Planet Earth - How Old?

CoolDude68

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Science talks about how things are "millions and billions" of years old. Others in more of the religious sector say that Earth is more like a few thousands of years old. Is there proof in scripture of this or any mention?
 
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Halbhh

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Scripture doesn't say if time passed between the days of creation in Genesis chapter 1. Scripture also does not say what time passed during verse 1 during the creation of the Universe, before Earth's first day.

It doesn't say I think because that information would then merely prove all, without any need for any faith at all.

God actually wants a more significant thing from us -- real faith, instead of merely and only observation alone. If the Bible said the Earth was 4.55 bn years old, and eventually we found proof in science, then there would be no place for faith, because faith is believing, trusting, without seeing proof.

Faith is powerful, but it's also relationship with God, even. Trust in Him. So it is precious. To preempt it would not be good, because faith itself is the goal.

Radiometric dating of meteorites and old rocks tell us about 4.55 billion years plus or minus about 1% (I think this means the time since Earth stopped accreting material at a very rapid rate).
 
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Halbhh

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Forgive me because I'm not a scientists but how can anyone measure or prove time?

Do you mean how is the ('radiometric') dating of meteorites and moon rocks and old rocks on Earth done? That's what has been dated to find the age of, stuff like that.

I have learned about that, but a well written explanation would likely help better than my wording (so I'll search up a link for you). I'd say something that might help or not if using my own words: I'd say that radioactive atoms decay (emit radiation and change into non-radioactive atoms in time) in a way that is statistically predictable (as a large number of them together), and that leads to the ratio of the radioactive atoms in a fixed/closed sample, like a dead fossil or rock, for example, changing over time in a way that is mathematically and physically precise and predictable, so we only have to measure and have a way to calibrate. I have learned that kind of stuff in some detail, but what you need is a clear explanation.

searching for a link for you....
 
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Halbhh

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Here's one short link that talks about which samples are dated with the method used, and now I will search for an article to explain more of the details, after this:

USGS Geology and Geophysics
 
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Halbhh

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With more of the details, the wiki is good because of the way you can click through any link in it to another wiki article that explains that piece in more detail:

Age of the Earth - Wikipedia

Here's another overview that is written more broadly:

How Science Figured Out the Age of Earth

Here's a popular science level article (searching one up now....)

Wait a minute! A key thing to learn is how we know how old stars are!! That will help. Let me find a nice introduction article on that....
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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2 Peter 3:8
"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

Now, we know time is relative. From God's viewpoint he sees all the way to the end.

Does science not say the same? The farther we go back in time the faster time goes.

God speaks = quantum fluctuations

350px-CMB_Timeline300_no_WMAP.jpg


Forgive me...
 
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Hawkins

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Forgive me because I'm not a scientists but how can anyone measure or prove time?

No one knows actually what 'time' is, as time isn't necessarily a stable physics unit. Our conception however is delivered from our perception of time which progresses stably forward.

Dating methods are all based on the assumption that no God exists to alter the time-space of planet earth, or otherwise we lose track of the amount of radioactive isotops. Moreover, God may create this universe and earth in different spaces then plug earth to its current position on Day 4. He may have created earth in a rather closed lab then placed it to our universe on Day 4 in Genesis.

That is to say, human conclusions are all based on assumptions. The speculation of earth's age is thus based on assumptions such as earth is a result of the Big Bang and thus inline with the age of this universe. Plus the assumption that earth is in its current time-space location all the times. If God exists, those assumptions may not be true.
 
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Halbhh

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How far away are the stars?

Star light must travel through space to reach us, and that takes time, since the light travels at a precise known speed -- about 186,000 miles per second.

I actually did an experiment with rotating mirrors and laser light to measure the speed of light, myself, in sophomore Physics lab in college.

I personally measured it, personally figured out exactly how the geometry of our experiment worked with with a rotating mirror and rotating light interrupters and light splitter, all of it. I saw how each part worked, personally worked out the trigonometry, myself, and how it would lead to what deflection according to the speed of the light in the beam.

So, it's not just hearsay when I tell you -- it is indeed close to 186,000 miles per second.

I know by actual direct observation what is that speed! heh heh

A light year is the distance light will travel through space in one year.

It's about 6 trillion miles.

But more importantly if light come from a star 100 light-years away, then that starlight is already 100 years old as it reaches us.

Because Earth orbits around the Sun, then 6 months apart in time, the Earth is on the opposite side of the Sun compared to a time 6 months before or 6 months after.

That distance, the diameter of the orbit, then causes stars close to us to appear to move their location in the sky compared to stars much further away. You can visualize this if you try, and/or read about it, it is called "Parallax" -- how a nearer (than most) star appears to be in a different location against the background stars because the Earth has moved.

Hold a pencil 6 or 10 inches from your face, see where the pencil is against a more distant object, and then move your head -- the pencil moves more than the more distant object.

That's parallax.

The exact Parallax of a star is precisely dependent on it's distance, with simple and clear geometry.

Parallax - Wikipedia

So, once we observe the precise parallax of any star that has a detectable parallax, then we know it's precise distance from us.

We can measure parallax using the Hubble space telescope now out to about 10,000 light years.

"In April 2014, NASA astronomers reported that the Hubble Space Telescope, by using spatial scanning, can now precisely measure distances up to 10,000 light-years away, a ten-fold improvement over earlier measurements.[9]"

Next, certain types of stars are extremely predictable, called "Cepheids" -- their light output varies over a period of time, consistently, cycling over and over, that depends on their mass (how heavy they are, how much matter they have).

Cepheid variable - Wikipedia

This method is actually very old stuff in old astronomy books also from way back, which I've read, for example in books where I read it from the 1970s, but also in older books you can find, etc.

So, seeing the Cepheid stars nearer to us (within that 10,000 light years) that also have measurable parallax, we can then find the relationship between the apparent brightness of the Cepheids by mass and their distance.

Then, this relationship, gradually getting better and better over the years, but still with some margin of error, allows us to deduce the rough order of distance to extremely distant Cepheids!!!

See?

We can figure out how far away those very distance Cepheids are!

So, we know there are Cepheids we can be sure are much further away than only 10,000 light years, because we can see their starlight!

Ergo, the Universe is very vast and very old, by direct observation, just with these 2 tools, even before this was all confirmed and refined and extended by other tools.

What other tools?

A very key one is the highly predictable and super extremely bright type 1A Supernovae.

Type Ia supernova - Wikipedia


They allow us to estimate far greater distances.
 
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Hawkins

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Star light must travel through space to reach us, and that takes time, since the light travels at a precise known speed -- about 186,000 miles per second.

No. It's rather common physics but not relativity. Relativity says that if light travels against light, the relative speed is still the speed of light. No one understands what it is. It's more like time and space will give way to facilitate a constant relative speed.

Our common sense is completely different in this scenario. 2 cars with speed 1 running towards each other will result in a relative speed of 2. This is common physics. However light doesn't behave this way all the times.
 
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Halbhh

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No. It's rather common physics but not relativity. Relativity says that if light travels against light, the relative speed is still the speed of light. No one understands what it is. It's more like time and space will give way to facilitate a constant relative speed.

Our common sense is completely different in this scenario. 2 cars with speed 1 running towards each other will result in a relative speed of 2. This is common physics. However light doesn't behave this way all the times.

Wow, I was just typing in the very real (read just below to see) answer above.... I'll just paste that:

I actually did an experiment with rotating mirrors and laser light to measure the speed of light, myself, in sophomore Physics lab in college.

It was the classic way:

Fizeau–Foucault apparatus - Wikipedia

and I directly understood all the pieces, assembled the setup, did all the math, myself, first hand, and did the experiment in full, and got the result, and had it verified by others measuring it there with me.

I personally measured it, personally figured out exactly how the geometry of our experiment worked with with a rotating mirror and rotating light interrupters and light splitter, all of it. I saw how each part worked, personally worked out the trigonometry, myself, and how it would lead to what deflection according to the speed of the light in the beam.

So, it's not just hearsay when I tell you -- it is indeed close to 186,000 miles per second.

I know by personal, actual, direct measurement/observation what is the speed of light! heh heh

(this is only relevant at the moment, but I had a full ride scholarship through college, etc., and am able to do that math, etc., etc.)

Not hearsay, for me. Direct testing and I spent the time, and the significant effort, the hours, and did it.
 
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Hawkins

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Wow, I was just typing in the very real (read just below to see) answer above.... I'll just paste that:

I actually did an experiment with rotating mirrors and laser light to measure the speed of light, myself, in sophomore Physics lab in college.

It was the classic way:

Fizeau–Foucault apparatus - Wikipedia

and I directly understood all the pieces, assembled the setup, did all the math, myself, first hand, and did the experiment in full, and got the result, and had it verified by others measuring it there with me.

I personally measured it, personally figured out exactly how the geometry of our experiment worked with with a rotating mirror and rotating light interrupters and light splitter, all of it. I saw how each part worked, personally worked out the trigonometry, myself, and how it would lead to what deflection according to the speed of the light in the beam.

So, it's not just hearsay when I tell you -- it is indeed close to 186,000 miles per second.

I know by personal, actual, direct measurement/observation what is the speed of light! heh heh

(this is only relevant at the moment, but I had a full ride scholarship through college, etc., and am able to do that math, etc., etc.)

Not hearsay, for me. Direct testing and I spent the time, and the significant effort, the hours, and did it.

Cool.
 
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CoolDude68

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I posed the question about the planet to get opinions from other Christians. I don't necessarily have any problems with science, but I do have issues when science uses time as a means to support false theories. God created ALL things and it's plausible that our galaxies can be billions of years old. Since God has always existed, time is not the essence for Him. However, the things He created must have a time stamp. Our planet may be old but His creation isn't. This applies to animals and humans, right? So how can a scientist make a statement that a fossil is 150 million years old?
 
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Halbhh

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I posed the question about the planet to get opinions from other Christians. I don't necessarily have any problems with science, but I do have issues when science uses time as a means to support false theories. God created ALL things and it's plausible that our galaxies can be billions of years old. Since God has always existed, time is not the essence for Him. However, the things He created must have a time stamp. Our planet may be old but His creation isn't. This applies to animals and humans, right? So how can a scientist make a statement that a fossil is 150 million years old?

There are so many possibilities. For instance, just one of very many possibilities is that having made the Universe, in time eventually God chose the forming new planet we now call Earth, and seeing it was suitable, then went to work on it to make it our home. But see, that's only one of so many possibilities, and we can't even know for sure, because God is very able to do whatever He wants, and could even chose to make things have a timestamp older than they were made, if He chose to, for His own mysterious purposes, such as even just to force us to rely entirely on faith alone, for instance. But again, that's merely yet another of so many different ways He could have done things. It's guessing, but my guessing about the time frame is that the days in Gen 1 are real days but widely spaced apart, and altogether over 4 billions years, etc., so that the timestamps in the fossils are actual, and not made to look old. But see, that's merely only another way He could have done things. That's why I refer to my mere viewpoint on this 'trivial' time duration thing with words like 'mere' and 'guessing' and 'trivial'. The subject matter of Gen 1 is something different than just a trivial thing like how many hours passed.
 
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Jipsah

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Dating methods are all based on the assumption that no God exists to alter the time-space of planet earth, or otherwise we lose track of the amount of radioactive isotops.
Baloney. That's kind of like saying that the rules of baseball are designed on the assumption that no God exists to alter how fast a human can throw a ball. The existence or not of God is irrelevant to methods of scientific inquiry.

Moreover, God may create this universe and earth in different spaces then plug earth to its current position on Day 4. He may have created earth in a rather closed lab then placed it to our universe on Day 4 in Genesis.
And God may have created the universe yesterday afternoon, and simply made everything look like it had been around for a long time. Easy enough if you're God, right? Scientists, and most of the rest of us, are betting that isn't the case.
 
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