Catholic vs. Protestant Christianity

[Thursday]

It's not that they lie, it's how they have been brought up. You have to back 500 years to see how they overhauled God's justice and mercy. We have no business holding Protestants today accountable for the errors of yesterday.

I'm speaking of those on this board who after being shown the biblical defense of the doctrine of purgatory then claim that there is no biblical basis for purgatory.

 

[Phil 1:21]

HOWEVER, if you want to say that there can be an honest disagreement as to whether certain passages in Scripture either affirm a Purgatory or do not do so, that's a different matter. But in fact, it is what we have here and yet there still is name-calling against people who simply disagree on the meaning of these passages in question.

I can't speak to the RCC as a whole, but when I grew up in the church we weren't exactly taught to engage Christianity through the scope of critical thought. We were taught to accept, believe, and not question. To question would be to not believe, and that would result in damnation. So there was no reason to actually study the Bible; the church already did that for us. I was actually floored when I grew up and read the Bible the first time for myself that so many of the things we were taught were either unbiblical or outright counter-biblical.

So I understand when disagreements about theology with some members of the RCC are responded to with insults or Bible verses that have nothing to do with the subject at hand. Perhaps they came up the same way I did and that's all they know. I'm not sure, but regardless, I don't take it personally.

 

[Albion]

So I understand when disagreements about theology with some members of the RCC are responded to with insults or Bible verses that have nothing to do with the subject at hand. Perhaps they came up the same way I did and that's all they know. I'm not sure, but regardless, I don't take it personally.

That's commendable. I might add that it's usually recent converts who are still in the "Eureka. It's all so clear now!" mindset that are this way. Cradle Catholics normally are nothing like that.

 

[Root of Jesse]

HI - I am not posting this to start any kind of fight. I am just really really curious and confused.
Currently, I am attending a presbyterian church and have many bible conservative friends. I am pretty new to Christianity and when I ask about these, my friends tend to just brush it off as "because the pastor said..." or "Catholic is idolism..." kind of skewed judgement and opinions. So if you could please, just share what you think about my questions.... I have never studied or learned Catholic faith (if it is any different from Christianity I learned from my church), so please forgive my ignorance.

1. Catholics believe in Jesus as their savior and he is the son of the God. So Catholics do go to heaven as well, right? (My friend said in the Catholic faith, it said they have to do good things to be in Heaven, so they can't go to Heaven because Catholics don't believe in Jesus solely to go to heaven. Honestly, I didn't get what she meant.)

Catholics who die in friendship with God go to heaven. I don't know what she means, either. Catholics' good works proceed from their belief in Christ.

2. If i missed my church's sermon on Sunday morning, can I go to a Catholic mass? (I know going to a sermon is not 100% necessary action to take, but I like to have something in my weekend to keep my spirit up for the upcoming week.) As a non-Catholic, but Christian, can I attend the mass?

Certainly you may attend Mass. You may not receive the Eucharist, though.

3. During the Catholic mass, when they give out the bread and wine part (I am sorry, I don't know what it is called...My church doesn't do it a lot..may be on Christmas only.). am I allowed to join because I was baptized as a Christian? Or is it solely for Catholic?

No, you can't. You must assent to all that the Catholic Church believes in order to receive the Eucharist. We believe it is the real Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus.

4. My church said I don't need to pray to my angel or saints or anyone except Jesus. Then what is the purpose of angels and saints? Even if the saints are not 'real' in protestant faith, isn't angel something the God said we all have? Should we just...ignore them?

Very good question. No, you don't NEED to. Just as when you attend a banquet, you need not partake of everything there. You don't need to, but perhaps you'll want to.

5. What is the role of Mary in Catholic church? I know Catholics don't' worship her, but honor her because she was the mother of Jesus. Then why not honor Joseph, the father of Jesus, in the same respect? Why is the virgin birth so important? Isn't Nazareth's revival more amazing miracle? (Again, I am new to the faith, this question is out from my ignorance. Not trying ot compare miracles or anything like that)

We do honor Joseph, but he is not the father of Jesus, but the foster-father.

6. Does Catholic really teach that non-believers who do good things also go to heaven?

We do not decide who does and who does not go to heaven. We listen to God's decision. He will let us know when some of his faithful are there. Same thing with hell. We don't know who is in hell. We depend on God's mercy to tell us.

7. I don't see a lot of Catholic evangelism movement as much as Protestant churches do. Is there reason for it or Catholics do have those movements but it is just not well known?

I know, our evangelists are few and far between. Mostly, they're the clergy-priests, bishops and the pope. But they're out there. Look up Matthew Kelly at DynamicCatholic.com, CatholicAnswers.com, Jimmy Akin, Tim Staples there, there's Richard Lane, Hector Molina, Jesse Romero, and many others. They aren't as prevalent here in the US because the Catholic Church isn't as dominant here. Even though we have about 70 million Catholics in this country.

Thank you so much if you are answering any of the questions above. I am just really curious and confused.

Thank you

Now watch the arguments proceed. It's not your fault, though.

 

[JacksBratt]

In both cases Jesus and Paul are stating that is better for the sake of the Kingdom to remain unmarried when serving the Church. That's what the Catholic Church teaches. Married priests are permitted in some cases, but they are the exception, not the rule.

The Catholic Church praises and encourages marriage if that is your vocation.

I don't understand this last part of your post:

"The Catholic Church praises and encourages marriage if that is your vocation."

If "what" is your vocation?

I don't know of any Catholic priests that are married. From outside the RCC I am under the impression that celibacy is mandatory and marriage is to the church. This is what I was told... that nuns wear a wedding band due to their marriage to the Church and/or Christ.

I certainly think that if anyone, including clergy, are so wrapped up in their vocation that they will be poor husbands and fathers.... they should not marry...

I am equally certain that if not being married causes a clergy to sin.. that is an issue.

I just feel like the catholic church misses or has missed many great teachers and leaders for this reason. I also feel that it has attracted others that should not have positions with this role of authority and "power".

 

[JacksBratt]

Jesus was Baptized in The Holy Spirit with The Holy Spirit/God descending like a Dove upon Him.

Gods Disciples and our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary Present with them and had The Holy Spirit descend upon them

I think I am going to ask for scripture to back this one up.

 

[Galilee63]

It is not only belief for many it is our relationship with and in Jesus God Holy Spirit and our Blessed Heavenly Mother Mary of Whom today we celebrate Holy Mother Mary's Holy Assumption

Assumed Body and Soul into Heaven

If you receive Jesus God and Holy Spirit into your heart as opposed to mind you would know all of these things in your heart from and through Jesus Holy Spirit God in God our Heavenly Fathers Holy Wisdom as apposed to just the earthly mind of which belongs to satan sorry and His temptations

One is either with Jesus or against Him and that includes loving His Holy Blessed Mother our real Heavenly Mother of God Holy Queen of Heaven and Earth Holy Mother of Love Mercy and Holy Graces of which come From God our Holy Divine Majesty Himself

And souls have seen this in life death situations including many non Catholics shown Heaven Purgatory and Hell given another opportunity by our Lord Jesus through our Blessedness Virgin Mother whom implores and intercedes with Jesus God and Holy Spirit for souls and their salvation

Until one receives Jesus into hearts as opposed to minds people will continue throughout satans temptations and fear and opposition to our Blessed Heavenly Holy Queen of Heaven and Earth and Holy Queen of Her Catholic Church Jesus Gods Holy Catholic Church His Church His Temple His Sacred Heart and His Priests and Religious with our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary in Holy Spirit God continue to steer hearts souls away from Her because satan claims more souls by not having hearts souls receive Gods Blessed Holy Sacraments all of them of which are Jesus Holy Spirit God Himself in His Holy Sacred Real Flesh and Blood and Real Holy Absolution by Jesus Himself Manifested and Present in every one of His Catholic Churches in His Holy Sacred Tabernacle at His Altars in His Holy Confessionals and Jesus explains this to Saint Marie Chambon St Faustina in His Holy Word to His Disciples and mankind

Jesus is from Gods Holy Order of Saint Father Melchizedek in Gods Holy Hebrew Lineage now Catholic Term used for Hebrew Lineage with all Priests continuing down the line appointed by God our Heavenly Father with all Saints of Gods His Nuns Sisters and Priests and Popes having received Jesus God Holy Spirit into hearts as opposed to minds with Jesus appearing to thousands of them and leaving Gods Holy Word writings with them including that repentance of sins made To Jesus in remorse sorrow for sins is necessary essential for salvation and receiving Him from hearts in Holy Communion

No soul unclean can ever enter Heaven The kingdom of Gods

 

[Galilee63]

The Most Holy Rosary

Is the most wonderful greatest Holiest Divine Sacred Part of Gods Holy Word with Her Holy Sacred Mysteries Gifted by God our Heavenly Father Himself for all mankind to pray reflect open hearts focussing on Jesus Bitter Passion Sorrowful Mysteries going deeper deeper into Jesus and His Sorrows Agonies torments and Sacred Heart uniting our hearts as one in Jesus Holy Spirit praying and asking for this of Jesus Holy Spirit and our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary with Jesus Himself

God delivered The Most Holy Rosary to Saint Dominic in 1214 and to many many other Holy Saints each Century with Gods Holy Message saying

"It is the greatest weapon against satan"

And

"Mans last mean/s of Salvation"

And this includes those whom chose despite warnings from Jesus God Holy Spirit and our Blessed Virgin Mother to repent

 

[amariselle]

The Most Holy Rosary

Is the most wonderful greatest Holiest Divine Sacred Part of Gods Holy Word with Her Holy Sacred Mysteries Gifted by God our Heavenly Father Himself for all mankind to pray reflect open hearts focussing on Jesus Bitter Passion Sorrowful Mysteries going deeper deeper into Jesus and His Sorrows Agonies torments and Sacred Heart uniting our hearts as one in Jesus Holy Spirit praying and asking for this of Jesus Holy Spirit and our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary with Jesus Himself

God delivered The Most Holy Rosary to Saint Dominic in 1214 and to many many other Holy Saints each Century with Gods Holy Message saying

"It is the greatest weapon against satan"

And

"Mans last mean/s of Salvation"

And this includes those whom chose despite warnings from Jesus God Holy Spirit and our Blessed Virgin Mother to repent

Wait.. are you honestly saying you believe the Rosary is "the greatest weapon against Satan"? And "man's last means of salvation"?

 

[Galilee63]

THE MAGNIFICAT

The Magnificat, taken from Luke’s Gospel (1:46-55), is the Blessed Virgin Mary’s hymn of praise to the Lord. It is also known as the Canticle of Mary in the Liturgy of the Hours, a special collection of scripture readings, psalms, and hymns that constitute what is known as the prayer of the church. (Priests and other religious are required to pray sections from the Liturgy of the Hours each day.)

Although the Magnificat has had numerous musical settings from such composers as Palestrina, Bach and Mozart, it can be recited as well as sung. Its name comes from the first line of its text in Latin (“Magnificat anima mea Dominum”) translated in the first line below. Mary proclaims the Lord’s greatness with characteristic humility and grace here.

My soul magnifies the Lord
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior;
Because He has regarded the lowliness of His handmaid;
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed;
Because He who is mighty has done great things for me,
and holy is His name;
And His mercy is from generation to generation
on those who fear Him.
He has shown might with His arm,
He has scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and has exalted the lowly.
He has filled the hungry with good things,
and the rich He has sent away empty.
He has given help to Israel, his servant, mindful of His mercy
Even as he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his posterity forever.

The Magnificat provides great material for meditation on the Visitation, the second Joyful Mystery of the Rosary, pictured above. When the angel Gabriel informs Mary that she is to be the Mother of God, he also tells her of her relative Elizabeth’s pregnancy with John the Baptist.

After Mary gives her famous consent to becoming the Mother of God, -- “Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word” (Luke 1:38) -- she goes “with haste” (1:39) to help Elizabeth, who is delighted to see her. Our Lady then expresses her joy in the Magnificat.

Clearly Mary, in hastening to help her cousin, is focused on service to others. In this way she glorifies the Lord in reflecting (and “magnifying”) His goodness and love. And, of course by becoming the Mother of God she will help Him redeem us for our salvation in His Passion!

Speaking of magnifying, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen once referred to our Blessed Mother as being like “a magnifying glass that intensifies our love of her Son.”

Note that Mary’s joyful claim that “all generations shall call me blessed” in no way takes away from her humility. If she seems to boast here, it is much as St. Paul does later on in scripture when he says “whoever boasts, should boast in the Lord” (2 Cor 10:17), that is to say, in God’s work being done through us.

In this regard, the Magnificat is more than a prayer of praise. It also reminds us about the essential link between humility and holiness. Just as God has “regarded the lowliness of his handmaid” and “has done great things” for Mary in making her the Mother of his Son, so too “he has put down the mighty from their thrones (with his own might!) and has exalted the lowly.”

(Note also our Blessed Mother’s humility in referring to herself in this prayer, as she does in giving her consent to Gabriel mentioned earlier, as the Lord’s handmaid, his servant!)

As her Divine Son later stressed “Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled, and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted” (Matt 23:12, also in slightly different words in Luke 18:14 and Luke 14:11).

Jesus wasn’t saying anything new here, either! We read similar thoughts in throughout the Old Testament such as in the Psalms and in this example from the book of Sirach “Humble yourself the more, the greater you are, and you will find favor with God.” (Sirach 3:19)

The line about God filling “the hungry with good things” resonates later in the Gospels as well, when our Lord says “Blessed are they who hunger and thirst after righteousness for they will be filled” (Matt 5:7). This serves as a good reminder for us to “stay hungry” for God’s graces in praying and in reading His word in scripture.

And as for the rich being sent away empty? This line refers to those who live for wealth and power and feel they have everything figured out. These people in, effect wish to be Gods rather than God’s. How can our Lord fill those who are already full--of themselves?

How about you? Does your soul magnify the Lord? We may never be able to approach Him from Mary’s level of sanctity as the Mother of God. Still, we are all called to be saints nonetheless.


As St. Ambrose once said in referring to this wonderful prayer, "Let Mary's soul be in us to glorify the Lord; let her spirit be in us that we may rejoice in God our Saviour."




SAINT THOMAS AQUINAS AND HIS BELOVED QUEEN AND MEDIATRIX



Sr. Thomas Mary Mc Bride, O.P.
Our Lady of Grace Monastery


Our brother St. Thomas, perhaps the greatest light of the Dominican Order, was profoundly devoted to the Blessed Virgin Mary. His little known Marian thought has been gathered in a volume entitled Saint Thomas Aquinas Meditations by Fr. P. D. Mezard, O.P. These selections, “taken verbatum from Aquinas”, are arranged in the form of short readings to accompany the feasts and seasons of the liturgical year. [1]

In the Marian prayer of St. Thomas, which is always God-centered and in relation to Christ, we find an emphasis on petition, as well as on contemplation, and even mysticism. This article will reflect these emphases in the light of the proposed fifth Marian dogma: Mary, Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix of grace, and Advocate. Careful scrutiny of St. Thomas shows that these titles of Our Lady can be found, in some form, integrated into the preaching and writing of the Angelic Doctor.

St. Thomas taught that the Blessed Virgin Mary “must be shown every honor, preached and praised, and invoked by us in our every need.” [2] She was for him the Mediatrix of all grace. “It is necessary,” St. Thomas tells us, “that whosoever desires to obtain favors with God, should approach this mediatrix, approach her with a most devout heart because, since she is the Queen of Mercy, possessing everything in the kingdom of God's justice, she cannot refuse your petition.” [3] Making the thought of St. Bernard his own St. Thomas reflects that no refusal can exist in the presence of the exceeding charity of her pierced and immaculate heart together with the pierced side and wounds of her Son. “Hence it is,” says St. Thomas, “that the Apostle speaking to the Hebrews (4:16) said, let us go therefore, with confidence to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace in seasonable aid. For of Mary it has been truly written, . . . In me is all grace of the way. . . . Therefore, come over to me, all ye that desire me, and be filled with my fruits ” (Ecclus 24:24). [4]

Because the Holy Spirit has come upon her in the Incarnation Mary is the “Throne wherein the three Divine Persons recline . . . Wherefore the Blessed Virgin is more intimately associated with God than an angel is, in as much as with her are the Lord the Father, the Lord the Son, and the Lord the Holy Spirit; in a word, the whole Trinity.” Therefore “she is called the noble Triclinium of the whole Trinity. No greater praise could be given her, then than the words of the angel, the Lord is with Thee.” [5]

In the mystery of the Incarnation the Lord himself entered into the womb of the Blessed Virgin, for she was the wonderful temple of God. And now “every creature, yes even every malefactor who runs to it with his whole heart, will be saved and every prayer poured forth in it will be heard.” [6]

“The blessed Virgin Mary received such intensity [of grace] that it brought her right next to the author of grace in order to receive him, who had full intensity of grace, into herself. And by giving birth to him, she brought, in a certain way, grace to all” [quodammodo gratiam ad omnes derivaret]. [7]

Whatever our difficulty, Thomas counsels prayer to Mary “for in every danger you can obtain salvation from this glorious Virgin [and] in every work of virtue you can have Mary as your helper [for] she truly says of herself, I am the Mother of fair love, and of fear, and of knowledge, and of holy hope. In me is all hope of life and of virtue”(Ecclus 24:24). [8]

In his Commentary on the Hail Mary, we can see traces of Mary as Co-redemptrix in that the Blessed Virgin Mary “was so full of grace that it overflows on to all mankind” and suffices for the salvation of the world.

It is, indeed, a great thing that any one saint has so much grace that it conduces to the salvation of many; but most wondrous is it to have so much as to suffice for the salvation of all mankind: and thus it is in Christ and in the Blessed Virgin. [9]

St. Thomas, like the Fathers of the Church, saw numerous typologies of Mary in the Old Testament, typologies that depict Our Lady as co-redemptrix, mediatrix and advocate. Contemplating the text, There shall come forth a rod out of the root of Jesse, and a flower shall rise up out of this root (Is 11:1), St. Thomas saw Mary as the root wielding the true rod of saving grace. [10]

Our brother St. Thomas tells us that “Mary has divided the sea for us, that is the world, so that we might pass safely through it. Lift up the rod, and stretch forth thy hands over the sea, and divide it; so that thy children . . . may go through the midst of the sea on dry ground ” (Ex 14:16). Further, “she has brought to us the water of grace from the rock Christ so that we may drink freely of this life-saving water. Take the rod . . . and speak to the rock before them, and it shall yield waters, and all the multitude shall drink”(Num 20:8). [11]

The figure of Judith was for St. Thomas another Marian typology, for in bringing forth Christ, the Virgin Mary purified God's people “and restored them to their original innocence.” He believed that what was said of Judith, was said “on account of [Mary]: Thou art the glory of Jerusalem, thou art the honor of our people. For thou hast done manfully, and thy heart has been strengthened, because thou hast loved chastity. . . . Therefore, the hand of the Lord hast strengthened thee, and therefore, thou shalt be blessed forever.” [12]

Esther in the thought of St. Thomas, corresponds to Mary’s role as Co-redemptrix. “The truth corresponding to [the] figure of [Esther]” is the story of Mary's role in our redemption. “Through queen Esther, that is, through the Blessed Virgin the sentence of damnation passed against us was revoked; namely through her intercession, through the extension of the King's golden sceptre to Mary and through her kiss on the top of that sceptre we are saved from hell and damnation. . . . Queen Esther, that is the Blessed Virgin, pleased the eyes of the King in helping to redeem the human race and she found favor in his presence, not only for herself, but for all mankind.” [13] Therefore Mary “is our beloved because we ask grace and mercy through her divine clemency. The King held out to her the golden sceptre (Esth 5:2); in which was shown the sign of mercy. . . . Mary is our beloved Queen, for through her power we are set free from the hands of all our enemies. The Lord will send forth the sceptre of thy power [out of Zion]. Rule thou in the midst of thy enemies” (Ps 109 [110]:2). [14]

In the contemplation of St. Thomas the virginal body of Mary as well as her soul overflowed with grace. “The soul of the Blessed Virgin was so full of grace that it overflowed into her flesh thus fitting it for the conception of God's Son.” [15] Her immaculate heart, her feelings, mind and will were all involved in the conception and care of her Son, just as it is in helping each of us conceive and bring forth Christ in our soul. “For in every danger you can obtain salvation from this glorious Virgin: Thy neck is as the tower of David, which is built with bulwarks. A thousand bucklers hang upon it, all the armour of valiant men (Cant 4:4). Likewise in every work of virtue you can have Mary as your helper and therefore, she truly says of herself, In me is all hope of life and of virtue” (Ecclus 24:24). [16]

Mary, in the vision of St. Thomas is, next to her Son, “full of grace, surpassing the angels in that plenitude: for which reason she is rightly called ‘Mary,’ which signifies ‘enlightened’--in herself: The Lord will fill thy soul with brightness (Is 58:11) --and enlightening others throughout the world below: wherefore she is compared to the sun and the moon.” [17]

Mary not only brings Christ to us, she brings us to Christ. St. Thomas, in interpreting the mystical meaning of the wedding of Cana considers that Mary is present in the mystical marriage of the soul with God and that it is she who “arranges the marriage, because through her intercession, the soul is joined to Christ through grace.” [18] St. Thomas points out that it was the fiat of Mary which allowed the spiritual marriage between the Son of God and human nature to take place. In the plan of God Mary’s “yes” stood for the “yes” of all God’s people thereby making it possible for every person to pronounce his or her own fiat and attain intimate union with the divine nature. [19]

When St. Thomas asks, in the Summa Theologiae, whether God could have made things better than they are, he answers, surprisingly, yes. But when it comes to the humanity of Christ, or the happiness of the beatific vision, or the dignity of the blessed Virgin Mary, he answers with what is perhaps the most beautiful words he ever wrote on Mary. The humanity of Christ, since it is united to the Godhead; the beatific vision, since it is the fruition of God; and the blessed Virgin, since she is the mother of God – all have a certain dignity from the infinite good, who is God. And so therefore there cannot be anything better or more sublime. [20]

St. Thomas calls Mary mediatrix and consolatrix [21] and in his prayer he entrusts his entire person to the intimacy of her pure, grace-filled and loving heart. According to St. Thomas the prayer of petition is an affair of the practical reason. The Saints, above all, are conscious of their spiritual poverty and need of help on their reditus back to God. St. Thomas wrote a prayer to the most Blessed Virgin Mary expressing his own need for help and dependence upon her as his mediatrix, advocate and co-redemptrix. From this prayer, several pages in length, there follows a few excerpts:

O most blessed and sweet Virgin Mary,

Mother of God, filled with all tenderness,

Daughter of the most high King,

Lady of the Angels,

Mother of all the faithful,

On this day and all the days of my life,

I entrust to your merciful heart

my body and my soul,

all my acts, thoughts, choices,

desires, words, deeds,

my entire life and death,

So that, per tua suffragia,

all may be ordered to the good

according to the will of your beloved Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. . . .

Be to me,

my most holy Lady,

adjutrix et consolatrix

contra insidias et laqueos

hostis antiqui

et omnium inimicorum meorum.

From your beloved Son . . .

request for me the grace to resist firmly

the temptations of the world, the flesh and the devil . . .

My most holy Lady,

I also beseech you to obtain for me

true obedience and true humility of heart

So that I may recognize myself truly

as a sinner--wretched and weak--

and powerless,

without the grace and help of my Creator

et sanctis precibus tuis . . .

Obtain for me as well,

O most sweet Lady,

true charity with which

from the depths of my heart

I may love your most holy Son, our Lord Jesus Christ,

and, after Him,

love you above all other things . . .

Fac etiam, O Regina caeli,

that ever in my heart

I may have fear and love alike

for your most sweet Son . . .

I pray also that, at the end of my life,

tu,

Mater unica

caeli porta,

et peccatorum advocata . . .

will protect me with your great piety and mercy . . .

Ac in benedicta Filii tui gloriosa passione

et in tua propria intercessione

spe accepta,

veniam de peccatis meis ab eo

mihi impetres;

When I die in your love and His love,

may you direct me

into the way of salvation and blessedness.

Amen. [22]



ENDNOTES


1. Saint Thomas Aquinas Meditations, For Every Day, selected by P.D. Mezard, O.P., adapted and trans. from the Latin by E. C. Mc Eniry, O.P., new and revised ed. (Columbus,Ohio: College Book Co., 1941). These selections are culled mostly from the Summa Theologiae, as well as from his Commentary on the Angelic Salutation, Namely the Hail Mary!, and his Commentaries on Sacred Scripture (See Preface).

2. Ibid., p. 416.

3. Ibid., p. 411.

4. Ibid., pp. 416-7.

5. St. Thomas Aquinas, The Three Greatest Prayers: Commentary on the Angelic Salutation, Namely the Hail Mary!, p. 33; St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, vol. 51, Our Lady, ed. and trans. with Appendices by T. R. Heath, O.P. (N.Y.: Blackfriars-McGraw Hill, 1969), Appendix 1, p. 101.

6. Saint Thomas Aquinas Meditations, p. 94.

7. St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, 3a. 27, 5, ad 1. See also St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, vol. 51, Our Lady, Appendix 1, p. 95.

8. St. Thomas Aquinas Meditations, p.103. See also St. Thomas Aquinas, The Three Greatest Prayers: Commentary on the Angelic Salutation, Namely the Hail Mary!, p. 33.

9. St. Thomas Aquinas, The Three Greatest Prayers: Commentaries on the Our Father, the Hail Mary, and the Apostles' Creed, trans. Laurence Shapcote, O.P. with intro. by Thomas Gilby, O.P. (Westminster, Maryland: The Newman Press, 1956), Commentary on the Angelic Salutation, Namely, the Hail Mary!, p. 32. See also Saint Thomas Aquinas Meditations, p.102.

10. St. Thomas Aquinas Meditations, p. 102.

11. Ibid.

12. Ibid. p. 386.

13. Ibid., p. 24.

14. Ibid., p.103.

15. St. Thomas Aquinas, The Three Greatest Prayers: Commentary on the Angelic Salutation, Namely, the Hail Mary!, p. 32.

16. Saint Thomas Aquinas Meditations, p.103.

17. St. Thomas Aquinas, The Three Greatest Prayers: Commentary on the Angelic Salutation, Namely, the Hail Mary!, p. 33.

18. St. Thomas Aquinas, Commentary on John, ed. James A. Weisheipl, O.P. (Albany, N.Y.: Magi Books, Inc., 1980), 1,10, n. 201, p. 98; and 2,1, n. 336, 338, and 343, pp. 151-152.

19. St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, 3a. 30, 1.

20. Ibid., 1a. 25, 6 ad 4. See also St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, vol. 51, Our Lady, Appendix 1, p. 95.

21. St. Thomas Aquinas, Commentary on John, 2,1, n. 344, p. 152. See also St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, vol. 51, Our Lady, Appendix 1, p. 94.

22. St. Thomas Aquinas, Devoutly I Adore Thee, trans. and ed. by Robert Anderson and Johann Moser (Manchester, New Hampshire: Sophia Institute Press, 1933), "Prayer of St. Thomas Aquinas to the Blessed Virgin", pp. 21-31.


This Version: 13th December 2002

Copyright ©; Sr. Thomas Mary McBride, O.P. 2002



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[Galilee63]

The Crucifixion
(Psalms 22:1-31; 69:1-36; Matthew 27:32-44; Mark 15:21-32; Luke 23:26-43)

16Then Pilate handed Jesus over to be crucified, and the soldiers took Him away. 17Carrying His own cross, He went out to The Place of the Skull, which in Aramaic is called Golgotha.

18There they crucified Him, and with Him two others, one on each side, with Jesus in the middle.

19Pilate also had a notice posted on the cross. It read:

Jesus of Nazareth,
the King of the Jews.


20Many of the Jews read this sign, because the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and it was written in Aramaic, Latin, and Greek. 21So the chief priests of the Jews said to Pilate, “Do not write, ‘The King of the Jews,’ but only that He said, ‘I am the King of the Jews.’”

22Pilate answered, “What I have written, I have written.”

23When the soldiers had crucified Jesus, they divided His garments into four parts, one for each soldier, with the tunic remaining. It was seamless, woven in one piece from the top to bottom. 24So they said to one another, “Let’s not tear it, but instead let us cast lots to see who will get it.” This was to fulfill the Scripture:

“They divided My garments among them,

and cast lots for My clothing.”a

So that is what the soldiers did.

25Near the cross of Jesus stood His mother and her sister, as well as Mary the wife of Clopas and Mary Magdalene. 26When Jesus saw His mother and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, “Woman, here is your son.” 27Then He said to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” So from that hour, this disciple took her into his home.

From that day on our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary resided with Holy Saint John knowing more in Her Most Holy Immaculate Heart about Gods Holy Commandments, His Teachings, Holy Ways extended through and from our Blessed Virgin Mother Marys Loving relationship with God our Heavenly Father in Him given God our Heavenly Divine Majesty chose His Favoured Daughter with Jesus and Holy Spirit from the beginning laying the Foundations of The Earth as Jesus said in His Holy Word and God our Heavenly Father said in His Old Testament declaring He is bringing His Messiah into the world.

God our Heavenly Father chose His Highly Favoured Daughter to be Holy Queen of Heaven and Earth long ago from the beginning because Holy Solomon writes about our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary in Gods Old Testament prior to Jesus His only Begotten Son descending to Earth with Holy Visions given by God to Holy Solomon and His Priests and Prophets of whom knew about our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary prior to Jesus being born of The Word Incarnate.

 

[Galilee63]

God our Heavenly Father delivered The Most Holy Rosary by Jesus Christ our Merciful Saviour Himself to Saint Dominic and many other Holy Saints of whom are now in Heaven with God of whom God Himself declared about in His Holy Word/Holy Scriptures to Holy Solomon in His Holy Words and Gifting him with His Holy Visions about our Holy Queen of Heaven our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary.

Whom did people think Holy Solomon was speaking about?
Or the many Holy Saints now in Heaven with God our Heavenly Father whom have received Jesus appearing to them speaking to them with our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary.

Hearts souls whom truly receive Jesus Holy Spirit God in to hearts would never ever degrade, disbelieve or turn other people hearts away from receiving Jesus and Gods Holy Favoured Daughter His Blessed Virgin Daughter and Holy Mother because to receive Jesus into hearts is through Holy Spirit God and our Blessed Virgin Mother through Jesus Himself, God our Heavenly Father Himself.

In Revelations one whom has prayed for The Holy Spirit to illuminate their hearts in Holy Discernment receiving Jesus into hearts after repentance of sins made to Jesus focussing on His Bitter Passion Sorrows Torments Agonies will discover that if in Holy Communion with Jesus Christ our Merciful Saviour they will be receiving our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary with Him as I do.

There is never Jesus without our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary with God our Heavenly Father in Holy Spirit.

The greatest most wonderful thing for souls one can do is when thanking Jesus Christ our Merciful Saviour for His Holy Blessings Gifts and Graces for having suffered the worst sufferings and sorrows is to thank our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary for Her Sorrows and Sufferings at the Foot of The Cross and for all of Holy Mother Marys Holy Graces bestowed upon mankind through God our Heavenly Father prior to passing over. Ingratitude insults and blasphemies about Jesus Christ our Merciful Saviour God Holy Spirit and our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary we are accountable for now and eternally in Gods wrath and Jesus explains this to His Holy Saints when appearing to them including many Catholics whom have received Jesus into hearts in Holy Communion with Him to date.

These tear at Jesus Blessed Holy Sacred Heart with so many Holy Messages delivered by Jesus Himself imploring people never to insult degrade or lead hearts astray away from Him and His Blessed Holy Sacred Mother of God.

This week around the world is our Blessed Virgin Mother Marys Holy Divine in God Holy Feast Day of Holy Mother Marys Assumption prior to being Crowned in Gods Glory with Her Holy Twelve Stars in Her Holy Crown in Her Blessed Holy Coronation in Heaven long ago and still occurring in Heaven as we speak when souls are returned to Jesus and saved through our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary with Jesus and Holy Spirit.

For every soul whom loved Jesus and His Blessed Virgin Mother Holy Queen of Love Mercy and Graces praying The Most Holy Rosary and offering up for Jesus God Holy Spirit and Holy Mother, for conversions salvation of people in the world for The Holy Souls in Purgatory for souls on their way to eternal damnation for the sick and dying for souls waiting in judgement, for souls dying in their Mothers Wombs for their salvation for World Peace for Governments staff prayed for to act wisely givingly in Jesus God Holy Spirit and many other Holy Causes prayed to Jesus God Holy Spirit and our Blessed Heavenly Mother Mary then when that soul passes over to be judged, if they have not recently received Holy Absolution from our Lord Jesus for sins, yet prayed to Him His Divine Mercy Novena as Jesus said to Saint Faustina and other Catholics, and The Most Holy Rosary or His Holy Wound Chaplet that soul will receive not the wrath of My Father but will receive Me standing between the dying soul and the just Hand of My Father.

Jesus said His Saints including Saint Faustina

"Souls perish in site of My Mercy"
"If the most hardened sinner would approach My Fount of Mercy He can be forgiven"
"Repent sins to Me from hearts open to Me in Trust"

and another 600 Holy Messages from Jesus God and Holy Spirit delivered to mankind through Holy Saint Faustina in the 1930s of which thereafter Jesus said when He has delivered His Mercy at that time He will be appearing to mankind with His Holy Glorious Wounds illuminated as a Bright Light over the whole earth and then a short period of days when the earth is in darkness and woe to those whom did not repent to Me Jesus warns. Jesus also warns that the earth will be in turmoil and confusion when He appears and it will be too late.

Our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary accompanied Jesus when appearing to Holy Saint Faustina many times with Holy warnings as Holy Mother Mary has done with Jesus to hundreds of Saints each Century.

The Divine Mercy is a Holy Enlightenment with Jesus God Holy Spirit our Blessed Holy Trinity delivering His Divine Mercy Chaplet and Novena to be prayed at 3pm daily and during Easter for soul salvation as Jesus promises that any soul whom has prayed His Divine Mercy Novena once during lives for themselves and the sick and dying He will save and forgive sins to avoid the wrath of God for non repentance of sins made to our Lord Jesus.

Jesus is our Divine Mercy Himself standing between the Just Hand of The Father our Heavenly Father when our souls pass over in Judgement by The Holy Spirit by God The Most High our Heavenly Divine Majesty.

 

[PeaceB]

I can't speak to the RCC as a whole

Agreed. Everything else you wrote is irrelevant.

That's commendable. I might add that it's usually recent converts who are still in the "Eureka. It's all so clear now!" mindset that are this way. Cradle Catholics normally are nothing like that.

Nonsense. And @JayW himself rarely has any substantive posts containing Scripture or his interpretation of it. He spends 90% of his time making smug back-handed insults and making up stories about how he went to Mass and the mean priests took the Bibles out of the pews and deleted verses from the readings in order to deceive and brainwash the peoples, and other ridiculous anecdotal evidence.

 

[kepha31]

That's right. And until some verse is turned up that shows the opposite, we are at a standstill.

I listed about 35 verses supporting purgatory in post #434. That isn't enough?
Sola scriptura has none whatsoever.

Where are your "several clear NT scriptures" for the notion that all doctrines have to be established by "several clear NT scriptures"?

Where does that idea come from in the first place? Traditions of men and not Holy Scripture?

Protestants build their entire rule of faith and theology upon sola Scriptura (the notion that the only infallible authority is Scripture, and in practice, that every doctrine needs explicit biblical proof to be believed at all), yet this idea is never found in Scripture anywhere (it was basically invented by Luther out of thin air, under pressure in a debate). So why the irrational double standard? You can base that false tradition of men on nothing whatever in Scripture, yet demand all kinds of explicit biblical proofs for every Marian doctrine, (or purgatory) as if that is necessary, when there is plenty about Mary (or purgatory) in Scripture: just not enough to your arbitrary taste. And what is there many Protestants don't or can''t see, under the principle of "no man is so blind as he who will not see."
https://web.archive.org/web/2015090...2011/08/dialogue-with-two-protestants-on.html

 

[kepha31]

Agreed. Everything else you wrote is irrelevant.
Nonsense. And @JayW himself rarely has any substantive posts containing Scripture or his interpretation of it. He spends 90% of his time making smug back-handed insults and making up stories about how he went to Mass and the mean priests took the Bibles out of the pews and deleted verses from the readings in order to deceive and brainwash the peoples, and other ridiculous anecdotal evidence.

I have him resting peacefully in my ICU. (Ignore Care Unit)

 

[Galilee63]

HRDJ,

These are some of our Lords Holy Prayers delivered by Jesus God Holy Spirit to pray to our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary to Jesus through Holy Mother Mary in Holy Spirit to God

"And in the sixth month, the Angel Gabriel was sent from god into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth. To a Virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph of the house of David; and the Virgin's name was Mary. And the Angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women. Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be.

"And the Angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for, for thou hast found grace with God. And behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call His name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of David His father; and He shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. And of His kingdom there shall be no end.

"And Mary said to the Angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man? And the Angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God ... And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word. And the Angel departed from her."


28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

God our Heavenly Father as He spoke to Holy Ezra in the early days, requested of Holy Ezra in Gods Holy Book of Esdras 1 and 2 that He/God The Most High appoints His Priests and Prophets to write His Holy Word from Him in His Presence on the Tablets that God gave to Holy Moses and Holy Ezra delivering His Holy Word to Ezra with the other appointed Priests of Gods receiving only some of Gods Holy Word with 144 HOly Books withheld from the rest of his Priests with only Ezra receiving them among the wise God had appointed.

So too God our Heavenly Father appointed His Blessed Virgin Mother Mary through Jesus Christ our Merciful Saviour long before our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary was born Herself to be Holy Mother Of God HOly Favoured Daughter and Holy Queen of Mercy and Holy Queen of Heaven and Earth. Our Heavenly Mother.

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

Here, God our Heavenly Father, Holy Spirit inspired our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary to say these words from her heart from God The Most High through our Holy Mother Mary.

"Behold The Handmaid of The Lord"

Hail Holy Queen Mother Of Mercy
Hail our life our sweetness and our hope
To Thee do we cry poor banished Children of Eve
To Thee do we send up our signs mourning and weeping in the Valley of tears
turn then O Most Gracious Advocate Thine Eyes of Mercy towards us and after this our exile show unto us Thy Blessed Fruit of Thy Womb Jesus
O Clement O Loving O Sweet Virgin Mary
pray for us O Holy Mother of God
that we may be made worthy of the Promises of Christ Amen.

Hail Mary full of Grace,
The Lord is with Thee
Blessed art Thou among women and Blessed is The Fruit of Thy Womb Jesus
Holy Mary Mother of God
pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death Amen.

The Holy Angelus from God our Heavenly Father to mankind to pray at morning, midday and evening


V. The Angel of the Lord declared unto Mary.

R. And she conceived of the Holy Spirit.

Hail Mary, full of grace,
The Lord is with Thee;
Blessed art thou among women,
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
Pray for us sinners,
Now and at the hour of our death. Amen

V. Behold the handmaid of the Lord.

R. Be it done unto me according to thy word.


Hail Mary, full of grace,
The Lord is with Thee;
Blessed art thou among women,
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
Pray for us sinners,
Now and at the hour of our death. Amen


V. And the Word was made Flesh.

R. And dwelt among us.


Hail Mary, full of grace,
The Lord is with Thee;
Blessed art thou among women,
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
Pray for us sinners,
Now and at the hour of our death. Amen

V. Pray for us, O holy Mother of God.

R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ

 

[JacksBratt]

I listed about 35 verses supporting purgatory in post #434. That isn't enough?
l

Can you double check the post number? Post 434 isn't even your post.

 

[JacksBratt]

It is not only belief for many it is our relationship with and in Jesus God Holy Spirit and our Blessed Heavenly Mother Mary of Whom today we celebrate Holy Mother Mary's Holy Assumption

Assumed Body and Soul into Heaven

If you receive Jesus God and Holy Spirit into your heart as opposed to mind you would know all of these things in your heart from and through Jesus Holy Spirit God in God our Heavenly Fathers Holy Wisdom as apposed to just the earthly mind of which belongs to satan sorry and His temptations

One is either with Jesus or against Him and that includes loving His Holy Blessed Mother our real Heavenly Mother of God Holy Queen of Heaven and Earth Holy Mother of Love Mercy and Holy Graces of which come From God our Holy Divine Majesty Himself

And souls have seen this in life death situations including many non Catholics shown Heaven Purgatory and Hell given another opportunity by our Lord Jesus through our Blessedness Virgin Mother whom implores and intercedes with Jesus God and Holy Spirit for souls and their salvation

Until one receives Jesus into hearts as opposed to minds people will continue throughout satans temptations and fear and opposition to our Blessed Heavenly Holy Queen of Heaven and Earth and Holy Queen of Her Catholic Church Jesus Gods Holy Catholic Church His Church His Temple His Sacred Heart and His Priests and Religious with our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary in Holy Spirit God continue to steer hearts souls away from Her because satan claims more souls by not having hearts souls receive Gods Blessed Holy Sacraments all of them of which are Jesus Holy Spirit God Himself in His Holy Sacred Real Flesh and Blood and Real Holy Absolution by Jesus Himself Manifested and Present in every one of His Catholic Churches in His Holy Sacred Tabernacle at His Altars in His Holy Confessionals and Jesus explains this to Saint Marie Chambon St Faustina in His Holy Word to His Disciples and mankind

Jesus is from Gods Holy Order of Saint Father Melchizedek in Gods Holy Hebrew Lineage now Catholic Term used for Hebrew Lineage with all Priests continuing down the line appointed by God our Heavenly Father with all Saints of Gods His Nuns Sisters and Priests and Popes having received Jesus God Holy Spirit into hearts as opposed to minds with Jesus appearing to thousands of them and leaving Gods Holy Word writings with them including that repentance of sins made To Jesus in remorse sorrow for sins is necessary essential for salvation and receiving Him from hearts in Holy Communion

No soul unclean can ever enter Heaven The kingdom of Gods

Sorry, but I find your posts way out there. I almost cannot take you seriously.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I think I am going to ask for scripture to back this one up.

Act 1:14
These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

Act 2:1-3

And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

Just reading through the replies.

Forgive me...

 

[JacksBratt]

I listed about 35 verses supporting purgatory in post #434. That isn't enough?
Sola scriptura has none whatsoever.

Where are your "several clear NT scriptures" for the notion that all doctrines have to be established by "several clear NT scriptures"?

Where does that idea come from in the first place? Traditions of men and not Holy Scripture?

Protestants build their entire rule of faith and theology upon sola Scriptura (the notion that the only infallible authority is Scripture, and in practice, that every doctrine needs explicit biblical proof to be believed at all), yet this idea is never found in Scripture anywhere (it was basically invented by Luther out of thin air, under pressure in a debate). So why the irrational double standard? You can base that false tradition of men on nothing whatever in Scripture, yet demand all kinds of explicit biblical proofs for every Marian doctrine, (or purgatory) as if that is necessary, when there is plenty about Mary (or purgatory) in Scripture: just not enough to your arbitrary taste. And what is there many Protestants don't or can''t see, under the principle of "no man is so blind as he who will not see."
https://web.archive.org/web/2015090...2011/08/dialogue-with-two-protestants-on.html

As for myself, the KJV is all of the scripture in the canonized collection. There are all kinds of other reference books and history books but if their content contradicts the canonized books, it is tossed.

If someone accuses me of being "sola Scriputra" I consider it a complement.....not the insult it is intended to be.

I stand on the word of God and it is generally accepted as the books included in the KJV and other versions of the same books.

As soon as you start adding this text and that text you are on a slippery slope to all kinds of non biblical beliefs and theology.

You cannot go wrong taking the books of the KJV as the final word in Gods intended message to His creation.