
14
9
47
Leitchfield
✟16,321.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
1 Thessalonians 4:13-14

Paul said we , he was thinking that rapture will take place before he even die . He was sure that dead people will rise first , then we which are alive , including himself in this alive group.

Rapture was known around 60 AD or so .
1 Thessalonians 4:13-14

Paul said we , he was thinking that rapture will take place before he even die . He was sure that dead people will rise first , then we which are alive , including himself in this alive group.

Rapture was known around 60 AD or so .
Thats why i stick with kjv bible... other versions become very misleading in critical areas...
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1 Thessalonians:4:13 - "asleep" meaning flesh body is dead and the spirit is in Heaven ...and "others which have no hope" meaning the heathern.

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1 Thessalonians:4:14. - Jesus comes back for the Lords day (millennium) THEN God comes at end of 1,000 years with great White throne of judgement for all.
Kjv also works with a strongs concordance (every word and in the tongue spoken at that time)
 
Upvote 0

sdowney717

Newbie
Apr 20, 2013
8,712
2,021
✟102,588.00
Faith
Christian
The rapture is not a pre trib rapture, but a post trib rapture which occurs when Christ returns.
During the tribulation many of the saints are killed by the beast world system.

Some though survive, the 'we who are left, who remain alive until the coming of the Lord' are those who do.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18New King James Version (NKJV)
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
 
Upvote 0

DeaconDean

γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον
Jul 19, 2005
22,183
2,677
61
Gastonia N.C. (Piedmont of N.C.)
✟100,334.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
One "rapture"/"resurrection" has already occurred. What about those who arose from their graves with Jesus?

Here is another item, there are three theories on this, a "pre", "mid", and "post".

What do you believe about the scriptures? Are they really the word of God?

Do you believe that in what it teaches, it is infallible?

I believe the scriptures are the word of God, and that they are infallible in what they teach.

Having said that, I see according to scriptures, perhaps two very different arrivals of Jesus.

I see 1 Cor. 15:51-54 and 1 Thes. 4:13-16 as the same.

These agree completely with Acts 1:9-11, and Psa. 47:5.

However, when you compare 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thes. 4:13-16, with 2 Thes. 1:7-8, and Rev. 19:11-21, they do not agree with Acts 1:9-11.

Scriptures tell us specifically that whoever these two individuals were who appeared to the disciples, that as they saw him go, He would return the same way. (cf. Acts 1:11)

Show in scripture where Jesus ascended up, into heaven "in flaming fire taking vengeance" (cf. 2 Thes. 1:8) or where Jesus ascended up, into heaven "sitting upon a white horse". (cf. Rev. 19:11)

That is just a plain and simple scripture comparison.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: MWood
Upvote 0

DeaconDean

γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον
Jul 19, 2005
22,183
2,677
61
Gastonia N.C. (Piedmont of N.C.)
✟100,334.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
In all seriousness, we're talking eschatology.

That is a very big and a very deep subject. Even Jesus admitted that He, the God-Man did not know the day and hour.

I've had this debate many times in 12 years here. The most amusing is the Catholic viewpoint on the book of Revelation. Nothing in that book can be taken literally, it must be understood allegorically or symbolically.

Another amusing theory is that we are currently at or very near the opening of the 4th seal.

Lets look for just a second at that.

If they are correct and we are on the verge of the 4th seal being opened, we are on the verge of the death of 1.6 billion people!

It says that a quarter of the world will die shortly after the opening of the 4th seal.

Can anybody prove how many of them are Christians and how many are unsaved? Scriptures make no distinction.

Jump ahead a little more. When the 3rd trumpet sounds, it says many will die from the bad water.

The 6th trumpet sounds and another 3rd part of the people die. And that is not even the worst part.

1.6 billion at the opening of the 4th seal. That leaves 4.8 billion remaining. Out of that, another 3rd die or another 1.6 billion.

It is concievable that between the 7 seals and the 7 trumpets, half of the current worlds population will die.

Out of the 3.2 billion that remain, how many are Christians?

Out of the 3.2 billion, how many will take the mark of the beast and receive an automatic sentence to the lake of fire?

Out of the 3.2 billion left, how many will be saved?

That is, if we take God's word literally. (Which I do)

The possibilities stagger the mind if you think about it.

So ask yourself, are we as Christians going to have to suffer and die the same as the world during this time?

The only position that is tenable is the pre-trib rapture position.

Between the 7 seals, the 7 trumpets, and the 7 vials, when is the midpoint?

Post is the most dangerous as Christians as well as the unsaved will be tormented and killed right along with the unsaved.

I also admit that it is possible that what happens between the second vial and fifth vial could be what Peter predicted in 2 Pet. 2:10, 12. A nuclear blast. I fear that the most as if one side uses a nuke, the other will also and that could end all life as we know it.

Lets face it also, after a certain point, the book of Revelation is nothing but God's wrath poured out on an unrepentant, unsaved, ungodly world.

And we are also told that we (Christians) are not appointed unto wrath, but delivered from the wrath to come.

I just do not see how the "mid" or "post" positions are tenable and make any sense.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: MWood
Upvote 0

sdowney717

Newbie
Apr 20, 2013
8,712
2,021
✟102,588.00
Faith
Christian
In all seriousness, we're talking eschatology.

That is a very big and a very deep subject. Even Jesus admitted that He, the God-Man did not know the day and hour.

I've had this debate many times in 12 years here. The most amusing is the Catholic viewpoint on the book of Revelation. Nothing in that book can be taken literally, it must be understood allegorically or symbolically.

Another amusing theory is that we are currently at or very near the opening of the 4th seal.

Lets look for just a second at that.

If they are correct and we are on the verge of the 4th seal being opened, we are on the verge of the death of 1.6 billion people!

It says that a quarter of the world will die shortly after the opening of the 4th seal.

Can anybody prove how many of them are Christians and how many are unsaved? Scriptures make no distinction.

Jump ahead a little more. When the 3rd trumpet sounds, it says many will die from the bad water.

The 6th trumpet sounds and another 3rd part of the people die. And that is not even the worst part.

1.6 billion at the opening of the 4th seal. That leaves 4.8 billion remaining. Out of that, another 3rd die or another 1.6 billion.

It is concievable that between the 7 seals and the 7 trumpets, half of the current worlds population will die.

Out of the 3.2 billion that remain, how many are Christians?

Out of the 3.2 billion, how many will take the mark of the beast and receive an automatic sentence to the lake of fire?

Out of the 3.2 billion left, how many will be saved?

That is, if we take God's word literally. (Which I do)

The possibilities stagger the mind if you think about it.

So ask yourself, are we as Christians going to have to suffer and die the same as the world during this time?

The only position that is tenable is the pre-trib rapture position.

Between the 7 seals, the 7 trumpets, and the 7 vials, when is the midpoint?

Post is the most dangerous as Christians as well as the unsaved will be tormented and killed right along with the unsaved.

I also admit that it is possible that what happens between the second vial and fifth vial could be what Peter predicted in 2 Pet. 2:10, 12. A nuclear blast. I fear that the most as if one side uses a nuke, the other will also and that could end all life as we know it.

Lets face it also, after a certain point, the book of Revelation is nothing but God's wrath poured out on an unrepentant, unsaved, ungodly world.

And we are also told that we (Christians) are not appointed unto wrath, but delivered from the wrath to come.

I just do not see how the "mid" or "post" positions are tenable and make any sense.

God Bless

Till all are one.
Yes we are not appointed to GOD's wrath.
We are delivered from God's wrath only. In the world though we have persecutions, trials and troubles.

But in the beast's governmental antichrist system, it is not God's wrath but Satan's wrath killing believers.
Woe to the inhabitants of the earth. That includes all inhabitants, saved and unsaved, regarding their physical life on the earth. Recall Jesus tells us not to fear him who after killing the body can not kill the soul, that would include not fearing the devil or his people.

Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Spookydawg77
Upvote 0

sdowney717

Newbie
Apr 20, 2013
8,712
2,021
✟102,588.00
Faith
Christian
Example, a great multitude were killed during the great tribulation.
These were Christians.

Rev 7
9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:

“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”

13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
 
Upvote 0

sdowney717

Newbie
Apr 20, 2013
8,712
2,021
✟102,588.00
Faith
Christian
Another example
Same 7th chapter different book.

Daniel 7

19 “Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20 and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.

21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them,

22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.


23 “Thus he said:

‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.

Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.


26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’
 
Upvote 0

Spookydawg77

Member
Aug 15, 2017
14
9
47
Leitchfield
✟16,321.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
One "rapture"/"resurrection" has already occurred. What about those who arose from their graves with Jesus?

Here is another item, there are three theories on this, a "pre", "mid", and "post".

What do you believe about the scriptures? Are they really the word of God?

Do you believe that in what it teaches, it is infallible?

I believe the scriptures are the word of God, and that they are infallible in what they teach.

Having said that, I see according to scriptures, perhaps two very different arrivals of Jesus.

I see 1 Cor. 15:51-54 and 1 Thes. 4:13-16 as the same.

These agree completely with Acts 1:9-11, and Psa. 47:5.

However, when you compare 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thes. 4:13-16, with 2 Thes. 1:7-8, and Rev. 19:11-21, they do not agree with Acts 1:9-11.

Scriptures tell us specifically that whoever these two individuals were who appeared to the disciples, that as they saw him go, He would return the same way. (cf. Acts 1:11)

Show in scripture where Jesus ascended up, into heaven "in flaming fire taking vengeance" (cf. 2 Thes. 1:8) or where Jesus ascended up, into heaven "sitting upon a white horse". (cf. Rev. 19:11)

That is just a plain and simple scripture comparison.

God Bless

Till all are one.
kjv
this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Acts 1:11... "in like manner" not "return the same way." -the subject here is Jesus returning awesomely into heaven - and "in the LIKE manner" (...as awesome as it was to watch Him ascend up He will "in like manner" just as awesomely descend as he returns)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

sdowney717

Newbie
Apr 20, 2013
8,712
2,021
✟102,588.00
Faith
Christian
kjv
this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Acts 1:11... "in like manner" not "return the same way." -the subject here is Jesus returning awesomely into heaven - and "in the LIKE manner" (...as awesome as it was to watch Him ascend up He will "in like manner" just as awesomely descend as he returns)
The rapture idea so taught is that of a silent secret returning of Christ, and that is not in the scripture.
Every eye shall see Him coming on the clouds. Just as He was taken up in a cloud, he will return also.

Revelation 1:7
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Spookydawg77
Upvote 0

sdowney717

Newbie
Apr 20, 2013
8,712
2,021
✟102,588.00
Faith
Christian
Where will they be taken?
Some people assume the ones taken are preserved for salvation, as in the 'pre trib rapture', but no, they are taken as were those of Noah's time, for destruction.

Matthew 24
36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what houryour Lord is coming.

Another example, taken to a place of destruction. Note Jesus is teaching the same subject. The eagles are birds of prey, they will consume and destroy the wicked. Where the body is there the eagles will gather.
The great supper of God is also taught in Revelation.

Luke 17:30-37 New King James Version (NKJV)
30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

31 “In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife.33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”

37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”

So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
 
Upvote 0

sdowney717

Newbie
Apr 20, 2013
8,712
2,021
✟102,588.00
Faith
Christian
Revelation 19:16-18New King James Version (NKJV)
16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

The Beast and His Armies Defeated
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people,free and slave, both small and great.”
 
Upvote 0

Marvin Knox

Senior Veteran
May 9, 2014
4,291
1,453
✟84,588.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
There have been many books written on this subject from many different viewpoints. I have read some of them.

IMO the teaching which holds the most water is the pre-trib rapture concept.

The OP obviously took a lot of work to put together. But there are writings along those lines which lay that idea out even more thoroughly and I have read some of them.

I still feel that the pre-trib idea is the most well argued of the bunch.

I get a kick out of all the warning about the extreme dangesr of believing in the pre-trib rapture.

Bologna IMO.

It has been my experience over many decades of studying theology and observing the different camps within Christianity that, generally speaking, the most personally committed and fervent Christians in the world are often and perhaps even usually in the evangelical pre-trib camp.
 
Upvote 0

Spookydawg77

Member
Aug 15, 2017
14
9
47
Leitchfield
✟16,321.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There have been many books written on this subject from many different viewpoints. I have read some of them.

IMO the teaching which holds the most water is the pre-trib rapture concept.

The OP obviously took a lot of work to put together. But there are writings along those lines which lay that idea out even more thoroughly and I have read some of them.

I still feel that the pre-trib idea is the most well argued of the bunch.

I get a kick out of all the warning about the extreme dangesr of believing in the pre-trib rapture.

Bologna IMO.

It has been my experience over many decades of studying theology and observing the different camps within Christianity that, generally speaking, the most personally committed and fervent Christians in the world are often and perhaps even usually in the evangelical pre-trib camp.
We're instructed to put on our Spiritual armor to defend ourselves against the fiery darts of Satan. rapture has been taught by the church system of mans traditions that make void the word of God. Mans word, not the manuscripts, but mans, which tell a totally different story, corrupt the crowds by the masses with thier false teaching. God bless
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Marvin Knox

Senior Veteran
May 9, 2014
4,291
1,453
✟84,588.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
We're instructed to put on our Spiritual armor to defend ourselves against the fiery darts of Satan. rapture has been taught by the church system of mans traditions that make void the word of God. Mans word, not the manuscripts, but mans, which tell a totally different story, corrupt the crowds by the masses with thier false teaching. God bless
A view of the last days with which you happen to disagree is labeled as a "fiery dart of Satan", a "false teaching", and a "man made tradition" which "makes void the Word of God"?

That's a pretty heavy indictment of a system of eschatology which is at least as prevalent and popular among your brother theologians as the ammillennial viewpoint and much more so than post millennialism.

Wouldn't it be preferable to the Lord to simply present your interpretation and let others present theirs? If yours is more scipturally supported, you can simply say so fairly forcefully rather than slander millions of your brothers and sisters in Christ.

I have on my desk a book from each eschatological viewpoint and a book which presents most of the different viewpoints side by side. The authors are all accredited theologians in their own right.

None of them say the kind of things you have said regarding the viewpoint of their "adversarial" interlocutors.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: MWood
Upvote 0

Spookydawg77

Member
Aug 15, 2017
14
9
47
Leitchfield
✟16,321.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The reason I tend to get salty when it comes to the fake rapture Theory is because it will be one of the lying wonders that Satan will use to deceive claiming he is Christ and to come fly away with him. Dont teach my children to fly says the Lord
God bless
 
Upvote 0

Marvin Knox

Senior Veteran
May 9, 2014
4,291
1,453
✟84,588.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
The reason I tend to get salty when it comes to the fake rapture Theory is because it will be one of the lying wonders that Satan will use to deceive claiming he is Christ and to come fly away with him. Dont teach my children to fly says the Lord God bless
And where does it say all that?
 
Upvote 0

DeaconDean

γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον
Jul 19, 2005
22,183
2,677
61
Gastonia N.C. (Piedmont of N.C.)
✟100,334.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Yes we are not appointed to GOD's wrath.
We are delivered from God's wrath only. In the world though we have persecutions, trials and troubles.

But in the beast's governmental antichrist system, it is not God's wrath but Satan's wrath killing believers.
Woe to the inhabitants of the earth. That includes all inhabitants, saved and unsaved, regarding their physical life on the earth. Recall Jesus tells us not to fear him who after killing the body can not kill the soul, that would include not fearing the devil or his people.

Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

I do not disagree with anything you said.

I just disagree with the thought that Christians as well as the unsaved, will both suffer during that time.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: MWood
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DeaconDean

γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον
Jul 19, 2005
22,183
2,677
61
Gastonia N.C. (Piedmont of N.C.)
✟100,334.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
kjv
this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Acts 1:11... "in like manner" not "return the same way." -the subject here is Jesus returning awesomely into heaven - and "in the LIKE manner" (...as awesome as it was to watch Him ascend up He will "in like manner" just as awesomely descend as he returns)

The rapture idea so taught is that of a silent secret returning of Christ, and that is not in the scripture.
Every eye shall see Him coming on the clouds. Just as He was taken up in a cloud, he will return also.

So, in any of my posts, where did I say there would be a "secret" rapture?

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MWood
Upvote 0