Praying to Saints? - Praying to those who are already in Heaven?

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Friend-of-Jesus

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Quote Frend of Jesus: All believers are saints by the blood of Jesus only.

Ok, then there are Saints, as you have said, I don't think for one minute you or you minister should have to think highly of them or think of them at all, I think relatives of mine and great and good persons who have lived and died with and some for their belief in Our God are Saints, just as you have said, but your and my Last Day has not yet come~but for them it has they are with Our God and are able to worship Him now as they did while on earth.

Have you never spoken to a loved one who has gone~and now is with the lord.

The translation of our Bible you have~most of you have is I think in English~I'm sure it's pretty good~one of you might speak and read in Korean~While visiting a cousin ;ast week, who is very ill, I saw a Korean Bible~I didn't take it~I wanted it, even tho I couldn't read it~why, I don't know~but I wanted it```

Well, I'm gona go look around

setn

The Bible is the Bible. And it calls all believers saints (separated) because we have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus, not of their works.
 
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KarateCowboy

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THe same Elijah who was taken up in a whirl wind? As for Enoch (at least), this man still does not sleep.
I believe that is the one.

It sounds like your take on this is we all are bound for Soul Sleep until He comes again, but the few who do not sleep could be spoken to somehow. Is that a good guess?
 
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Constantine the Sinner

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The Bible is the Bible. And it calls all believers saints (separated) because we have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus, not of their works.
Christ says works show whether or not someone is a saint.
 
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KarateCowboy

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Unbiblical things were common practice back then. That's why Christ was hated by the high priests. He showed them to be wrong.

Prescriptive versus descriptive.

Yah that's the thing. It's a lot of work to sit down and mesh out about things like that. I err on the side of caution. I've called out to my late Dad once or twice "Dad! If you can hear me! Please come be with me in spirit!" -stuff like that, during a super hard time. However, I'm not quite sold on asking help from the "Pro" saints.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Okay, let's take a look at a few specific prayers prayed to Saint Ann (the mother of Mary):

DAILY PRAYER TO SAINT ANN

O glorious St. Ann, you are filled with compassion for those who invoke you and with love for those who suffer! Heavily burdened with the weight of my troubles, I cast myself at your feet and humbly beg of you to take the present intention which I recommend to you in your special care.

Please recommend it to your daughter, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and place it before the throne of Jesus, so that He may bring it to a happy issue. Continue to intercede for me until my request is granted. But, above all, obtain for me the grace one day to see my God face to face, and with you and Mary and all the saints to praise and bless Him for all eternity. Amen.

Our Father, . . . Hail Mary . . .

O Jesus, Holy Mary, St. Ann, help me now and at the hour of my death.

Good St. Ann, intercede for me.


Would anyone pray such things to a family member or friend here on earth?

Or how about this example, to Saint Ann as well:

Dear St. Ann, though I am but a prodigal child, I appeal to you and place myself under your great motherly care. Please listen to my prayers and grant my requests. See my contrite heart, and show me your unfailing goodness.

Deign to be my advocate and recommend me to God’s infinite mercy. Obtain for me forgiveness of my sins and the strength to begin a new life that will last forever.

Blessed St. Ann, I also beg of you the grace to love, to serve, and to honor your daughter, the most holy Virgin Mary. Please recommend me to her and pray to her for me. She refuses none your requests but welcomes with loving kindness all those for whom you intercede.

Good Jesus, be merciful to the faithful servants of Your grandmother St. Ann.

One more example:

Hail, all-powerful Lady. By God’s special favor, grant consolation to those who invoke you. Procure for them the eternal riches of heaven, and like a good mother, success in their temporal affairs as well.

Good St. Ann, obtain my deliverance from the punishment which my sins deserve. Obtain for me success in my temporal affairs; especially see to the salvation of my soul.

St. Ann, by your influence with Mary’s son Jesus, you have won the gift of conversion for many sinners. Will you then abandon me, who have chosen you as my mother? No, St. Ann. Your name alone, which signifies grace, assures me of the help of your prayers, and
these prayers will surely procure pardon and mercy from Jesus. You will pray for me now and at the hour of my death.

Again, would anyone be comfortable saying such things to a family member or friend? How is this not giving praise to a fellow (departed) human being, that God alone deserves?

Here is the source, for anyone who wants to do more reading:

St Ann Novena
Oh, so now the focus shifts to the content of the prayer...and yet the prayer asks St. Ann and Mary to take the prayer to Jesus for His resolution.

I think it's better than the prayers I've heard non-denoms pray...:doh:
 
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Friend-of-Jesus

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Abraham prays to an angel, "The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth."

Angel is more powerful than human being. It's a supernatural servant of God. But should we repeat every action the patriarchs did? Should we send "Urias" to death like David to sleep with his wife? Our only perfect example is Jesus Christ. He is God.
 
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Constantine the Sinner

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I believe that is the one.

It sounds like your take on this is we all are bound for Soul Sleep until He comes again, but the few who do not sleep could be spoken to somehow. Is that a good guess?
Soul sleep is completely unbiblical. Christ went and preached and saved those in Sheol according to 1 Peter 3:18-20, how was he preaching to people who weren't conscious? Moreover, where did they go after he saved him? Did they remain in Sheol? I don't think so. Christ also promised the thief on the cross he'd be with Him in Paradise, and Christ's account of life after death in his story of Lazarus makes it clear soul sleep does not exist. People are said to "fall asleep" when they die, in the Bible, (in fact, that is still what we Orthodox call it), but that applies strictly to their bodies, not their souls.
 
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Constantine the Sinner

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Angel is more powerful than human being. It's a supernatural servant of God. But should we repeat every action the patriarchs did? Should we send "Urias" to death like David to sleep with his wife? Our only perfect example is Jesus Christ. He is God.
Since the angels serve Jesus, of course he doesn't pray to them.

I don't know if we should repeat every action of the Patriarchs, but I do consider Abraham's faith to be immaculate and the standard of faith. So to say your faith is better than his is not admissible to me.
 
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KarateCowboy

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Soul sleep is completely unbiblical. Christ went and preached and saved those in Sheol according to 1 Peter 3:18-20, how was he preaching to people who weren't conscious? Moreover, where did they go after he saved him? Did they remain in Sheol? I don't think so. Christ also promised the thief on the cross he'd be with Him in Paradise, and Christ's account of life after death in his story of Lazarus makes it clear soul sleep does not exist. People are said to "fall asleep" when they die, in the Bible, (in fact, that is still what we Orthodox call it), but that applies strictly to their bodies, not their souls.
Cool. Thanks for sharing. I'm not sold on soul sleep and you're right about the thief on the cross. I was just trying to see if I understand correctly where another user is coming from.
 
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Root of Jesse

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They cannot, unless they are omniscient and/or omnipresent. (Qualities which belong to God alone.)
So you think God cannot grant these abilities to His children? I think that saying God cannot do something is trying to limit God.
 
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Friend-of-Jesus

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Christ says works show whether or not someone is a saint.

Oh no. Must be in some apocryphal gospel? Muslims beleive Jesus as a child blew life back into dead birds.

I only recognize the canonical Bible.
 
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Constantine the Sinner

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Angel is more powerful than human being. It's a supernatural servant of God. But should we repeat every action the patriarchs did? Should we send "Urias" to death like David to sleep with his wife? Our only perfect example is Jesus Christ. He is God.
Angels, by the way, are NOT innately any more powerful than human beings. They are only more powerful to the degree God gives them power to do things (that also applies to demons, they can't even enter swine without God giving them the power to do so). But humans can also be given immense, supernatural authority, as with Elijah and Moses.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Root of Jesse

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Asking dead people to take your prayers to God? Then Jesus didn't have to die, just have the dead intercede for us! :doh:

Speaking to the dead is necromancy, and that's not okay. Did Jesus pray to the dead? No, He prayed to the Father. We are to pray to the Father in the name of Jesus, our Great High Priest, the ONLY intercessor we ever need. Going through anyone else is not only speaking to dead idols but it robs God of the glory due Him alone.

0“There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.12“For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you.
Deuteronomy 18:9-12
The saints in heaven are not dead. Only their bodies are dead.
Deuteronomy 18:9-12 speaks of consulting the dead for your daily living. It's not the same thing as prayer.
 
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amariselle

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Oh, so now the focus shifts to the content of the prayer...and yet the prayer asks St. Ann and Mary to take the prayer to Jesus for His resolution.

I think it's better than the prayers I've heard non-denoms pray...:doh:

Of course it's about the content of the prayer! What in those prayers, for example is okay?
 
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