Bad theology springs from bible selectivity.

sdowney717

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An example of bad theology springing from selective bible reading follows:
Bad theology:
Every single individual human being has sinned (EXCLUDING original sin).​
Selective bible reading:
as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong; no one does good, not even one." "Their throat is an open grave, they use their tongues to deceive." "The venom of asps is under their lips." "Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness." "Their feet are swift to shed blood, in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they do not know." "There is no fear of God before their eyes." Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For no human being will be justified in his sight by works of the law, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:10-20​
Antidote to selective bible reading:
Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
2 Corinthians 5:17-21

By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was attested as having pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
Hebrews 11:5-6

There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God, and turned away from evil.
Job 1:1
...
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. The LORD said to Satan, "Whence have you come?" Satan answered the LORD, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it." And the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?" Then Satan answered the LORD, "Does Job fear God for nought? Hast thou not put a hedge about him and his house and all that he has, on every side? Thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. But put forth thy hand now, and touch all that he has, and he will curse thee to thy face." And the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power; only upon himself do not put forth your hand." So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
Job 1:6-12​
Bad theology can be countered but first it must be recognised for what it is and then the antidote can be administered. Jesus knew no sin so it is both bad theology and bad hermeneutics to interpret the passage from Romans (which quotes a psalm) as teaching that every single individual who has ever lived has sinned. It ought to be noted that original sin does in fact implicate all the natural children of Eve and Adam but the Virgin birth of Jesus Christ excludes him from the category of "natural children of Eve and Adam" inasmuch as his Father is God. And the idea that all (excluding Christ) are implicated in original sin does not imply that all have committed sins themselves. Infants who die in infancy or who die before birth have committed no sins even though original sin implicates them. And since God himself testifies that Job was blameless & upright (more accurately "perfect and upright") it appears that the only one who accuses Job of sin is Satan. Yet some who adhere to bad theology follow the thinking of Satan and accuse Job of sin on the basis of the passage in the psalms that is quoted in Romans. Enoch is also accused of sin yet God says he was pleased with Enoch and "took him". "Took him" implying that God received Enoch into heaven without Enoch ever dying. What sins can Enoch be accused of if God himself received him?

Other examples of Bad Theology springing from selective reading of scripture can easily be cited. The example given above is one that ought to be obvious to any who read scripture more fully and with their wits and eyes fully operative.
You say first off
'Bad theology:

Every single individual human being has sinned (EXCLUDING original sin).'
********************************

???
All have sinned, that is the truth, except Jesus Christ, but that scripture is about people not God.

God is soveriegn, God has confined all under sin, the whole world is under sin.
Galatians 3:22
But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
The above verse blows you right out of the water, but I wonder if you can take it.
You are in serious error, as are all those who applauded your post.
Your bad theology is corrected by scripture, but I doubt you will change your mind. People are hardened into their bad theology, because they do not understand and believe the truth.

Romans 3
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

All sin, but not all obtain mercy to be saved.​
 
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sdowney717

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Here is another good 'proof text' for the OP.

Romans 4:7-9New King James Version (NKJV)

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”


God decides to whom He will impute to them their sin and God decides who not to impute to them their sin.
Some obtain mercy, to them their sin is not imputed, others, well they just die in their sins. This is according to God's sovereign purpose and will.

Example from Peter
7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”

8 and

“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.


So why did some believe? They obtained mercy, they were chosen to be His people, they were elected.
God called them out of darkness into the light, God brought them forth, they did not bring themselves out of the darkness into the light, Christ said men's deeds are evil and they will not come to the light lest they be exposed.

So why did some stumble over Christ? Why did Christ offend them?
They were appointed by God to stumble. They were appointed by God to be disobedient.


While God's elect were appointed by God to be obedient to Christ and sprinkled with His blood.

Greeting to the Elect Pilgrims
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

Grace to you and peace be multiplied.


I honestly think people are hardened when they demonstrate over and over that they can not understand spiritual things.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Bad theology, is head theology of the little grey cells. Purely an academic exercise, devoid of spiritual discernment. Theology built solely according to the letter.
Often such theology fails to grasp the undercurrent of everything written in the letter.
Gods great love, mercy and compassion to those who are his children:
I trust in God's unfailing love forever and ever
Psalms52:8

Kinda difficult to love God with all your mind if you don't engage your mind.
 
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disciple1

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Here is another good 'proof text' for the OP.

Romans 4:7-9New King James Version (NKJV)

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”


God decides to whom He will impute to them their sin and God decides who not to impute to them their sin.
Some obtain mercy, to them their sin is not imputed, others, well they just die in their sins. This is according to God's sovereign purpose and will.

Example from Peter
7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”

8 and

“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.


So why did some believe? They obtained mercy, they were chosen to be His people, they were elected.
God called them out of darkness into the light, God brought them forth, they did not bring themselves out of the darkness into the light, Christ said men's deeds are evil and they will not come to the light lest they be exposed.

So why did some stumble over Christ? Why did Christ offend them?
They were appointed by God to stumble. They were appointed by God to be disobedient.


While God's elect were appointed by God to be obedient to Christ and sprinkled with His blood.

Greeting to the Elect Pilgrims
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

Grace to you and peace be multiplied.


I honestly think people are hardened when they demonstrate over and over that they can not understand spiritual things.
Here is another good 'proof text' for the OP.

Romans 4:7-9New King James Version (NKJV)

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”


God decides to whom He will impute to them their sin and God decides who not to impute to them their sin.
Some obtain mercy, to them their sin is not imputed, others, well they just die in their sins. This is according to God's sovereign purpose and will.

Example from Peter
7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”

8 and

“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.


So why did some believe? They obtained mercy, they were chosen to be His people, they were elected.
God called them out of darkness into the light, God brought them forth, they did not bring themselves out of the darkness into the light, Christ said men's deeds are evil and they will not come to the light lest they be exposed.

So why did some stumble over Christ? Why did Christ offend them?
They were appointed by God to stumble. They were appointed by God to be disobedient.


While God's elect were appointed by God to be obedient to Christ and sprinkled with His blood.

Greeting to the Elect Pilgrims
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

Grace to you and peace be multiplied.


I honestly think people are hardened when they demonstrate over and over that they can not understand spiritual things.
well they just die in their sins
The law introduced 2000 years later doesn't do away with the promise either.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 17
What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.
 
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GingerBeer

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Job later sinned at the end of the book of Job. That is why he abhored himself and he repented in dust and ashes.
Job repented his uninformed words but he repented no sins and God himself testifies that Job spoke what was right about God. You've equated "repent" with "he sinned and hence needed to repent" and that is an invalid equation.
 
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Job repented his uninformed words but he repented no sins and God himself testifies that Job spoke what was right about God. You've equated "repent" with "he sinned and hence needed to repent" and that is an invalid equation.

I disagree. Repentance is only in need if one is transgressed Gods will or law in some way. Repentance has always been tied to forgiveness in regards to sin of some kind. Not all sin is the same. There are degrees of sin. But if someone feels the need to repent, it is usually a serious of enough of a kind of sin they need to be forgiven of with God. For why would one want to repent in the first place if they did nothing wrong?

Elihu says this of Job (Which was true).

"Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vain; he multiplieth words without knowledge." (Job 35:16).

God said of Job, ""Who is this who keeps darkening my counsel without knowing what he's talking about?" (Job 38:2) (ISV).

"And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell." (James 3:6).

Also, we learn the heart of Job's sin here:

1 "So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.
2 Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God." (Job 32:1-2).

"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
(Proverbs 14:12).

Also, a Christian on another forum said this of Job (and it makes sense):

We know that Job's affliction was not because he sinned. But Job's affliction brought forth the corruption and depravity of his heart. Pain revealed his true character.

In one sense his affliction proved his integrity, in that he did not serve God solely for personal gain, as Satan had suggested (in chapters 1 and 2), nor did he curse God.

But, on the other hand, his complaints in the midst of suffering showed his inner-corruption.

He did not curse God, yet he cursed his birth, he cursed his day, he cursed his three counsellors, he cursed his festering sores, he even cursed the ash-heap he was sitting upon.

He says God is pursuing him him like a mad hunter bent on destroying him, yet he has no idea why? He blattantly challenges God to come down and explain what's going on, and then complains when God doesn't show-up.

It is only after God does reveal Himself in chapters 38-41 (God's Science Quiz: Where were You when I made the earth? What are its measurements? and etc...), that Job repents.

I'm persuaded that the sin of which Job repents is his demanding that God answer Him, as though God were some how accountable to him. The sin of the clay demanding of the potter, "Why have you made me this way?" (Romans 9:20).

This is a sin, which common experience shows us that we all share. We dare question God's providential dealings when things don't go to our liking. In essence God's rebuke of Job in chapters 38-41 is well summarized by Paul's answer to the questioning lump of clay in Romans 9. "But who are you, O man, to answer back to God?"

By: Presbyterian Deacon.

In other words, the clay (Job) questioned the Potter (the Lord), and then God came down in whilrl wind and spoke of his creation to Job. Do you get it? In the end: Job was in the wrong for not only speaking words without knowledge but Job (the clay) was in the wrong for trying to make demands like the Potter (God) who made many wonderous things that Job could not totally understand.


Source:
Where does Job Sin?
 
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Here is another good 'proof text' for the OP.

Romans 4:7-9New King James Version (NKJV)

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”


God decides to whom He will impute to them their sin and God decides who not to impute to them their sin.
Some obtain mercy, to them their sin is not imputed, others, well they just die in their sins. This is according to God's sovereign purpose and will.

Example from Peter
7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”

8 and

“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.


So why did some believe? They obtained mercy, they were chosen to be His people, they were elected.
God called them out of darkness into the light, God brought them forth, they did not bring themselves out of the darkness into the light, Christ said men's deeds are evil and they will not come to the light lest they be exposed.

So why did some stumble over Christ? Why did Christ offend them?
They were appointed by God to stumble. They were appointed by God to be disobedient.


While God's elect were appointed by God to be obedient to Christ and sprinkled with His blood.

Greeting to the Elect Pilgrims
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

Grace to you and peace be multiplied.


I honestly think people are hardened when they demonstrate over and over that they can not understand spiritual things.

Are you saying God makes some people to be a certain way in regards to their place in eternity?
Meaning, do you believe God chooses to save some people and chooses not save others despite man's free will? If so, Jesus said the following words (which refutes this kind of silly thinking)...

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God's messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me" (Matthew 23:37) (NLT).


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Job repented his uninformed words but he repented no sins and God himself testifies that Job spoke what was right about God. You've equated "repent" with "he sinned and hence needed to repent" and that is an invalid equation.

Also, Lucifer was perfect in his ways until iniquity was found within him (Ezekiel 28:15). So the idea that if one is perfect at one point in time does not guarantee that they will not faulter or sin later. We still have free will.


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I guess God should have checked with you before he wrote the bible.

Smart remarks does not mean that you are right in any way. You have kept throwing new verses at me instead of explaining the ones I already presented to you. I explain with God's Word, and then you throw new verses at me (hoping that will silence me). I explain the verses using the context and then you end with a smart remark. Is this how you convince people of the truth of God's Word?

In other words, prove your case using the context. Explain your side of what those verses mean instead of making generalized statements about how you are right about the Bible and I am wrong.


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GingerBeer

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I disagree. Repentance is only in need if one is transgressed Gods will or law in some way.
The scriptures tell us that God repented.
Genesis 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Exodus 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.​
It cannot be true that "Repentance is only in need if one is transgressed Gods will or law in some way." if God repents.
 
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stuart lawrence

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Kinda difficult to love God with all your mind if you don't engage your mind.
How is head theology of the little grey cells, that is purely an academic exercise an example of loving God? The people who were responsible for Christ being crucified had such theology. Such an academic exercise is not being done out of love for God, but rather because the individual simply revels in studying theology.
And where does this academic exercise lead at times? People claim Individuals, apart from Christ lived a totally sinless life. They base this on an academic study of reading a small mount of verses of the literal letter.
Thus academic study does not entail pausing, and considering what it would mean to live a totally sinless life:
You cannot have even one impure thought since you reach puberty.
You can never look at a woman with lust in your eye.
You must ceaselessly, without slip love all those you come unto contact with, including those who may malign, persecute, or hate you.
You must not have an unkind thought, or say an unkind word to anyone your whole life.
You would have to be a freak of nature, to put it mildly to be such a person.
However, pure theological reasoning of the mind built on small samples of the literal letter doesn't consider such things.

For clarification. Jesus harsh words of the Pharisees were due to him having great love and compassion for those they crushed whilst preaching what they did not practice
 
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The scriptures tell us that God repented.
Genesis 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Exodus 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.​
It cannot be true that "Repentance is only in need if one is transgressed Gods will or law in some way." if God repents.

Not the same thing. Does it say in Genesis that God repented in dust and ashes? No. Repenting in ashes was always associated with repenting of sin. Besides, the Scriptures tell us in several places what Job's sins were towards the end of the book of Job. Yes, Job was perfect and upright during the time God said such a thing to the devil, but later, Job faultered (not in the way that the devil suggested). Job kept the faith and was not serving God for mere gain, but Job sinned by trying to be like God by thinking He knew better than God. Job also spoke words without knowledge. Job spoke in vanity against God's counsel. We cannot as believers act like we know better than God. These were Job's sin towards the end of his struggle. Job cracked under the pressure of His test but yet, he still remained faithful to God because he never cursed God and he still believed he was his redeemer. To not see this in the book of Job is to fall into the same trap of sin that Job did.


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GingerBeer

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Not the same thing. Does it say in Genesis that God repented in dust and ashes? No.
Does scripture say that Enoch repented in dust and ashes? No!What is your point? It looks like your posts are written to avoid what scripture says.

God said that Job was perfect and upright. God was pleased with Enoch and took him. Jesus knew no sin. Unborn infants and infants dying in infancy have done nothing either good or bad. Those are the salient passages put forward as counter examples to the bad theology proposition that each and every individual human being sins.
 
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Does scripture say that Enoch repented in dust and ashes?

I am actually against "Eternal Security" and or a "Sin and still be Saved Gospel." I believe it is possible for believers to live perfect and upright before God, too (See my defense of this truth in God's Word here). However, I have learned that being perfect before God at one point in one's life does not guarantee that one will not sin again. The record of the devil and Job proves this point.

Did Enoch never sin? The Scriptures do not say. So we cannot assume for or against that he sinned or not. I do believe Enoch lived righteously unlike any other man besides Jesus. It was Enoch's righteous living whereby the Lord took him without him seeing death.

You said:
It looks like your posts are written to avoid what scripture says.

Well, you did not address the verses I brought up. Do you mind telling me which verses you think I ignored? It is possible I missed them and I would be happy to explain them.

You said:
God said that Job was perfect and upright.

Yes. This is 100% true. Job was living righteous, perfect, and upright before God at the time God declared this truth to the devil. But even Scripture says that Lucifer was perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him. The same is true with Job. Except Job did not outright rebel against God but he still sinned by trying to act like he knew more than God and for demanding that God explain Himself.

You said:
God was pleased with Enoch and took him.

I do not disagree. But Enoch's life was not exactly like Job's life. There is no mention in Scripture that Job was also translated so as to not see death.

You said:
Jesus knew no sin.

I agree. But this was because he was born of a virgin and because He was God incarnate.

You said:
Unborn infants and infants dying in infancy have done nothing either good or bad.

I agree. They are in God's Kingdom if they were to die. I use this argument all the time to refute those who wrongfully believe that sin does not separate a believer from God (salvation wise). For when a baby grows up, they fall into sin and they need a Savior.

Then there is also the 144,000 in Revelation 14:3-5, too. They were found without fault before the throne of God. This is not some kind of OSAS righteousness that is all in one's head but this is in regards to righteous living. So yes, I believe it is possible to live righteously.

You said:
Those are the salient passages put forward as counter examples to the bad theology proposition that each and every individual human being sins.

I believe the only adult person who has never sinned is Jesus. Every other adult person and their life is a mystery as to whether or not they have sinned. But I lean towards the idea that everyone (besides Jesus and babies) have sinned at some point in their life.


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sdowney717

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Does scripture say that Enoch repented in dust and ashes? No!What is your point? It looks like your posts are written to avoid what scripture says.

God said that Job was perfect and upright. God was pleased with Enoch and took him. Jesus knew no sin. Unborn infants and infants dying in infancy have done nothing either good or bad. Those are the salient passages put forward as counter examples to the bad theology proposition that each and every individual human being sins.
You miss the word 'mercy' that is in so many scriptures. God forgives some men their sins, to demonstrate His mercy.
All mankind sin and you don't believe God has confined all mankind under sin, you think some men are sinless. Must mean you think people are basically at their nature, good too?
 
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sdowney717

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Apr 20, 2013
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Did Job sin?
Did Job curse the day of his birth? YES

Job 3 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 After this Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth.

2 And Job spoke, and said:

3 “May the day perish on which I was born,
And the night in which it was said,
‘A male child is conceived.’

4 May that day be darkness;
May God above not seek it,
Nor the light shine upon it.
5 May darkness and the shadow of death claim it;
May a cloud settle on it;
etc...

As opposed to praising God for the day which He had made.
Psalm 118:24
This is the day the Lord has made;
We will rejoice and be glad in it.

Did Job admit he had transgression and iniquity? He is not even sure himself. Job is in severe distress.
Job did though curse what God had done in creating that day on which he was born. And that is a sin.
If you curse what God has made or done, that is a sin.

Job 7
20 Have I sinned?
What have I done to You, O watcher of men?
Why have You set me as Your target,
So that I am a burden to myself?
21 Why then do You not pardon my transgression,
And take away my iniquity?

For now I will lie down in the dust,
And You will seek me diligently,
But I will no longer be.
 
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