Perhaps today! The imminent return of Jesus Christ for His Church!

[Quasar92]

The New Testament teaching that Christ could return and rapture His church at any-moment, without prior signs or warning (i.e., imminency), is such a powerful argument for pretribulationism that it is one of the most fiercely attacked doctrines by pre-trib opponents. Non-pretribulationists sense that if the New Testament teaches imminency, then a pre-trib rapture is virtually assured.
DEFINITION OF IMMINENCY

What is the biblical definition of imminency? Dr. Renald Showers defines and describes imminence as follows:

1) An imminent event is one which is always "hanging overhead, is constantly ready to befall or overtake one; close at hand in its incidence." ("imminent," The Oxford English Dictionary, 1901, V, 66.) Thus, imminence carries the sense that it could happen at any moment. Other things may happen before the imminent event, but nothing else must take place before it happens. If something else must take place before an event can happen, then that event is not imminent. In other words, the necessity of something else taking place first destroys the concept of imminency.

2) Since a person never knows exactly when an imminent event will take place, then he cannot count on a certain amount of time transpiring before the imminent event happens. In light of this, he should always be prepared for it to happen at any moment.

3) A person cannot legitimately set or imply a date for its happening. As soon as a person sets a date for an imminent event he destroys the concept of imminency, because he thereby is saying that a certain amount of time must transpire before that event can happen. A specific date for an event is contrary to the concept that the event could happen at any moment.

4) A person cannot legitimately say that an imminent event will happen soon. The term "soon" implies that an event must take place "within a short time (after a particular point of time specified or implied)." By contrast, an imminent event may take place within a short time, but it does not have to do so in order to be imminent. As I hope you can see by now, "imminent" is not equal to "soon."1

A. T. Pierson has noted that, "Imminence is the combinatioin of two conditions, viz,: certainty and uncertainty. By an imminent event we mean one which is certain to occur at some time, uncertain at what time."2

IMMINENCY IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

The fact that Christ could return, but may not soon, at any moment, yet without the necessity of signs preceeding His return requires the kind of imminence taught by the pre-trib position and is a strong support for pretribulationism.

What New Testament passages teach this truth? Those verses stating that Christ could return at any moment, without warning and those instructing believers to wait and look for the Lord's coming teach the doctrine of imminence. Note the following New Testament passages:

1 Corinthians 1:7-"awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,"

1 Corinthians 16:22-"Maranatha."

Philippians 3:20-"For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;"

Philippians 4:5-"The Lord is near."

1 Thessalonians 1:10-"to wait for His Son from heaven,"

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18-"For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of {the} archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words."

1 Thessalonians 5:6-"so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober."

1 Timothy 6:14-"that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,"

Titus 2:13-"looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus;"

Hebrews 9:28-"so Christ . . . shall appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him."

James 5:7-9-"Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. . . . for the coming of the Lord is at hand. . . . behold, the Judge is standing right at the door."

1 Peter 1:13 -"fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ."

Jude 21-"waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life."

Revelation 3:11; 22:7, 12, 20-"'I am coming quickly!'"

Revelation 22:17, 20-"And the Spirit and the bride say, 'Come.' And let the one who hears say, 'Come.'"

"He who testifies to these things says, 'Yes, I am coming quickly.' Amen. Come, Lord Jesus."

It is significant that all of the above passages relate to the rapture and speak of the Lord's coming as something that could occur at any-moment, that it is imminent. This is why believers are waiting for a person-Jesus Christ-not an event or series of events such as those related to the tribulation leading up to Christ's second advent in which He returns to the earth and remins for His millennial reign.

IMMINENCE AND PRETRIBULATIONISM

As we consider the above passages, we note that Christ may come at any moment, that the rapture is actually imminent. Only pretribulationism can give a full, literal meaning to such an any-moment event. Other rapture views must redefine imminence more loosely than the New Testamnet would allow. Dr. Walvoord declares, "The exhortation to look for 'the glorious appearing' of Christ to His own (Titus 2:13) loses its significance if the Tribulation must intervene first. Believers in that case should look for signs."3 If the pre-trib view of imminence is not accepted, then it would make sense to look for signs related to events of the tribulation (i.e., the anti-christ, the two witnesses, etc.) and not for Christ Himself. But the New Testament, as demonstrated above, uniformly instructs the church to look for the coming of Christ, while tribulation saints are told to look for signs.

The New Testament exhortation to be comforted by the Lord's coming (John 14:1; 1 Thess. 4:18) would no longer have meaning if believers first had to pass through any part of the tribulation. Instead, comfort would have to await passage through the events of the tribulation. No, the church has been given a "Blessed Hope," in part, because our Lord's return is truly imminent.

MARANATHA!

The early church had a special greeting for one another, as recorded in 1 Corinthians 16:22, which was "Maranatha!" Maranatha consists of three Aramaic words: "Mar" ("Lord"), "ana" ("our"), and "tha" ("come"), meaning "our Lord, come." As with other New Testament passages, Maranatha only makes sense if an any-moment or imminent coming is understood. Such an understanding supports the pre-trib position.

No wonder these ancient Christians coined such a unique greeting which reflects an eager expectation of the Blessed Hope as a very real presence in their everyday lives. The life of the church today could only be improved if "Maranatha" were to return as a sincere greeting on the lips of an expectant people. Maranatha!

From: http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/tt7.html



Quasar92

 

[keras]

Why DO people believe in a rapture to heaven?

It’s a great idea! Get away from this troubled world.

It is the only end times doctrine that many have ever been taught.

But the fact there is no actual supporting scripture for this idea, is no deterrent because some scriptures can be made to infer the idea of a rapture. There are prophesies telling about spiritual happenings, but none of them actually say that any living people will be taken to heaven.

As there are many prophesies telling about the future of Israel, some people make the error of thinking the Israel of God is the Jewish State of Israel and the Christian Church is therefore, separate from the Israel of prophecy. This is incorrect, many passages in the New Testament confirm that there is only one people of God, call them the Ekkelasia, spiritual Israel or simply God’s righteous Christian people and the rest of the world are the ungodly peoples, doomed for destruction.

But the false idea of Two People Two Promises has to be an immutable tenet of the rapture theory for them to go to heaven, while ethnic Israel faces tribulation, etc. That this idea is un-Christian: ‘let them burn, we will be safe’, as well as the shockingly bad notion of ‘escape from responsibilities’, seems to not be a concern for them.

With the belief of a rapture removal to heaven firmly fixed in their minds, people then fail to see the truth of what God has planned for the future. There will be testing times, to come upon everyone as Luke 21:35 makes crystal clear. What we must pray for is not escape by removal, but for the Lord’s protection, promised to His people during all that is coming and for them to stand, dressed in white linen, before Jesus when He Returns. Revelation 19:9-11

 

[Quasar92]

Why DO people believe in a rapture to heaven?

It’s a great idea! Get away from this troubled world.

It is the only end times doctrine that many have ever been taught.

But the fact there is no actual supporting scripture for this idea, is no deterrent because some scriptures can be made to infer the idea of a rapture. There are prophesies telling about spiritual happenings, but none of them actually say that any living people will be taken to heaven.

As there are many prophesies telling about the future of Israel, some people make the error of thinking the Israel of God is the Jewish State of Israel and the Christian Church is therefore, separate from the Israel of prophecy. This is incorrect, many passages in the New Testament confirm that there is only one people of God, call them the Ekkelasia, spiritual Israel or simply God’s righteous Christian people and the rest of the world are the ungodly peoples, doomed for destruction.

But the false idea of Two People Two Promises has to be an immutable tenet of the rapture theory for them to go to heaven, while ethnic Israel faces tribulation, etc. That this idea is un-Christian: ‘let them burn, we will be safe’, as well as the shockingly bad notion of ‘escape from responsibilities’, seems to not be a concern for them.

With the belief of a rapture removal to heaven firmly fixed in their minds, people then fail to see the truth of what God has planned for the future. There will be testing times, to come upon everyone as Luke 21:35 makes crystal clear. What we must pray for is not escape by removal, but for the Lord’s protection, promised to His people during all that is coming and for them to stand, dressed in white linen, before Jesus when He Returns. Revelation 19:9-11

To the contrary. There is a prepondernce of Scriptural evidence as documented in the following four post link. I suggest you review it, to learn what that Scriptural evidence is that proves it, together with a list of esteemed theologians who fully endorse it. All taught by Jesus, Matthew,Luke, John and Paul.

Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

1) An imminent event is one which is always "hanging overhead, is constantly ready to befall or overtake one; close at hand in its incidence." ("imminent," The Oxford English Dictionary, 1901, V, 66.) Thus, imminence carries the sense that it could happen at any moment. Other things may happen before the imminent event, but nothing else must take place before it happens. If something else must take place before an event can happen, then that event is not imminent. In other words, the necessity of something else taking place first destroys the concept of imminency.

Mat 24:29　 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.　
Mat 24:30　 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.　
Mat 24:31　 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.　

..............................................................................

1Co 15:23　 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.　
1Co 15:24　 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.　


1Co 15:50　 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.　
1Co 15:51　 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—　
1Co 15:52　 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.　
1Co 15:53　 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.　
1Co 15:54　 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY."　
1Co 15:55　 "O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING? O HADES, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY?"


　
Rev 11:15　 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"　
Rev 11:18　 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."　


.

 

[SeventyOne]

With the belief of a rapture removal to heaven firmly fixed in their minds, people then fail to see the truth of what God has planned for the future. There will be testing times, to come upon everyone as Luke 21:35 makes crystal clear. What we must pray for is not escape by removal, but for the Lord’s protection, promised to His people during all that is coming and for them to stand, dressed in white linen, before Jesus when He Returns. Revelation 19:9-11

The very next verse, Luke 21:36 tells us to pray to escape all those things and to rather stand before the Son of man. Why are you saying the complete opposite?

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

MARANATHA!

MARANATHA!

 

[keras]

The very next verse, Luke 21:36 tells us to pray to escape all those things and to rather stand before the Son of man. Why are you saying the complete opposite?

Luke 21:34-36 is a very interesting prophecy.
First it says that we must take care that the great Day [of the Lord's wrath] doesn't catch us unawares. For that Day will come upon everybody, the whole world over.
So Be alert and pray for strength, so we can escape all that is coming and then stand before Jesus.
The word translated 'escape' here, does not mean removal, but protection, as the previous verse makes clear. That Day will come upon everybody..... To think the Church, or anybody would be 'raptured' away before the Day of wrath, is wrong and creates a Biblical impossibility.
Many verses tell us how the Lord will protect His own on that Day. Isaiah 43:2, Zephaniah 2:3, Nahum 1:7, 2 Thessalonians 1:7, +

 

[SeventyOne]

Luke 21:34-36 is a very interesting prophecy.
First it says that we must take care that the great Day [of the Lord's wrath] doesn't catch us unawares. For that Day will come upon everybody, the whole world over.
So Be alert and pray for strength, so we can escape all that is coming and then stand before Jesus.
The word translated 'escape' here, does not mean removal, but protection, as the previous verse makes clear. That Day will come upon everybody..... To think the Church, or anybody would be 'raptured' away before the Day of wrath, is wrong and creates a Biblical impossibility.
Many verses tell us how the Lord will protect His own on that Day. Isaiah 43:2, Zephaniah 2:3, Nahum 1:7, 2 Thessalonians 1:7, +

1. to flee out of, flee away
   1. to seek safety in flight
      
      
   2. to escape

Would you mind showing me one place where it means 'protected'? I see it used in regards to prisoners escaping jail, and Paul escaping when he was led down the wall in a basket, etc. I don't see anything that has to do with protection.

And it says that day will come upon everybody dwelling on earth. The church won't be on the earth.

 

[Quasar92]

Mat 24:29　 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.　
Mat 24:30　 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.　
Mat 24:31　 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.　

..............................................................................

1Co 15:23　 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.　
1Co 15:24　 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.　


1Co 15:50　 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.　
1Co 15:51　 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—　
1Co 15:52　 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.　
1Co 15:53　 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.　
1Co 15:54　 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY."　
1Co 15:55　 "O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING? O HADES, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY?"


　
Rev 11:15　 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"　
Rev 11:18　 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."　


.

Would you care to hazard an attempt to refute the fact that Jesus comes for His Church in Jn.14:2-3, 28 and 1 Thess.4:16-17? And will go to heaven, as documented in 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8, as well as in Rev.4:1-2 symbolically. For the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. Jesus will then return to the earth in His Second Coming WITH HIS CHURCH; riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, a sign of the righteous acts of the saints, in His armies from heaven, recorded in verse 14 Confirming Zech.14:4-5!

Tell me how the Church got into heaven in the first place and then are seen returning with Jesus when He returns to the earth in His Second Coming!


Quasar92

 

[keras]

Would you mind showing me one place where it means 'protected'? I see it used in regards to prisoners escaping jail, and Paul escaping when he was led down the wall in a basket, etc. I don't see anything that has to do with protection.

My Revised English Bible says: Luke 21:36 Be on the alert, praying at all times for the strength to pass safely through all that is coming....
This translation fits with the many verses that confirm the Lord's protection during His wrath. Removal to heaven fits with no verse in the Bible.

And it says that day will come upon everybody dwelling on earth. The church won't be on the earth.

False teaching! Jesus is talking to everybody; when you see this happening, you will know that the Kingdom of God is near. Luke 21:31

 

[BABerean2]

Tell me how the Church got into heaven in the first place and then are seen returning with Jesus when He returns to the earth in His Second Coming!

They died.

Do you know anyone there, now?

1Th 4:14　 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.　
.

 

[Quasar92]

Luke 21:34-36 is a very interesting prophecy.
First it says that we must take care that the great Day [of the Lord's wrath] doesn't catch us unawares. For that Day will come upon everybody, the whole world over.
So Be alert and pray for strength, so we can escape all that is coming and then stand before Jesus.
The word translated 'escape' here, does not mean removal, but protection, as the previous verse makes clear. That Day will come upon everybody..... To think the Church, or anybody would be 'raptured' away before the Day of wrath, is wrong and creates a Biblical impossibility.
Many verses tell us how the Lord will protect His own on that Day. Isaiah 43:2, Zephaniah 2:3, Nahum 1:7, 2 Thessalonians 1:7, +

1 Thess.1:10 "and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.


Qiasar92"

 

[Quasar92]

My Revised English Bible says: Luke 21:36 Be on the alert, praying at all times for the strength to pass safely through all that is coming....
This translation fits with the many verses that confirm the Lord's protection during His wrath. Removal to heaven fits with no verse in the Bible.

False teaching! Jesus is talking to everybody; when you see this happening, you will know that the Kingdom of God is near. Luke 21:31

In the first of the four posts in the following link provides the precise departure of the Church, described under the translation history of 2 Thess.2:3. From that, please explain to me how the Church is recorded in heaven, for the marriage; the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, while the tribulation is taking place on earth. recorded in Rev.19:7-8. Followed by Jesus return to the earth WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horse, dressed in fine linen, white and clean [verse 8], in His armies from heaven, in verse 14!

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

They died.

Do you know anyone there, now?

1Th 4:14　 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.　
.

How much time do you have for me to relate he many I know who are in heaven now. Review 2 Cor.5:6-8, confirming Ecc.12:7.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

They died.

Do you know anyone there, now?

1Th 4:14　 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.　
.

No! They did not all die!

1 Cor.15:51 "Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—"

1 Thess.4:15 "According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep."


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

until the coming of the Lord

1Co 15:23　 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.　
1Co 15:24　 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.　


Rev 11:15　 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"　
Rev 11:16　 And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God,　
Rev 11:17　 saying: "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.　
Rev 11:18　 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."　



2Ti 4:1　 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

　

Joh 5:27　 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.　

Joh 5:28　 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice　

Joh 5:29　 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.　

Joh 5:30　 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.　

.

 

[SeventyOne]

My Revised English Bible says: Luke 21:36 Be on the alert, praying at all times for the strength to pass safely through all that is coming....
This translation fits with the many verses that confirm the Lord's protection during His wrath. Removal to heaven fits with no verse in the Bible.

I'm not interested in what your translation says. I'm interested in meaning of the actual word used. I can point you to other translations that use the word 'escape' if you wanted to go that route, KJV, ESV, ASV, YLT, etc.

False teaching! Jesus is talking to everybody; when you see this happening, you will know that the Kingdom of God is near. Luke 21:31

Not everyone will escape what is coming on the earth. Surely, you are aware that the rapture doesn't take the entire population of the earth away, right?

It lines up with Isaiah 26 where the dead are raised and His people are told to enter their chambers with the Lord prior to His punishment coming on the inhabitants of the whole earth.

 

[keras]

1 Thess.1:10 "and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

Note; it says His Son from heaven..... This refers to the Return of Jesus. And He rescues us FROM the wrath... out of it, not before it!

I'm not interested in what your translation says. I'm interested in meaning of the actual word used. I can point you to other translations that use the word 'escape' if you wanted to go that route, KJV, ESV, ASV, YLT, etc.

But if the meaning that you prefer contradicts other Bible passages, in this case; the previous verse, then 'escape' by a rapture removal to heaven, is NOT the true interpretation.

Not everyone will escape what is coming on the earth. Surely, you are aware that the rapture doesn't take the entire population of the earth away, right?
It lines up with Isaiah 26 where the dead are raised and His people are told to enter their chambers with the Lord prior to His punishment coming on the inhabitants of the whole earth.

As there is no verse in the Bible that says God intends to take the Church to heaven 'en masse', then that theory is wrong.
Isaiah 26:20-21 is a warning to us to take cover when the Lord comes in flaming fire to destroy the ungodly people.... 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.... then; He will reveal His glory to His own people.

 

[SeventyOne]

But if the meaning that you prefer contradicts other Bible passages, in this case; the previous verse, then 'escape' by a rapture removal to heaven, is NOT the true interpretation.

It doesn't contradict anything other than your understanding.

As there is no verse in the Bible that says God intends to take the Church to heaven 'en masse', then that theory is wrong.
Isaiah 26:20-21 is a warning to us to take cover when the Lord comes in flaming fire to destroy the ungodly people.... 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.... then; He will reveal His glory to His own people.

And I'm sure the dead rising just before the event, as it also states in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, is just mere coincidence.

 

[keras]

It doesn't contradict anything other than your understanding.

'escape' in Luke 21:36 is a flat out contradiction to 'everyone the whole world over' in Luke 21:35.

And I'm sure the dead rising just before the event, as it also states in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, is just mere coincidence.

Now you are mixing up events.
Luke is referring to the Day of the Lord's wrath, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, that happens years before Jesus' Return, as per 1 Thess 4:15-17