So, Jesus was lying?
John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
No. I already explained it to you. If a believer's ashes are cast at sea, they will not be in any grave and nor will they have ears to hear. This is talking exclusively about the resurrected body coming forth. It does not mean it is talking about the soul and spirit residing with the body in the grave the whole time. The soul and spirit can easily be placed within the body when it is time for the new body to come forth.
You said:
The angel was lying to Daniel?
Dan 12:2-3 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
See answer above.
You said:
David was confused?
Ps 17:15 As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.
See answer above.
You said:
Job was wrong?
Job 19:25-27 "As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth. 26 "Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God; 27 Whom I myself shall behold, And whom my eyes will see and not another. My heart faints within me!
One can see God in the spirit and in the body. For Paul says there is a natural body and a spiritual body. Angels are spirits and they see God all the time. For as many as received Christ, gave he power to become sons of God (John 1:12). Hence, why this..."mortal must put on immortality." (1 Corinthians 15:53). For God's good angels are immortal beings.
You said:
Paul didn't know what he was talking about?
1 Cor 15:20-23 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming
1 Cor 15:51-53 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Again, Paul talked of a natural body and a spiritual body. The Pre-Trib Rapture is the resurrection of the spirit body (i.e. the receiving of a new spirit body); And the time shortly before the Millennium and after the Millennium (shortly before the Judgment) are times of when God will bring forth the natural body type resurrections.
1 Corinthians 15:20-23 is the natural body resurrection.
1 Corinthians 15:51-53 is the spiritual body resurrection.
You said:
Sorry, I believe all of them.
So do I. You are just reading them in the wrong way.
You said:
No, Jesus told the thief that day, he would be with him in Paradise.
Moving the comma around does not change how it naturally sounds. Jesus is plainly saying to the thief that He would be with him Paradise that day. That day and not tomorrow or next week. Jesus did not say, this day I say unto you, "You will one day be with me in Paradise." That would be the more appropriate phrase if Jesus really wanted to convey that idea.
You said:
Jesus then went to hell, for the next 3 days;
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
This is saying that Jesus's soul was not left in hell (the realm of the dead) and his flesh did not see corruption in the grave or tomb. Hell (the people of hell) can be moved to greet a particular individual. For it is written...
"Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations" (Isaiah 14:9).
You said:
No. Jesus told a PARABLE, about the gospel being taken from the nation of Israel, and given to the Gentiles.
Not true. First, the "Story of Lazarus and the Richman" was not called a Parable and it did not speak generically. Second, all of Jesus's parables were based on real world examples of something that was true that has already happened or that was going to happen in our real world (at some point). Jesus did not speak untruth or fictional bed time stories to us. Jesus always spoke truth. To tell a fictional story is technically a lie or an untruth. So if you believe Jesus told a bed time story or a story that was a lie, then by all means, go ahead and believe that.
You said:
Hogwash. There is no "spiritual realm within the heart of the Earth", that's pagan nonsense. The phrase "heart of the Earth" is synonymous with "grave".
Who told you that? Some guy in an article? Or was that the Word of God?
You said:
Not according to Jesus;
Luke 4:16-21 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Jesus, BY THE SPIRIT, preached to those in prision (the captives).
No. Jesus preached to the spirits in prison who died in the global flood for their wickedness.
1 Peter 3:19-20 (NLT) says,
"So he went and preached to the spirits in prison— those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat."
The same thing is said in the KJV,
"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing.."
You said:
There is no "Pre-Trib Rapture". NO ONE is raised from the dead to immortality until Jesus returns to the earth forever,
Not true. In fact, there are some interesting things to notice that are different about the Rapture (i.e. The Appearing) and the Second Coming.
At the rapture, only those who are looking for him will see him:
•
Hebrews 9:28 ESV
So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
Now contrast that with the second coming to the earth:
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Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
At the rapture, Jesus comes FOR His church :
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1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
•
John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
However, at the second coming (after the tribulation period) , Christ comes WITH His saints:
•
Jude 1:14
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints.
•
Revelation 19:14
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
At the rapture, the LORD calls His church up to a wedding/marriage:
•
Matthew 25:10
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
But at the second coming to earth, He is returning from a wedding:
•
Luke 12:36
And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
You said:
...and there are only 2 resurrections, the righteous "at his coming", and the wicked plus all that die DURING the 1,000 year reign on the earth at the end of the 1,000 years (Rev 20
4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and
I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received
his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This
is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy
is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." (Revelation 20:4-6).
First, John sees the souls of those sitting on thrones; And John says he had seen the souls who were beheaded for the witness of Jesus. These are they that will go through the 1,000 year reign of Christ in Revelation 20 that is a part of the 1st resurrection. Nothing is mentioned of other believers who are not a part of these two groups. So the rest of the dead (i.e. the remaining believers and the wicked) will live not again until the 1,000 years will be finished.
Jason0047 said:
When Christ returns, we then see saints follow Jesus into the battle of Armageddon.
You said:
Hey! We agree on this one!!
But notice WHERE the saints come from. They do not come from the graves or anything. They follow Jesus down from out of the clouds. This suggests that the saints were coming down from out of Heaven with Jesus. So they were in Heaven!
You said:
The entire person is in the grave. Their breath is gone, they aren't thinking, they have "returned to dust" exactly like Jehovah/YHVH God said (Gen 3:19).
You are attempting to read pagan theories into Christ's clear simple statement.
I can say the same for you, but the real proof is the plain reading of Scripture.
You said:
Exactly! And what God gave is BREATH! (Gen 2:7)
It doesn't change anything if that was true or not. The truth is that God has a soul and a spirit and angels have souls and spirits so that does not mean that man's soul and spirit cannot also continue on to exist outside of a physical body (as some falsely assume). The spirit returns to God and it does not stay with the body or the ashes until the physical resurrection.
You said:
You are ignoring Paul's repeated teaching of the RESURRECTION!!! In sleep there is NO knowledge of time! Paul's next waking thought will be as a resurrected, immortal being!
While that may be true in your universe, that is simply not going to happen.
To gain in death, is not something that should involve a distortion of time. To die is gain is the most pure and true if one dies and they gain in being with Christ immediately.
You said:
Again! Spirit=breath in this context, and MANY others.
James 2:26 says the body is dead without the spirit. This means the spirit continues on without the body. Angels are spirits and they are not sleeping. God is a spirit and He is not sleeping.
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