What's on your mind?

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

Instead of engaging in controversial topics that people will always disagree on, I think it's best to find or come up with some jokes to break the conversation to more lightheartedness when things get too heavy. First subject: Speaking in tongues.

 

[Senkaku]

@Bortsss lol, I speak in tongues and thought that was funny

 

[Grandpa2390]

Instead of engaging in controversial topics that people will always disagree on, I think it's best to find or come up with some jokes to break the conversation to more lightheartedness when things get too heavy. First subject: Speaking in tongues.

Will-do boss

I attended a church that spoke in tongues for about 9 years. I am very well acquainted with this topic.
Speaking in Tongues was a real gift. the true gift was the ability to speak real languages (not a "godly" or "heavenly" language) without having learned them, and it was for the purpose of spreading the Gospel (not self-edification, but the edification of the church. as Paul makes it clear.).

What happens today in churches is not that Gift. i believe a lot of people are well-meaning, but deceived. they either
a. work themselves into an emotional frenzy (have seen it first-hand hundreds of times. The music is always Jamming. People start dancing and acting crazy until they finally hand themselves over to such a mental state.
Or they go the opposite way. Very emotional, start trying to speak in tongues while praying until they hand themselves over to such a mental state.)
b. are faking it (just like in 1 Corinthians. The Church has set attitude that those who speak in tongues are the only ones who are saved. They are more spiritual than those who don't speak in tongues. so those who don't are compelled to fake it in order to fit in. And if someone does happen to have the true gift (anything is possible right?) they are compelled to misuse it in order to constantly show the church that they have it and are still indeed spiritual.
Very cult-like)
c. they are demon possessed (less often than the other two, but I have seen this as well).


To those who believe this theology, You are not alone. I once did myself. I know others who had trouble letting it go. Praying gibberish is so engrained in their prayerlife that it is difficult at first.
Undoubtedly, handing yourself over to the mental state that "speaking in tongues" requires leaves you with an emotional high. But that's it. It is just a release of emotions. And it is an addiction.
A practice that is no different than the pagan religions that existed at the time.

 

[Travelers.Soul]

I attended a church that spoke in tongues for about 9 years. I am very well acquainted with this topic.
Speaking in Tongues was a real gift. the true gift was the ability to speak real languages (not a "godly" or "heavenly" language) without having learned them, and it was for the purpose of spreading the Gospel (not self-edification, but the edification of the church. as Paul makes it clear.).

What happens today in churches is not that Gift. i believe a lot of people are well-meaning, but deceived. they either
a. work themselves into an emotional frenzy (have seen it hundreds of times. The music is always Jamming. People start dancing and acting crazy until they finally hand themselves over to such a mental state.
Or they go the opposite way. Very emotional, start trying to speak in tongues while praying until they hand themselves over to such a mental state.)
b. are faking it (just like in 1 Corinthians. The Church has set attitude that those who speak in tongues are the only ones who are saved. They are more spiritual than those who don't speak in tongues. so those who don't are compelled to fake it in order to fit in. And if someone does happen to have the true gift (anything is possible right?) they are compelled to misuse it in order to constantly show the church that they have it and are still indeed spiritual.
Very cult-like)
c. they are demon possessed (less often than the other two, but I have seen this as well).

I wouldn't go that far, but I can see how you got there. I think some people do fake it, my uncle does. Some may get themselves into such an emotional frenzy they don't know what they are doing, I've seen that too. I also agree that some "speaking in tongues" may be demonic. However, I do not believe that everyone who speaks in tongues is any of those three. I know some very devote believers who speak in tongues and I do not doubt that it is sincere. When they do it a very sweet spirit seems to fill the room. I tend to think there are two different types of tongues; the kind that is a known language, which is what we see in Acts, and the kind that is an unknown language, which seems to be what Paul addresses. I'd say, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I tend to be cautious but open when it comes to the subject.

 

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

The Bible says that tongues are a spiritual gift and in another place Paul exhorts people not to forbid others to speak in them. I believe in most cases (where possible) there should be someone to interpret them. That's just me. I love cessationists like they're going out of style. I think they're wrong, but it's all good. I love it anyway.

 

[Grandpa2390]

I wouldn't go that far, but I can see how you got there. I think some people do fake it, my uncle does. Some may get themselves into such an emotional frenzy they don't know what they are doing, I've seen that too. I also agree that some "speaking in tongues" may be demonic. However, I do not believe that everyone who speaks in tongues is any of those three. I know some very devote believers who speak in tongues and I do not doubt that it is sincere. When they do it a very sweet spirit seems to fill the room. I tend to think there are two different types of tongues; the kind that is a known language, which is what we see in Acts, and the kind that is an unknown language, which seems to be what Paul addresses. I'd say, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I tend to be cautious but open when it comes to the subject.

It is an emotional release.
There are a lot of pagan religions that do this. Sit by a Bhuddist Monk while he meditates...
What Paul is addressing in 1 Corinthians 14 is this:
around Corinth there were pagan religions that practiced what you see in Charismatic churches today. and it was spreading into the church of Corinth (as all pagan practices did).

Not all had the gift of tongues, but it was a showy gift. so those who had it (the real gift), made a show of it. Those who didn't, faked it in order to not look less spiritual.

Read 1 Corinthians 14 and you will notice that sometimes tongue is singular, and other times it is plural. When it is singular, it is either referring to the pagan, counterfeit. the gibberish. because there is only one kind of gibberish. or a singular real language that nobody in audience (including the speaker possibly) understands. You can tell by context.
When it is plural, it is referring to the real gift. because there are many languages in the world.

I believe it is certainly possible that there are some in this world who can be given the real gift of tongues. but the chaos that occurs in charismatic/Pentecostal churches is not the real gift (or it is a misuse of the real gift where it is found). For the majority, these churches do not even obey the rules set by Paul in 1 Cor 14 regarding the use of the real gift.

 

[Grandpa2390]

The Bible says that tongues are a spiritual gift and in another place Paul exhorts people not to forbid others to speak in them. I believe in most cases (where possible) there should be someone to interpret them. That's just me. I love cessationists like they're going out of style. I think they're wrong, but it's all good. I love it anyway.

In all cases there must be an interpreter. which means that there was a gift of interpretation, and everyone knew who had it. Before you opened your mouth to speak in tongues, you had to know there would be someone to interpret. 1 Cor 14 is very clear on this topic. Perhaps not on whether the gift still exists, but on whether someone has the true gift and is using it properly.

Based on 1 Cor 14, most do not. and most churches do not govern its use properly.

 

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

Just to throw another topic out there before I hit the road: The extra books of The Bible.
I believe they are legitimate and authentic stories of the life of Christ and others and not heretical. I wouldn't preach for them because I believe the church counsels made the right decisions in choosing the canon by the sovereignty of God, but I think they make for excellent reading in filling in some of the gaps we don't have with our authorized scripture. For instance, did you know that where some Christian got the idea for "holy water" from is due to people being miraculously healed by the bath water of Jesus when He was a baby. Yeah, apparently people would gather around during those early days and seek to be touched by His water and other things. And God would use those things to heal people. Just a little FYI. I don't expect all people to believe in these things outside the Bible we're used to, but it does make for some fascinating reading nonetheless. Google it up yourself if you want to continue looking into this. Y'all have a great day!

 

[Grandpa2390]

Just to throw another topic out there before I hit the road: The extra books of The Bible.
I believe they are legitimate and authentic stories of the life of Christ and others and not heretical. I wouldn't preach for them because I believe the church counsels made the right decisions in choosing the canon by the sovereignty of God, but I think they make for excellent reading in filling in some of the gaps we don't have with our authorized scripture. For instance, did you know that where some Christian got the idea for "holy water" from is due to people being miraculously healed by the bath water of Jesus when He was a baby. Yeah, apparently people would gather around during those early days and seek to be touched by His water and other things. And God would use those things to heal people. Just a little FYI. I don't expect all people to believe in these things outside the Bible we're used to, but it does make for some fascinating reading nonetheless. Google it up yourself if you want to continue looking into this. Y'all have a great day!

how about the book about teenager Jesus? have you seen that?
I did find the book of enoch to be an interesting read though. but agree about the canon.

 

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

In all cases there must be an interpreter. which means that there was a gift of interpretation, and everyone knew who had it. Before you opened your mouth to speak in tongues, you had to know there would be someone to interpret. 1 Cor 14 is very clear on this topic. Perhaps not on whether the gift still exists, but on whether someone has the true gift and is using it properly.

Based on 1 Cor 14, most do not. and most churches do not govern its use properly.

I would agree with you on a person speaking in tongues to the congregation and holding off unless there was an interpreter up to the point of 1 Corinthians 14:28b where the Bible seems to permit a person speaking to God with tongues if it's just them and Him.

 

[Grandpa2390]

I would agree with you on a person speaking in tongues to the congregation and holding off unless there was an interpreter up to the point of 1 Corinthians 14:28b where the Bible seems to permit a person speaking to God with tongues if it's just them and Him.

only if the person understand the language he is speaking. 1 Corinthians 14:14-15
He is talking about his own understanding there. Not the understanding of others in the congregation.

Do not preach in Spanish to an English church. We both agree on that. But don't pray in gibberish on spanish either if you don't understand gibberish and spanish.

When you pray, pray with your spirit and your understanding. you can pray in any language you'd like. as long as all that are present (including yourself) can understand what is being said. Prayer is a not just an emotional exercise. anymore than a conversation between a husband and wife.

 

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

how about the book about teenager Jesus? have you seen that?
I did find the book of enoch to be an interesting read though. but agree about the canon.

No, I haven't read that or even the lost books yet. However, I have read some of Christopher Moore's fictional work of Lamb: The Gospel According to Christ's childhood friend, Biff. Lol
But that's a whole different thing in itself. It's a comedy novel that's been optioned by Disney. Gotta run

 

[Grandpa2390]

No, I haven't read that or even the lost books yet. However, I have read some of Christopher Moore's fictional work of Lamb: The Gospel According to Christ's childhood friend, Biff. Lol
But that's a whole different thing in itself. It's a comedy novel that's been optioned by Disney. Gotta run

the teenager jesus book is kind of funny. completely fictional. perhaps even heretical...
If Jesus is God-Man
then this portrays God-Boy. A regular punk teenager with Godlike powers. killing people who offend him and so forth.

 

[Paulie079]

Like I said, I have no issue with praying for God's kingdom and glory and for the sake of others, but it just feels slightly wrong when I try and pray for myself and whatever is going on in my life at the moment. Sometimes I can pray and I feel a weight lifted from me and I feel peace and other times it feels like there's a block there that won't let the feeling of peace pass through. It's strange when it happens and I'm not sure if it's just me or if I've somehow drifted away from God momentarily.

I really like what Traveler's Soul and others have said. God already knows what's on our hearts, so I think of prayer as being an exercise in acknowledging and expressing our need for God and His hand upon our life and others' lives. Because of that, I don't think you can really pray in a way that is sinfully selfish, you know? You are acknowledging that He is the one in control and you are actually taking a position of humility just in praying about it. And as far as praying according to His will, I think you just have to line up what you are praying for against Scripture to know whether or not that's the case. Some prayers you pray might not necessarily be either with or against His will, especially if it's something specific like 'Should I take that new job or stay with my current one?' I don't know that we are guaranteed peace about a situation after praying about it either, but I think we can at least take comfort in knowing that He is good in every sense of the word, and that He is in control.

 

[Grandpa2390]

I really like what Traveler's Soul and others have said. God already knows what's on our hearts, so I think of prayer as being an exercise in acknowledging and expressing our need for God and His hand upon our life and others' lives. Because of that, I don't think you can really pray in a way that is sinfully selfish, you know? You are acknowledging that He is the one in control and you are actually taking a position of humility just in praying about it. And as far as praying according to His will, I think you just have to line up what you are praying for against Scripture to know whether or not that's the case. Some prayers you pray might not necessarily be either with or against His will, especially if it's something specific like 'Should I take that new job or stay with my current one?' I don't know that we are guaranteed peace about a situation after praying about it either, but I think we can at least take comfort in knowing that He is good in every sense of the word, and that He is in control.

agreed. we are commanded to pray. for ourselves and for others. But it is not like the pharisees who prayed as if to tell God something he didn't already know. Prayer is about lining ourselves up with God, not God with us.

Pray for yourself and for others! It is one of those paradoxes, but you do it because it is a command, and because it works

 

[LadyOfMystery]

Morning y'all

I need my coffee.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Morning y'all

I need my coffee.

Morning! I need my morning blue koolaid to get started myself.

 

[Travelers.Soul]

@Grandpa2390
Are you a cessationist like John MacArthur?

 

[Travelers.Soul]

Morning y'all

I need my coffee.

Good morning!

 

[leothelioness]

I really like what Traveler's Soul and others have said. God already knows what's on our hearts, so I think of prayer as being an exercise in acknowledging and expressing our need for God and His hand upon our life and others' lives. Because of that, I don't think you can really pray in a way that is sinfully selfish, you know? You are acknowledging that He is the one in control and you are actually taking a position of humility just in praying about it. And as far as praying according to His will, I think you just have to line up what you are praying for against Scripture to know whether or not that's the case. Some prayers you pray might not necessarily be either with or against His will, especially if it's something specific like 'Should I take that new job or stay with my current one?' I don't know that we are guaranteed peace about a situation after praying about it either, but I think we can at least take comfort in knowing that He is good in every sense of the word, and that He is in control.

Thanks so much for that, Paul. I feel a lot better now about it all. I know it seems crazy to feel that way, but I think it's also just part of being a human and still being on our path of sanctification.