Praying to Saints? - Praying to those who are already in Heaven?

[AvilaSurfer]

Christians! Let's worship God and not humans!

No one is promoting worshiping humans, not even those evil Catholics.

 

[sethrak]

Well folks you make good points and are correct~if you think it wrong~don't do it~if you see it as good do it~it has been good hearing your thoughts.

seth

 

[sethrak]

No one is promoting worshiping humans, not even those evil Catholics.

Yes, those who are not unarmed!

 

[Phil 1:21]

All tradition, not every story was not written down, and other than what we have written can be as Christian as that on Parchment.

Except when that "tradition" contradicts the word of God.

 

[JacksBratt]

Several Hebrew records and writings we kept as Holy along with the records we ourselves have written and kept~are Holy and Important to us and all who are Christian.
Anything that we have omitted we nor God have not necessarily forbidden.

All tradition, not every story was not written down, and other than what we have written can be as Christian as that on Parchment.

seth

Understood. There are lots of History books. It is, however, been agreed that there are some writings that are considered to be the words of God Himself. They are all included in what was agreed to be indicated as canonical.

Any writing that is contradictory to these canonical writings, is not biblical. It can agree, and is still not canon. The book of Enoch, not canon, but parallel to, quoted in and synchronized with the bible... still not canon but a very informative book. Same goes for the Book of Jubilee, and the writings of Josephus. Neither is canon and they do not contradict the canonical scriptures.... still they are not canon.

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

No one is promoting worshiping humans, not even those evil Catholics.

Not evil, but misled. We're all God's beloved creation. And not Catholics only. We have Orthodox and others who are in the same error.

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

Even the Quran accuses Christians of deifying Mary. It's not good! Christ never taught to turn Mary and "saints" into God!

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Not evil, but misled. We're all God's beloved creation. And not Catholics only. We have Orthodox and others who are in the same error.

So you decide to respond to an obvious sarcastic remark, but not the meat of the statement, huh? And who's misled?

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

So you decide to respond to an obvious sarcastic remark, but not the meat of the statement, huh? And who's misled?

I think I've posted on that exact subject more than anybody in this thread... Please scroll up.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

I think I've posted on that exact subject more than anybody in this thread... Please scroll up.

You posted on "No one is promoting worshiping humans"? Hmm I must have missed that.

 

[Robert76]

The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray to anyone other than God.

The Bible nowhere encourages or even MENTIONS believers asking individuals in Heaven for their prayers.

Some believe that those who are glorified in Heaven have MORE "direct access" to God than we do.

Therefore, if a saint delivers a prayer to God on our behalf, it is MORE effective than us praying to God directly.

This concept is blatantly un-Biblical.

Hebrews 4:16 tells us that we, believers here on earth, can "approach the throne of grace with confidence."

My dear sisters and brothers, what is your opinion/view on this?

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It is my understanding that the position of the Roman Catholic Church is that they are not praying 'to' the saints, but asking the saints to pray on their behalf. I could be wrong, and apologize in advance if so.

To me, the involvement of saints is superfluous (unnecessary) as one of the key differences from the old covenant to the new covenant is that we can now directly talk to God (with the old covenant, there was a high priest that would go into the temple on behalf of the people). When Jesus died on the cross, the curtain was torn, showing that this "barrier" no longer exists. This is also supported with 1 Timothy 2:5:

1 Timothy 2:5 (ESV) states, "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus"

Jesus IS our high priest and I'm not aware of any scriptural references that suggest we need to go through any kind of triangulation to speak with God (that is, that we need to ask St Peter, or Mary, etc... to ask Jesus for us), we can speak directly to Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

"No one is promoting

Hundreds of millions, if not billions, do.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Hundreds of millions, if not billions, do.

One example

 

[amariselle]

What I simply cannot understand is how some believe it is perfectly acceptable to try to communicate with the dead? (Those who are physically no longer on this earth).

These saints that are being prayed to cannot even hear the prayers, unless of course they are omniscient and/or omnipresent, like God.

How can it possibly be pleasing to God that anyone would pray to a fellow human being who has left this life (no matter how faithful a Christian they may have been), rather than praying to Him alone, a blessing and privilege we have because of our Saviour, Jesus Christ.

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

they are not praying 'to' the saints, but asking the saints to pray on their behalf.

Well, it's a paradox, then. To pray is to ask. They're asking the saints to ask on their behalf? How's it not praying? Absurd.

 

[sethrak]

Greetings, Friend of Jesus, You're saying others are asking a Saint to pray for them, ~ but you're not saying they worship them. OK

You know we pray to The Christ and we also Worship Christ~this I think you permit``

Are there Saint, in your belief or not~or are they~like sleeping dead~what is it like to be with Our God~in your thinking````

seth

 

[Robert76]

Well, it's a paradox, then. To pray is to ask. They're asking the saints to ask on their behalf? How's it not praying? Absurd.

Yeah, I was raised Catholic and never understood things like the rosary and praying to various saints, etc... The statement "they are not praying 'to' the saints, but asking the saints to pray on their behalf." I got from here:
Is prayer to saints / Mary biblical?
I've been part of a non-denominational churches since my early 20's so it's been almost 20 years since I left Catholicism. It's partly a maturity thing for me, but even though I went through 1st Holy Communion and Confirmation as part of the Catholic church, things just didn't "click" with me and I never had a genuine relationship with Christ until I was in my 20's.

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

Greetings, Friend of Jesus, You're saying others are asking a Saint to pray for them, ~ but you're not saying they worship them. OK

You know we pray to The Christ and we also Worship Christ~this I think you permit``

Are there Saint, in your belief or not~or are they~like sleeping dead~what is it like to be with Our God~in your thinking````

seth

Declaring a sinful human being "saint" by his or her merit is idolatry. All believers are saints by the blood of Jesus only.

Worshiping "saints" or praying to them is idolatry. Only God is worthy of worship and prayer.

 

[Root of Jesse]

To venerate is to worship. If a murderer says, I don't murder I simply take lives, it doesn't change the action and the results the least bit...

Just as there are many forms of love, there are many types of worship. There is worship which is reserved for God alone, there is worship/honor given to people, and there is special honor for Jesus' mother. laetere, dulia and hyper-dulia.

 

[Root of Jesse]

As I have posted before... they are not receiving prayers to themselves, addressed to them, or anything else. They are simply taking the prayers, that are addressed to Christ, to Christ....

Right. Aren't all our prayers ultimately for God? So we're asking a group of people to make our requests known to the only one who can do anything about it...Same thing.