Trinity discussion with St Worm2

[Dartman]

What does "to be born" mean?

That he WILL BE born, but he hasn't been born yet.

Gabriel declared "that holy thing"
to be born Gabriel declared HIM holy Prior to HIS birth

Gabriel said he was going to be born, and he would be a "holy thing". Your grasp of the grammar is strange.

 

[miknik5]

Notice that you have claimed that Jesus and The Father are not one
And worse that there are two holy spirits in Heaven

You have also claimed that you can breathe into another and pass on the Holy Spirit

Can you baptize someone into yourself also?

Notice, we are 7 pages into this thread, and STILL not one single passage has been produced that explains, teaches or preaches ANY tenet unique to the 'trinity'.
(Hint: there aren't any.)

 

[miknik5]

That he WILL BE born, but he hasn't been born yet.

Gabriel said he was going to be born, and he would be a "holy thing". Your grasp of the grammar is strange.

Strange that you can't understand Mary's confusion on how this holy "thing" (this baby) would even come about

Which is why Gabriel explained it to her

Luke 1:35

 

[Noxot]

What are you talking about? If you don't mind, including a quote of any point you wish to address, REALLY is helpful.

Why is that weird??? Jehovah/YHVH God Himself authorizes us to use the "reality" test; Deut 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken ...
Romans 1:20
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Some how, your assertion, completely devoid of ANY shred of evidence, just doesn't seem persuasive ..... even a tiny bit.
Reality contradicts you, and not one single verse states your case.

I was trying to get a bigger picture of you from various things you said so I can't be bothered to look into where you said what to respond to, as you might notice quotes that get out of hand start to get very messy.

when I read those verses it seems that they agree with what I said and maybe by you quoting them you mean to say that I agree with you noxot. i'm more trying to see what you are and comprehend you better than I am trying to fight for or destroy a certain position. why? because I want to see how far you can take this. to me and many we clearly see a trinity and merely saying that the bible does not say such is not very strong evidence against it because many other people have used the bible and many examples of the universe to describe that there is a trinity.

but I agree with you that this conversation is becoming too chaotic. if I see something specific that I can quote and reason with then I will make another post

 

[Robban]

Strange that you can't understand Mary's confusion on how this holy "thing" (this baby) would even come about

Which is why Gabriel explained it to her

Luke 1:35

Were their witnesses, someone taking notes?

Who knows what was said?

 

[miknik5]

Were their witnesses, someone taking notes?

Who knows what was said?

If you want to change THE WORD of GOD you are free to do that

But nobody who claims to believe GOD's WORD is HIS WORD should

 

[Robban]

If you want to change THE WORD of GOD you are free to do that

But nobody who claims to believe GOD's WORD is HIS WORD should

When Muhameed had an angel visit there were no witnesses either, are you muslim too?

 

[Dartman]

I would like to know why exactly you are against the idea of the trinity. is it because God does not state very clearly for you in john4 3:65 "I am a Trinity". ?

1) it is crucial to worship the right Jesus.
Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
2 Cor 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

The "Jesus" actually PREACHED in the Scriptures contradicts the "Jesus" of the trinity.

 

[Dartman]

Notice that you have claimed that Jesus and The Father are not one

Of course I haven't. Jesus and his God ARE one, as Jesus said, just like the believers are one.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

 

[Noxot]

1) it is crucial to worship the right Jesus.
Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
2 Cor 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

The "Jesus" actually PREACHED in the Scriptures contradicts the "Jesus" of the trinity.

ic. what do you think this last part of the verse means "...if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."?

I wish I knew greek and could read it in the original since in all translations I know people have sometimes mucked the translation.

 

[Noxot]

now that I read more of the surrounding scriptures it appears that paul is having a mystical understanding about how the soul works and how the spirit is and the confusion that can come about when such separation occurs. also, paul speaks about how Christianity will go astray in some forms and also be scattered and gathered by God and in grace and by peoples freedom to choose and by their perceptions.

2Cor 11:1-9 (KJV)
Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles. But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things. Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely? I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service. And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.

he speaks of angels coming to fill in the possible gaps that occurred in him trying to transmit the truth to others and how he robbed people by merely preaching the gospel because the truth is a serpent to those who are sleeping souls which eve is a symbol of. nevertheless paul said he is not to be blamed because "to the pure all things are pure", he did his part best he could to reveal God to them and so he had confidence that his works were in the Holy Spirit.

he spoke of how we go through a process in our soul, we wander around in the wilderness of our own mind until we come to an agreement with God and God no longer appears in the form of a serpent or a tree of knowledge of good and evil.

 

[Dartman]

now that I read more of the surrounding scriptures it appears that paul is having a mystical understanding about how the soul works and how the spirit is and the confusion that can come about when such separation occurs. also, paul speaks about how Christianity will go astray in some forms and also be scattered and gathered by God and in grace and by peoples freedom and to choose and their perceptions.

Paul certainly was concerned about them being deceived regarding which "Jesus" they accepted, which "spirit" they received, and which "gospel" they accepted.
Crucial to our discussion, Paul makes it VERY clear, the "Jesus" actually PREACHED by the apostles is the TRUE Jesus!
So, ANY teaching regarding Jesus, MUST pass the "did the apostles PREACH this" test.
The book of Acts has MANY examples of sermons preached to many different audiences.

NEVER

EVER

Is there a 'trinitarian" Jesus preached to ANY audience in Scripture.

 

[Noxot]

Paul certainly was concerned about them being deceived regarding which "Jesus" they accepted, which "spirit" they received, and which "gospel" they accepted.
Crucial to our discussion, Paul makes it VERY clear, the "Jesus" actually PREACHED by the apostles is the TRUE Jesus!
So, ANY teaching regarding Jesus, MUST pass the "did the apostles PREACH this" test.
The book of Acts has MANY examples of sermons preached to many different audiences.

NEVER

EVER

Is there a 'trinitarian" Jesus preached to ANY audience in Scripture.

why did paul tell them to bear with that spirit? why did jacob ( was it jacob?) wrestle with an angel until he was blessed?

 

[miknik5]

When Muhameed had an angel visit there were no witnesses either, are you muslim too?

Is thst the conclusion you have come to

 

[Robban]

Is thst the conclusion you have come to

What conclusion?
A couple of questions are hardly a conclusion.

 

[miknik5]

What conclusion?
A couple of questions are hardly a conclusion.

Then you'll be okay with me not responding to your question

 

[Dartman]

why did paul tell them to bear with that spirit?

Paul was warning them about avoiding deception, and instructing them to "bear" those risks appropriately. Paul's warning regarding " if you receive a different spirit" would be a teaching contrary to God's spirit.

why did jacob ( was it jacob?) wrestle with an angel until he was blessed?

Yes, it was Jacob, and I don't know the answer to your specific question.

 

[miknik5]

Paul was warning them about avoiding deception, and instructing them to "bear" those risks appropriately. Paul's warning regarding " if you receive a different spirit" would be a teaching contrary to God's spirit.
Yes, it was Jacob, and I don't know the answer to your specific question.

Or a Spirit other than CHRIST's

 

[Robban]

Then you'll be okay with me not responding to your question

No idea why, but there you go, would reckon.

 

[Noxot]

what deception will we have if we believe that God is a Trinity?