Praying to Mary - A Biblical Defense

[Thursday]

I've never understood how it's okay to worship a fellow human being who has been physically dead and gone from this life for 2,000 years.

I've also never understood how anyone thinks she can hear all the thousands of prayers said to her daily. Is she omniscient? Omnipresent?

As you have been told repeatedly and shown from the Catechism, Catholics worship God alone. Why do you insist on lying about Catholics?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The False Veneration of Mary as being a Co-Redeemer with Christ:

It is stated by Catholic.org, I quote: “Mary uniquely participated in the acquisition of the graces of Redemption by Jesus Christ (objective redemption) and, therefore, the Mother of Jesus, above all creatures, fittingly participates in the distribution of these graces of Redemption to the human family (theologically called "subjective redemption"). By distributing sanctifying grace, Mary is able to fulfill her role as Spiritual Mother, since she spiritually nourishes the faithful of Christ's body in the order of grace. Mary's God-given ability to distribute the graces of Redemption by her intercession is an essential element and full flowering of her role as Spiritual Mother. For true motherhood goes beyond the birthing of children to include their nourishing, growth, and proper formation.”


Biblical Case Against Mary as Co-redemptrix:

Although Mary, along with other followers of Jesus such as the apostle John (Mark 15:40; John 19:34-35), were grieved and suffered as Jesus was crucified for the sins of God’s people, Mary’s suffering did not play a saving role in the redemption contrary to Rome’s blasphemous claims. According to Holy Scripture “Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law” (Galatians 3:13) not Mary. 1 Peter 3:18 says “For Christ also suffered once for sins” (1 Peter 3:18), not Mary. Hebrews 13:12 says “Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood” (Hebrews 13:12), not Mary. Over and over God’s word says Jesus redeemed man and suffered for sins. Not once is it said that Mary participated in man’s redemption in a saving way. This idea detracts from the glory and honor Jesus alone deserves.

Moreover, it is not possible since only Jesus qualified to suffer and die for man’s sins since only Jesus’ sufferings could satisfy God the Father’s justice and wrath (Isaiah 53:3-5, 10; Romans 3:25). Jesus alone is the spotless lamb who qualified for redeeming man and suffering for him (Isaiah 53:7, 10; John 1:29; 1 Corinthian 5:7). In fact 1 Peter 1:18-19 affirms that only Jesus’ blood could redeem man, not Mary’s sufferings: “18knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, 19but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot” (1 Peter 1:18-19). Mary did not have precious blood like a lamb without blemish or spot.

Moreover, blood was required for the redemption (Hebrews 9:22). Jesus spilled his blood and thus redeemed man. Mary did not spill hers. Hence, she did not participate in the redemption a saving way with her suffering at the time of Jesus' crucifixion since the necessary component required for such a redemption was lacking on her part.

Lastly, the language Rome uses in regards to Mary allegedly “offering” up Jesus at the time of the crucifixion or “presenting Him” at the time of the sacrifice (Vatican II, Lumen Gentium, 58, The Documents of Vatican II, ed. Walter M. Abbot, [The America Press, 1966], pp. 89-90; Leo XIII, Jucunda Semper, 1894; The HarperCollins Encyclopedia of Catholicism, “Coredemptrix,” ed. Richard P. McBrien, [HarperCollins Publishers, Inc., 1995], p. 369) gives her glory which only Jesus, the new covenant high priest, deserves. Jesus offered Himself up to the Father as a sacrifice since he is the high priest, not Mary. Hebrews 10:11-12 demonstrates this: “11And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God” (Hebrews 10:11-12). In summation, it is very clear the Holy Scripture condemns Rome’s teaching of Mary being Co-redemptrix. Those who hold to such a teaching or belong to such an institution which promotes it show themselves to not understand the work of Christ on the cross.


Source:
Reformed Apologetics Ministries: Mary is not Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix of all Graces, and Advocate


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[amariselle]

As you have been told repeatedly and shown from the Catechism, Catholics worship God alone. Why do you insist on lying about Catholics?

Do Catholics pray to Mary and the Saints?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Do Catholics pray to Mary and the Saints?

All catholics do... not just Rome.
Pray means ask.
Worship is for the Trinity alone.

Forgive me...

 

[amariselle]

All catholics do... not just Rome.
Pray means ask.
Worship is for the Trinity alone.

Forgive me...

The content of many of those prayers is in fact worship.

For example, when one "prays" to Mary and tells her that they are willingly "consecrating" themselves to her, body, heart and soul and everything they own, and that they are putting their salvation in her hands, that is indeed worship.

Heretical and blasphemous actually. That praise, glory and honour belongs to the Triune God alone, not to anyone our anything else.

 

[Thursday]

Do Catholics pray to Mary and the Saints?

Absolutely. What does pray mean?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The content of many of those prayers is in fact worship.

For example, when one "prays" to Mary and tells her that they are willingly "consecrating" themselves to her, body, heart and soul and everything they own, and that they are putting their salvation in her hands, that is indeed worship.

Heretical and blasphemous actually. That praise, glory and honour belongs to the Triune God alone, not to anyone our anything else.

Your quoting only what you are finding in RCC.

Forgive me...

 

[Thursday]

The content of many of those prayers is in fact worship.

For example, when one "prays" to Mary and tells her that they are willingly "consecrating" themselves to her, body, heart and soul and everything they own, and that they are putting their salvation in her hands, that is indeed worship.

Heretical and blasphemous actually. That praise, glory and honour belongs to the Triune God alone, not to anyone our anything else.

One more time, since you must have missed it to keep repeating such false assumptions and accusations:

970 "Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."513 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."514

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

One other thing that I'll add. (For your bashing pleasure.)

All catholics believe that Christ came and took Mary physically to heaven after her burial.

Forgive me...

 

[Goatee]

Yes indeed there is clear evidence for this. The plain written words of God tell us so.



A later interpretation and should not be confused with Theotokos.


Debatable. As John received that mission personally.



Glad you mentioned this. I guess the early church 'forgot' a lot about Marian devotion as it was absent for the first 500 years of the church.

I will use only Catholic sources:

From then Cardinal Ratzinger (better known to all as Benedict XVI):

Before Mary's bodily Assumption into heaven was defined, all theological faculties in the world were consulted for their opinion. Our teachers' answer was emphatically negative . What here became evident was the one-sidedness, not only of the historical, but of the historicist method in theology. “Tradition” was identified with what could be proved on the basis of texts. Altaner , the patrologist from Wurzburg…had proven in a scientifically persuasive manner that the doctrine of Mary’s bodily Assumption into heaven was unknown before the 5C ; this doctrine, therefore, he argued, could not belong to the “apostolic tradition. And this was his conclusion, which my teachers at Munich shared .

This argument is compelling if you understand “tradition” strictly as the handing down of fixed formulas and texts…But if you conceive of “tradition” as the living process whereby the Holy Spirit introduces us to the fullness of truth and teaches us how to understand what previously we could still not grasp (cf. Jn 16:12-13), then subsequent “remembering” (cf. Jn 16:4, for instance) can come to recognize what it has not caught sight of previously and was already handed down [invisibly, without evidence] in the original Word,” — J. Ratzinger, Milestones (Ignatius, n.d.), 58-59.

Basically Ratzinger is telling us the Church forgot this most important doctrine but remembered it much later. Even though, as he admits, there was no historical evidence prior to the 5th Century AD. Which he does not try to defend from a position of Holy Scriptures at all.

Therefore, your argument among other RCs here is the same as Karl Keating:

"The mere fact that the Church teaches the doctrine of the Assumption as definitely true is a guarantee that it is true.” — Karl Keating, Catholicism and Fundamentalism (San Francisco: Ignatius, 1988), p. 275.

Which is a circular argument.

However, not surprising as indicated here as well:

"It follows that the Church is essentially an unequal society, that is, a society comprising two categories of per sons, the Pastors and the flock...the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors" (Vehementer Nos, an Encyclical of Pope Pius X, 1906)

God works in mysterious ways!

 

[Goatee]

Can you define Sola Scriptura? I don't think you know what it means.

Can you find those words in the Bible!?

 

[amariselle]

Your quoting only what you are finding in RCC.

Forgive me...

I'm quoting actual Catholic prayers said to Mary. They are available for us all to read and study, and so we should if we want to know what is actually said.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I'm quoting actual Catholic prayers said to Mary. They are available for us all to read and study, and so we should if we want to know what is actually said.

I am not disagreeing that some of these go overboard, but I also unerstand their origin.

Forgive me...

 

[amariselle]

One other thing that I'll add. (For your bashing pleasure.)

All catholics believe that Christ came and took Mary physically to heaven after her burial.

Forgive me...

Yes they do, though that is nowhere found in Scripture and there is no evidence whatsoever that the early Church believed such a thing.

That doctrine was added much much later by the Catholic Church.

 

[Goatee]

One other thing that I'll add. (For your bashing pleasure.)

All catholics believe that Christ came and took Mary physically to heaven after her burial.

Forgive me...

Does it say she was buried? I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

 

[amariselle]

I am not disagreeing that some of these go overboard, but I also unerstand their origin.

Forgive me...

As do I. But regardless, it is heretical to worship anyone but the Triune God. Our salvation is in His hands alone, not Mary's.

 

[Goatee]

But did you look at the images? A picture sometimes says a thousand words.


...

Never judge a book by its cover too!

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Our salvation is in His hands alone, not Mary's.

Nobody here doubts that.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

That doctrine was added much much later by the Catholic Church.

What year would you say?

Forgive me...

 

[Goatee]

As do I. But regardless, it is heretical to worship anyone but the Triune God. Our salvation is in His hands alone, not Mary's.

Agreed. Mary is there to intercede for us. Salvation comes through Our Lord.