Trinity discussion with St Worm2

[Dartman]

This is a 3rd attempt to start a thread, in a part of the site that will allow discussions about the validity of the trinity. St Worm2 asked me to start this thread, so that we could discuss the issue in an appropriate thread, according to Forum guidelines.
So, to kick things off ... I have copied a portion of a previous post;

Please explain John 20:17, and Rev 3:12, in that Jesus CLEARLY states he has a God!
Please explain John 4:22, in that Jesus CLEARLY states he worships the God of the Jews!

 

[stuart lawrence]

This is a 3rd attempt to start a thread, in a part of the site that will allow discussions about the validity of the trinity. St Worm2 asked me to start this thread, so that we could discuss the issue in an appropriate thread, according to Forum guidelines.
So, to kick things off ... I have copied a portion of a previous post;

Please explain John 20:17, and Rev 3:12, in that Jesus CLEARLY states he has a God!
Please explain John 4:22, in that Jesus CLEARLY states he worships the God of the Jews!

You will need to be thick skinned to continue this! I speak from experience

 

[jimmyjimmy]

This is a 3rd attempt to start a thread, in a part of the site that will allow discussions about the validity of the trinity. St Worm2 asked me to start this thread, so that we could discuss the issue in an appropriate thread, according to Forum guidelines.
So, to kick things off ... I have copied a portion of a previous post;

Please explain John 20:17, and Rev 3:12, in that Jesus CLEARLY states he has a God!
Please explain John 4:22, in that Jesus CLEARLY states he worships the God of the Jews!

Are you denying the deity of Christ?

 

[Dartman]

You will need to be thick skinned to continue this! I speak from experience

Thank you for the support!
(I've been around this block a few times my self)

 

[Dartman]

Are you denying the deity of Christ?

Jesus was, is and always will be a man. (Luke 1, Matt 1, 1 Tim 2:5, Acts 17:31, John 17:3, 20:17 .. and MANY more)
Jesus is the most Godly man that ever has been, is, or will be. (Matt 12:18)
Jehovah/YHVH God was, is and always will be Jesus' God. (John 4:22, 20:17, Rev 3:12)
Jehovah/YHVH God has "exalted" the man Christ Jesus, to be Lord, Prince, Christ, King, "the firstborn from the dead", and seated Jesus, as the first man granted immortality, above all his brethren, at Jehovah/YHVH God's own right hand. (Acts 2:22-36)

 

[TheOldWays]

Jesus was, is and always will be a man.
Jesus is the most Godly man that ever has been, is, or will be.
Jehovah/YHVH God was, is and always will be Jesus' God.
Jehovah/YHVH God has "exalted" the man Christ Jesus, to be Lord, Prince, Christ, King, "the firstborn from the dead", and seated Jesus, as the first man granted immortality, above all his brethren, at Jehovah/YHVH God's own right hand.

I'm not a Christian anymore but somehow that makes more sense to me then the trinity stuff. Thanks for sharing.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Jesus was, is and always will be a man. (Luke 1, Matt 1, 1 Tim 2:5, Acts 17:31, John 17:3, 20:17 .. and MANY more)
Jesus is the most Godly man that ever has been, is, or will be. (Matt 12:18)
Jehovah/YHVH God was, is and always will be Jesus' God. (John 4:22, 20:17, Rev 3:12)
Jehovah/YHVH God has "exalted" the man Christ Jesus, to be Lord, Prince, Christ, King, "the firstborn from the dead", and seated Jesus, as the first man granted immortality, above all his brethren, at Jehovah/YHVH God's own right hand. (Acts 2:22-36)

Who was the God of Israel seen in the dessert by 74 of the Israelite leaders? Exodus24:9-11
Bearing in mind:
No man hath seen God at anytime
1john4:12

 

[stuart lawrence]

I'm not a Christian anymore but somehow that makes more sense to me then the trinity stuff. Thanks for sharing.

You only have to to go by the Bible you know.

 

[Dartman]

I'm not a Christian anymore but somehow that makes more sense to me then the trinity stuff. Thanks for sharing.

Thank you! I hope and pray this is the beginning of you following the TRUE Jesus;
2 Cor 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached ...

The Scriptures warn about a DIFFERENT "Jesus"! And Paul was VERY worried about the coming trinitarian heresy!! (2 Cor 11:3-4, Acts 20:17, 26-31, 2 Thess 2:1-12) and, so was John (1 John 2:18-24, Rev 17, 18)
The BEST insurance against this deception is, STAND FAST on the "Jesus" we can read being preached to audiences in the Bible! It is NEVER a trinitarian Jesus, or a trinitarian God!! NEVER!

 

[Dartman]

Who was the God of Israel seen in the dessert by 74 of the Israelite leaders? Exodus24:9-11
Bearing in mind:
No man hath seen God at anytime
1john4:12

Jehovah/YHVH God. The same Jehovah/YHVH God, that Moses was NOT allowed to see .... but WAS allowed to see His "back parts";
Ex 33:17-23 And Jehovah said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken; for thou hast found favor in my sight, and I know thee by name.
18 And he said, Show me, I pray thee, thy glory.
19 And He said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and will proclaim the name of Jehovah before thee; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
20 And He said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see me and live.
21 and Jehovah said, Behold, there is a place by Me, and thou shalt stand upon the rock:
22 and it shall come to pass, while My glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with My hand until I have passed by:
23 and I will take away My hand, and thou shalt see My back; but My face shall not be seen.

Jehovah Himself defines "see me" as "see my face" .... and no mortal man has EVER seen Jehovah God's face. BUT several have seen His physical form, which man is created to resemble.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Jehovah/YHVH God. The same Jehovah/YHVH God, that Moses was NOT allowed to see .... but WAS allowed to see His "back parts";
Ex 33:17-23 And Jehovah said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken; for thou hast found favor in my sight, and I know thee by name.
18 And he said, Show me, I pray thee, thy glory.
19 And He said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and will proclaim the name of Jehovah before thee; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
20 And He said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see me and live.
21 and Jehovah said, Behold, there is a place by Me, and thou shalt stand upon the rock:
22 and it shall come to pass, while My glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with My hand until I have passed by:
23 and I will take away My hand, and thou shalt see My back; but My face shall not be seen.

Jehovah Himself defines "see me" as "see my face" .... and no mortal man has EVER seen Jehovah God's face. BUT several have seen His physical form, which man is created to resemble.

But scripture states: no man hath seen God at anytime. Yet 74 men saw the God of Israel in the dessert

 

[stuart lawrence]

He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him john1:11

 

[stuart lawrence]

Thomas said:
My Lord and my God
John20:28
Jesus didn't rebuke Thomas for saying that. Yet only three chapters earlier Christ stated the Father was the only true God john17:3

 

[Dartman]

Jehovah/YHVH God. The same Jehovah/YHVH God, that Moses was NOT allowed to see .... but WAS allowed to see His "back parts";
Ex 33:17-23 And Jehovah said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken; for thou hast found favor in my sight, and I know thee by name.
18 And he said, Show me, I pray thee, thy glory.
19 And He said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and will proclaim the name of Jehovah before thee; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
20 And He said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see me and live.
21 and Jehovah said, Behold, there is a place by Me, and thou shalt stand upon the rock:
22 and it shall come to pass, while My glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with My hand until I have passed by:
23 and I will take away My hand, and thou shalt see My back; but My face shall not be seen.

Jehovah Himself defines "see me" as "see my face" .... and no mortal man has EVER seen Jehovah God's face. BUT several have seen His physical form, which man is created to resemble.

But scripture states: no man hath seen God at anytime.

Yes, of course. Jehovah Himself explains this in Ex 33. Why don't you accept HIS definition???

 

[stuart lawrence]

But in exodus ch24 they did not just see the God of Israel back parts

 

[Dartman]

He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him john1:11

Jesus is a Jew, he was given his God's spirit, and sent by his God to the Jews, his brethren.
(Luke 4:18-21)

 

[Dartman]

But in exodus ch24 they did not just see the God of Israel back parts

They did NOT see His face, which Jehovah Himself defines as "see Me".

 

[stuart lawrence]

Jesus is a Jew, he was given his God's spirit, and sent by his God to the Jews, his brethren.

And he was referred to as:
My Lord and my God by Thomas

 

[stuart lawrence]

They did NOT see His face, which Jehovah Himself defines as "see Me".

Doesn't say the face was hidden. They saw the God of Israel, yet they lived

 

[Dartman]

Thomas said:
My Lord and my God
John20:28
Jesus didn't rebuke Thomas for saying that.

Of course not! Jesus had just proved to Thomas, that Jehovah (Thomas' God), had raised Jesus (Thomas' Lord) from the dead! There is NO problem with Thomas praising both.

Yet only three chapters earlier Christ stated the Father was the only true God john17:3

EXACTLY!!! Jesus himself states that his Father IS the ONLY true God!!