This is a 3rd attempt to start a thread, in a part of the site that will allow discussions about the validity of the trinity. St Worm2 asked me to start this thread, so that we could discuss the issue in an appropriate thread, according to Forum guidelines.
So, to kick things off ... I have copied a portion of a previous post;
Please explain
John 20:17, and Rev 3:12, in that Jesus CLEARLY states he has a God!
Please explain
John 4:22, in that Jesus CLEARLY states he worships the God of the Jews!
Does God have a God? Explaining John 20:17 in Defense of the Trinity.
"Jesus saith unto her,
"Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.""
(John 20:17).
Is Jesus (Who is God) really saying He has a God?
In other words, does God have a God?
Well, in the beginning of the gospel of John, it says this...
John 1:1-2 KJV - "In the beginning was the Word, and
the Word was WITH God, and
the Word WAS God. The same was in the beginning with God."
In other words, John 20:17 is speaking in a similar way as John 1:1. The Word (Jesus - who is God) was with God the Father.
So when Jesus says...
"I ascend unto... my God..." He is acknowledging that He is ascending to the Father who is God in essence in being (as a part of the plurality of the Godhead).
Yet, how can God have a God? Doesn't that imply a possession?
Yes, but Jesus says elsewhere,
"I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).
Also, when Jesus uses the word
"my" in the words
"my God" He is also referring to whom He always obeys, too (Sort of like how a loyal servant always obeys His ruling King).
For Jesus says elsewhere,
"... for I do always those things that please him." (John 8:29).
Also, when Jesus claimed to be God, and the Pharisees wanted to kill him for it, Jesus quoted Old Testament Scripture that says,
"ye are gods." (i.e. gods = kings) as a way of protecting His mission in going to the cross (John 10:34).
Anyways, confusion on this topic arises because people need to know that the Lord our God is one God and yet He also has a plural nature to Him, as well.
For the Bible teaches that there is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4) (1 Timothy 2:5) (Isaiah 45:5).
Yet, the Bible also teaches that there are distinctions within the Godhead or that there is a plural nature to God.
Here are a couple of quick points:
#1. The word Elohim (אֱלֹהִ֔ים) is both a singular and a plural noun.
#2. God refers to Himself in plural form (
Genesis 1:26) (
Genesis 3:22) (
Genesis 11:7) (
Isaiah 6:8).
#3. Plurality of God in New Testament (
Matthew 28:19) (
2 Corinthians 13:14) (
John 14:16-20).
#4. Introductions to both the Son & Holy Spirit (
Daniel 7:9,
10,
13,
14) (
John 14:16)
#5. Different persons of Godhead appear at one time (
Luke 3:21-22)
#6. Distinctions of Wills (
Luke 22:42).
#7. Conversations Between the Godhead (
Psalm 2:1-12) (
Psalm 45:6-7) (
Psalm 110:1) (
Matthew 11:27) (
John 17:24).
However, if anyone here is in doubt that Jesus is God Almighty, here is some Scripture that declares that Jesus is God and that He is the Almighty.
Here is a great article on a list of verses that tell us this.
(See #45 and other numbers below).
160 Reasons Jesus Christ is Almighty God
By Thomas Golda
1. Jesus IS the visible image of the Invisible God - Colossians 1:15, II Corinthians 4:4...to see Jesus is to see the Invisible God - Mankind was created IN the image of God - Genesis 1:26...Jesus IS the image of God. To see Jesus is to see the Invisible God in the flesh.
2. Jesus was conceived by God - Luke 1:35, Matthew 1:20. Since Mary was his earthy mother, that makes Jesus fully human..since God was His physical Father, since Jesus did not have an earthy father, that makes Jesus fully God. He was fully man and fully God. The Great Godman.
3. To see Jesus' face is to see the glory of God - II Corinthians 4:6
4. Jesus "being in the form of God" makes Him God - Philippians 2:6
5. Jesus being the brightness of the Father's glory - Hebrews 1:3
6. Jesus is the exact image of the Father's Person - Hebrews 1:3
7. That is why to "see Jesus" is to "see the Father" - John 14:9, John 12:45
8. That is why Jesus said He and His Father are one - John 10:30
9. Jesus is IN the bosom of the Father - John 1:18. Not "on" the bosom"..not "near" the bosom...IN the bosom...He is in the center of the
Father. They are "one"
10. He is called EVERLASTING Father - Isaiah 9:6
11. Jesus deserves the SAME honour as the Father - John 5:23
12.Jesus was WORSHIPPED - Matthew 2:11, Matthew 9:12, Matthew 14:33, Matthew 28:9, Luke 24:52..Since only God is to be
worshipped - Matthew 4:10..that means Jesus is God.
13. Even angels WORSHIP Jesus - Hebrews 1:6
14. Heaven falls down before the Lamb - Revelation 5:8
15. Jesus Created ALL things - Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:2, John 1:3, Ephesians 3:9 ....God created all things - Acts 14:15, Isaiah
45:18, Isaiah 44:24, Isaiah 42:5. Jesus is God
16. Jesus also made the world - John 1:10. Jesus is God - Isaiah 44:18
17. Jesus created all things for HIMSELF - Colossians 1:16, Proverbs 16:4(Jesus is God)
18. By Jesus all things consist - Colossians 1:17
19. Jesus upholds all things - Hebrews 1:3
20. Jesus is before all things - Colossians 1:17
21. Jesus rules heaven and earth - Matthew 28:18. Jesus is God - II Chronicles 29:11
22. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath - Mark 2:28, Luke 6:5
23. Jesus called Himself the Great "I AM" - John 8:58, John 8:24...a quote from Exodus 3:14
24. In the body of Jesus dwells the fullness of the Godhead - Colossians 2:9
25. The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are THREE and they are ONE - I John 5:7
26. And this is all why Jesus is EQUAL WITH GOD - Philippians 2:6
27. Jesus was "God manifest in the flesh" - I Timothy 3:16
28. God was in Christ - Galatians 3:17, II Corinthians 5:19
29. Jesus is the Power of God and the Wisdom of God - I Corinthians 1:24
30. Jesus "only" hath immortality - I Timothy 6:16
31. Jesus is Lord of the living and the dead - Romans 14:9
32. Jesus is called the Saviour - Luke 2:11, Titus 1:4, Titus 2:13, Titus 3:3, II Peter 1:1, II Peter 1:11, II Peter 2:20, II Peter 3:18, I John
4:14
33. Only Jehovah God alone is the Saviour - Isaiah 43:11, Isaiah 45:15 , Hosea 13:4, I Timothy 2:2, Jude 1:25...that means Jesus is God.
34. Jesus ALONE is the Great Judge - John 5:22. The Judge is God - Hebrews 12:23, Revelation 18:8, Hebrews 13:4, Romans 2:3,5
Jesus is God. All the verses in the Bible that talk about God being the Judge refer to Jesus, since He alone judges. The Father
judges no man - John 5:22.
35. Jesus has the keys of hell and of death - Revelation 1:18. The one that can cast into hell is to be FEARED - Matthew 10:28, Luke
12:5 Only God is to be feared - Rev 14:7
36. Jesus is from EVERLASTING - Micah 5:2, Isaiah 9:6
37. Jesus has NO BEGINNING of days - Hebrews 7:3
38. Jesus is the SAME, yesterday, today and forever - Hebrews 13:8. A quote from Psalm 102:27. Jesus is God.
39. Jesus' is in the midst or the center of the throne of God - Rev 1:6
40. Jesus has the Greatest Name above every name ever named - Philippians 2:9
41. Jesus' name is the Greatest in the world to come as well - Ephesians 1:21
42. And it is before name of JESUS, not any other name including Jehovah, that the peoples of the earth and heaven and bowing before
- Philippians 2:10. Jesus is God - Isaiah 45:22-23
43. Only by the name JESUS can one be saved - Acts 4:10-12
44. Jesus is called the Alpha and Omega - Revelation 1:11
45. Jesus who is the Alpha and Omega is the ALMIGHTY - Revelation 1:7-8
46. Jesus is called the King of kings - I Timothy 6:15. Jesus is the King - Zechariah 9:9. The King is God - I Timothy 1:17. Jesus is God
47. Jesus is called Lord of lords - I Timothy 6:15. God is called Lord of lords - Deut 10:17. Jesus is God
48. Christ is called the ROCK - I Corinthians 10:4. That is who Israel followed. The ROCK who Israel followed was GOD - Deut 32:3-4.
God is the Rock - Psalm 18:2 and only God is the Rock - Psalm 18:31. Christ is God.
49. Jesus calls Himself the FIRST AND THE LAST - Revelation 1:11,17. Only GOD is the FIRST AND THE LAST - Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah
48:12. Jesus is God.
50. Jesus knows all things (OMNIPOTENT) - John 2:24-25, John 4:29, John 6:64, John 16:30
51. Jesus is OMNIPRESENT - Matthew 18:20, Matthew 28:20
52. Jesus' body fills all (is omnipresent) - Ephesians 1:23
53. Jesus knows the hearts of men - Revelation 2:23
54. Jesus dwells in the hearts - Ephesians 3:17
55. And "liveth" in the believers - Galatians 2:20
56. Jesus knows the thoughts of men - Matthew 9:4, Luke 6:8
57. And Jesus will judge the "secrets" of men - Romans 2:16
58. God shed His blood - Acts 20:28
59. The cross is the "power of God" - I Corinthians 1:17-18
60. Jesus called the Kingdom of God His Kingdom - John 18:36
61. Jesus is the "Deliverer" of the believers from the wrath of God - I Thessalonians 1:10, Romans 11:26. Only God is the Deliverer from
the wrath of God - II Corinthians 1:9-10
62. In Jesus' name we TRUST - Ephesians 1:12-13, Matthew 12:21, Philippians 2:19. Only in God do we trust - Psalm 4:5, 7:1, 31:1,
73:28, Isaiah 26:4. Jesus is God.
63. Jesus is the TRUTH - John 14:6. Jesus is God - Psalm 31:5
64. Jesus sent the prophets - Matthew 23:34...God sent the prophets - Jeremiah 7:25. Jesus is God who sent the prophets.
65. Jesus is the Stone of stumbling - I Peter 2:8. A prophesy from Isaiah 8:13-14. God is the stone of stumbling. Jesus is God.
66. God is the fountain of living waters - Jeremiah 17:13....Jesus is the fountain of living waters - John 4:10-14
67. Jesus brings reward to the wicked for their works - Matthew 16:27. Jesus is God - Psalm 54:4-5, II Samuel 3:39.
68. The reward of salvation is "with Jesus" - Revelation 22:12. Jesus is God - Isaiah 62:11, Isaiah 40:10
69. Jesus gave power to His people - Luke 9:1. Jesus is God - Psalm 68:35
70. Jesus is called the HOLY ONE - Acts 3:14. Jesus is God - Isaiah 30:15, Isaiah 40:25, Isaiah 41:14, Isaiah 43:15
71. Jesus is the light - John 8:12. Jesus is God - Psalm 27:1
72. Jesus is the Husband of believers - Revelation 19:7,9, 21:2, 21:9. Jesus is God - Isaiah 54:5
73. Jesus gives us rest - Matthew 11:28. Jesus is God - Exodus 33:14
74. Jesus gathers the sheep - John 10:16. Jesus is God - Ezekiel 34:11
75. Jesus seeks and saves that which is lost - Luke 19:10. Jesus is God - Ezekiel 34:16
76. Jesus is the Shepherd - John 10:11,14. Jesus is God - Psalm 23:1
77. Jesus feeds the people and causes them to sit down - Mark 8:5-10, Matthew 14:19-21. Jesus is God - Ezekiel 34:15
78. The blood of Jesus cleanses us from sin - I John 1:7. God cleanses from sin - Psalm 51:2, Ezekiel 36:25.. Jesus is God
79. Redemption is from Jesus Christ - Romans 3:24, Colossians 1:14. Redemption is from God - Psalm 130:7. Jesus is God
80. Christ is the Redeemer - Galatians 4:5, Galatians 3:13, Revelation 5:9, Titus 2:14. God is the Redeemer - Jeremiah 31:11, Isaiah
41:14, Isaiah 44:22, Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 44:24. Jesus is God
81. Jesus wrote new commandments with His finger - John 8:5-9. This is to show that He is God who wrote the 10 commandments with
His finger - Exodus 31:18
82. The Bible declares God. That God is Jesus who is written in all the scriptures - Luke 24:27, Luke 24:44, John 5:39, John 5:46
83. ALL things are by Jesus - I Corinthians 8:6
84. John the Baptist, the voice in the wilderness prepared the coming of the Lord - Matthew 3:3. A quote from Isaiah 40:3...He prepared
the coming of Jehovah God!!!!
85. Jesus forgave sin - Matthew 9:2, Mark 2:5....and only GOD can forgive sins - Mark 2:7. Only God can forgive sin where they are
atoned for it. Jesus is God.
86. Jesus forgave sins and healed diseases - Matthew 9:6. Only God can do that - Psalm 103:3
87. Jesus calmed the storm - Matthew 8:26...Only God can - Psalm 107:25
88. God was pierced - Zechariah 12:10...quoted again in John 19:37. Jesus is God
89. God was priced at 30 pieces of silver - Zechariah 11:12-13...quoted again in Matthew 27:9....Jesus is God.
90. Jesus returns again with His saints - I Thess. 3:13. A fulfillment of Zechariah 14:5 that says GOD will come with His saints. Jesus is
God.
91. The Jews wanted Jesus killed for the crime of Blasphemy - Matthew 26:65. In their minds He claimed to be God - John 10:33, and
Equal with God - John 5:18 and forgave as only God can do - Mark 2:7, Luke 5:21...that was blasphemy is their eyes - Mark 2:7,
Luke 5:21. Jesus by His words and actions claimed to be God...and that is why He was found guilty by the Jews of blasphemy.
92. Jesus raised Himself from the dead - John 2:19-21. John 10:17-18
93. Jesus will raise all the dead - John 6:39-40,44. God raises the dead both physically and spiritually - Ezekiel 37:12-14. Jesus is God
94. The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are one and the same. Christ is God - Romans 8:9
95. Jesus quickens (which means to make alive) - John 5:21. Only God can make someone alive - Ezekiel 37:5-6,9. Only God can
quicken - Psalm 80:18. Jesus is God.
96. One cannot serve God and mammon - Matthew 6:24. Only God is to be served - Romans 1:9. The One we serve is Jesus Christ -
Colossians 3:24.
97. Jesus is the one who "justifies" - Galatians 2:17. ONLY GOD can justifieth - Romans 8:33. Jesus is God.
98. Jesus "reveals" truth - Luke 10:22, Matthew 11:27. Only GOD can reveal truth - Philippians 3:15, I Corinthians 2:10. Jesus is God.
99. God will not share His glory with another - Isaiah 42:8, 48:11. But the Father glorifies the Son - John 17:1,5, John 12:23, John 13:31-
32. Jesus is God and He is ONE with the Father.
100. ONLY in the name of JESUS is their salvation. There is salvation is NONE OTHER - Acts 4:10-12, II Timothy 2:10. And salvation
belongs to GOD - Psalm 3:8, Jonah 2:9, Lamentations 3:26, Isaiah 52:10, Psalm 51:14. Since only in the name of Jesus is there
salvation and salvation belongs to God, that simply means Jesus is God.
101. Jesus chooses the elect - John 15:16. Jesus is God - I Thess. 2:13, I Cor. 1:27
102. Men are Jesus' disciples - John 13:35, John 15:8. Jesus is God - Isaiah 8:16
103. Jesus' voice is the sound of many waters - Revelation 1:15. Jesus is Almighty God - Ezekiel 43:2.
104. Jesus' feet are like fine brass - Revelation 1:15. Jesus is God - Ezekiel 1:7, Ezekiel 1:28
105. Jesus' name is the Word of God - Revelation 19:13
106. All grace comes from God - I Peter 5:10. Jesus is that God where all grace comes from - Rev 22:21, Romans 16:20, I Thess. 5:28,
II Thess. 3:18
107. Jesus comes with clouds - Rev 1:7, Matthew 24:30 - Jesus is God - Isaiah 19:1, Jeremiah 4:13, Numbers 11:25
108. Jesus is called God - John 1:1, Hebrews 1:8
109. Jesus is called The Great God - Titus 2:13
110. Jesus is called The Mighty God - Isaiah 9:6
111. Jesus is called The True God - I John 5:20
112. Jesus is "God with us" - Matthew 1:21
113. Jesus is called "My God" - John 20:28. Since there is "no other God" - Isaiah 45:5,21-22..that means Jesus is that God.
114. Jesus is called "our hope" - I Timothy 1:1. We hope in Jesus - I Cor. 15:19. We are to only hope in God - I Peter 1:21, Psalm 38:15.
Jesus is God.
115. Christ is our life - Colossians 3:4. Jesus is God - Psalm 42:8
116. Jesus is called Faithful - Revelation 19:11. Jesus is God - Deut 7:9
117. Jesus is called True - Revelation 19:11. Jesus is God - Romans 3:4
118. Israel temped Christ - I Corinthians 10:9. Jesus is God - Deut 6:16, Numbers 14:22.
119. Christ sent serpents and destroyed Israel - I Cor 10:9. Jesus is God - Numbers 21:6-7
120. Jesus rebukes and chastens - Revelation 3:19 - Jesus is God - Hebrews 12:5-7, Proverbs 3:11-12.
121. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of faith - Hebrews 12:2
122. God said "Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness" - Genesis 1:26. The plurality refers to the Trinity. This is not talking
about the angels or heavenly host. Angels cannot create life. Secondly, nowhere is it indicated that angels are made in the image of
God. Third, there is no indication that mankind is created in the image of angels.
123. The plurality of the Trinity is also referred to in Genesis 3:22 and Isaiah 6:8. Jesus is God.
124. Before Jesus became man, He had glory with the Father before the world was - John 17:5
125. All things are given into Jesus' hand - John 3:35
126. Jesus is described as "WHICH WAS" dead, and "IS" alive - Revelation 2:8. The one who "which was" and "which is" is Almighty
God - Revelation 4:8, Revelation 1:8. Jesus is God.
127. The "Great Day" of the Wrath of the Lamb - Revelation 6:16-17 is the "Great Day" of God Almighty - Revelation 16:14. Jesus is the
Lamb who is God Almighty.
128. Jesus is the King - I Timothy 6:15, John 18:37. Jesus is the King who is called the "only wise God" - I Timothy 1:17
129. Jesus is called the "Just One" - Acts 22:14. Jesus is God - Isaiah 45:21
130. Jesus "gives" repentance - Acts 5:31, Acts 3:26. Jesus is God - II Timothy 2:25
131. Jesus reconciled all things to Himself - Colossians 1:20. Jesus is God - Romans 5:18-19
132. Jesus brings Judgment on the churches in Revelation 2 and 3. Jesus is God - Hebrews 10:30, Deuteronomy 32:35-36
133. God has a Father - Revelation 1:6. That God is Jesus Christ.
134. Jesus stilled the waves and rules the sea- Matthew 8:26-27, Mark 4:39-41. Jesus is God - Psalm 89:8-9
135. Jesus has eyes that are sent forth into all the earth - Revelation 5:6 - Jesus is God - II Chronicles 16:9
136. To know the love of Christ is to be filled with the fulness of God - Ephesians 3:19
137. Christ strengthens the believers - Philippians 4:13. Christ is God - Isaiah 40:29, Isaiah 41:10
138. In Christ's presence is fullness of joy - John 15:11. Jesus is God - Psalm 16:11
139. To see Jesus is to see the Father and to hate Jesus is to hate the Father as well - John 15:24, John 15:23
140. Jesus turns the water into wine - John 2:7-11. A creative act to show that Jesus is Creator God.
141. Jesus walks on water - John 6:19, Matthew 14:26, Mark 6:48 - Jesus is God - Psalm 93:4, Psalm 95:5, Psalm 72:8, Job 9:8
142. Jesus causes the blind to see - Matthew 9:27-30, Matthew 11:5, Mark 8:22-26, Mark 10:51-52. Jesus is God - Psalm 146:8, Isaiah
35:4-5
143. Jesus causes the deaf to hear - Matthew 11:5, Mark 7:32, Mark 7:37 - Jesus is God - Isaiah 35:4-5, Isaiah 43:7-8
144. Jesus causes the dumb to speak - Matthew 9:32-33, Matt 15:31, Mark 7:37, Luke 11:14. Jesus is God - Isaiah 36:6, Ezekiel 24:27,
Ezekiel 33:22
145. Jesus causes the lame to walk - Matthew 11:5, Mark 2:11, Luke 7:22 - Jesus is God - Isaiah 35:6
146. Jesus' face shines as the sun - Matthew 17:2. Jesus is God - Psalm 84:11, Malachi 4:2
147. Jesus will inherit all nations - Psalm 2:7-8. Jesus is God - Psalm 82:8
148. Jesus will rule all nations with a rod of iron - Revelation 12:5. Jesus is God - Isaiah 14:5-6
149. Jesus will smite all nations with a rod or iron. He is the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God - Revelation 19:15. He is Almighty
God who brings wrath.
150. Jesus and His Father established the ends of the earth - Proverbs 30:4
151. Jesus was without sin - II Corinthians 5:21, Hebrews 4:15, I Peter 2:22. Only God is without sin - Deuteronomy 32:4. Jesus is God
152. Jesus is ABOVE ALL - John 3:31
153. Jesus is GOD OVER ALL - Romans 9:5
154. Jesus is LORD OF ALL - Acts 10:36
155. The Lord God sent His angel to John - Rev 22:6. It is Jesus that sent His angel - Rev 22:16. Jesus is the Lord God.
156. Jesus is called the "Lord of Glory" - I Corinthians 2:8. Jesus is YHWH God - Psalm 24:8-10
157. Jesus gets glory now and forever - II Peter 3:18
158. The Father calls Jesus "LORD" who made heaven and earth - Hebrews 1:10
159. Heaven is God's throne and earth His FOOTSTOOL - Isaiah 66:1, Matthew 5:34-35. Jesus is God - Matthew 22:44, Hebrews 1:13
160. Every knee shall bow, and "every tongue" shall confess to GOD - Romans 14:11. The God "every tongue" is confessing to is
JESUS CHRIST - Philippians 2:11
Article Source:
160 Reasons Jesus Christ is Almighty God
