This Means WAR: The ObamaCare Betrayal By Senators Capito And Murkowski Can Never Be Forgotten

[AirPo]

I am shocked -- shocked -- to find that senators sometimes vote for symbolic or PR purposes.

Or to protects their seats, .

 

[Belk]

Noting that all Republican senators and congressmen, with the exception of Susan Collins, have campaigned under the banner of repealing Obamacare.

Goody for them, that does not answer my question.

 

[Nithavela]

Or to protects their seats, .

You know what's beautifull?

In a democracy, in sharp contrast with a monarchy or dictatorship, protecting their seats and doing what their costituents want is actually the same thing. This way, they can be selfish and do good things at the same time.

 

[Hank77]

At best, they put state ahead of country. I'm not sure how much praise or respect that should command.

That is their job. They are suppose to represent the people in their state. When they come together the consensus for the country should be based on the combined representation from each state.
That is how our republic was set up to run. It is why it has been successful all these years and life for all people has improved. ie. no more children working in factories of the robber barons. Instead they can go to school.
But it doesn't appear to work that way anymore. It's tow the partisan line or you're out.
I respect the representatives that vote how their constituents want them to no matter if it agrees with what I want or not.

 

[Hank77]

Generally speaking, in this country we've held that Senators are not supposed to be simply middle men for conveying the opinions of the homefolks to Washington but, rather, that they are to legislate with the interests of the country in the forefront.

You just failed to correctly answer a question on the citizenship test given to immigrates. See question/answer #3.
Are we misrepresenting our government to immigrants? I don't think so.
U.S. Citizenship Test: A Representative Government Flashcards | Quizlet

 

[Halbhh]

Don't spend too much time or energy being caught up in the things of the world.

The Jews were under the heel of the Romans, forced to pay extortion taxes.

Yet, even so, Christ said, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's" (!)....

He is telling us not to be caught up in the temporary and worldly.

It's not what we are about.

I won't put my trust in mere worldly countries, laws, governments, but only try to be a good citizen, and help my brothers and sisters win eternal life.

This mortal life here is but a moment, like a mist evaporating in the morning sun.

 

[Albion]

LOCK THEM UP! LOCK THEM UP!

As we see, those who think that the failure of the Congressional GOP to pass a bill--any bill that alters Obamacare--will leave the Dems as the owners of Obamacare when it collapses...

...have greatly misjudged the Left's ability to spin almost anything into being the Republicans' fault.

 

[Albion]

You just failed to correctly answer a question on the citizenship test given to immigrates. See question/answer #3.
Are we misrepresenting our government to immigrants? I don't think so.
U.S. Citizenship Test: A Representative Government Flashcards | Quizlet

I am often amazed at how otherwise intelligent and well-read people can so badly misread simple statements...and now you've given me another example from your own reading.

 

[Nithavela]

As we see, those who think that the failure of the Congressional GOP to pass a bill--any bill that alters Obamacare--will leave the Dems as the owners of Obamacare when it collapses...

...have greatly misjudged the Left's ability to spin almost anything into being the Republicans' fault.

Yeah, it takes a rhetoric genius to spin the facts until one questions how a party can control the house, the senate and the presidency and be at fault when it can't get its own bills passed.

How many seats would the republicans need to have to be responsible for what happens in congress? 60? 70? 80?

 

[Albion]

Yeah, it takes a rhetoric genius to spin the facts until one questions how a party can control the house, the senate and the presidency and be at fault when it can't get its own bills passed.

How many seats would the republicans need to have to be responsible for what happens in congress? 60? 70? 80?

Well, in all fairness, a two-vote margin isn't something any party can bank on, and definitely not when Senators are contemplating such a complicated bill as this one.

It took the Dems a year and a half to agree on their Obamacare bill, and it passed only because one Republican joined them on several critical procedural votes in the process (although not on final passage).

 

[Hank77]

I am often amazed at how otherwise intelligent and well-read people can so badly misread simple statements...and now you've given me another example from your own reading.

Then please explain your previous post that I responded to.

 

[Hank77]

It took the Dems a year and a half to agree on their Obamacare bill, and it passed only because one Republican joined them on several critical procedural votes in the process (although not on final passage).

Did Dems, over that year and half, meet behind closed doors, not speak with their constitutes, not include amendments suggested by the Reps., not meet with health care workers, not meet with insurance providers, etc.?
This bill was written by 13 Reps. behind closed doors. They did it without listening to what people in health care were saying or even to what BCBS, the largest insurance provider in the country, told them about how it would cause premiums to go up.
They have had at least 7 years to do their homework and still failed the exam.
Trump said "HE" had a better plan than the ACA. Where is it? Did he just toss in the trash once he was elected?
Maybe he should present it to the people and the heck with the Republicans.

 

[Albion]

"Then please explain your previous post that I responded to."


A Senator OF COURSE "represents" the people of his state in one sense of the word. He is the Senator from X state. Senators are chosen state by state, as we all know. That wasn't the issue.

He is not expected simply to be their mouthpiece by always voting in the way that some poll or guesswork indicates that the majority of the residents of that state prefer. He's not merely the stand-in for them, nor did the quiz you presented say any such thing. By the way also, this has come up during election campaigns, from time to time, when some incumbent, but maverick, like John McCain or Joe Lieberman has cast a vote that he thinks is in the national interest even though it goes against popular opinion back home.

 

[Nithavela]

Well, in all fairness, a two-vote margin isn't something any party can bank on, and definitely not when Senators are contemplating such a complicated bill as this one.

It took the Dems a year and a half to agree on their Obamacare bill, and it passed only because one Republican joined them on several critical procedural votes in the process (although not on final passage).

So, once again, how big of a margin is required (in your opinion) before you can hold a party accountable for its own failures?

 

[lasthero]

Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible.

-Donald Trump

I guess he didn't mean for those words to apply to him.

 

[Hank77]

"Then please explain your previous post that I responded to."


A Senator OF COURSE "represents" the people of his state in one sense of the word. He is the Senator from X state. Senators are chosen state by state, as we all know. That wasn't the issue.

He is not expected simply to be their mouthpiece by always voting in the way that some poll or guesswork indicates that the majority of the residents of that state prefer. He's not merely the stand-in for them, nor did the quiz you presented say any such thing. By the way also, this has come up during election campaigns, from time to time, when some incumbent, but maverick, like John McCain or Joe Lieberman has cast a vote that he thinks is in the national interest even though it goes against popular opinion back home.

You said.....

Generally speaking, in this country we've held that Senators are not supposed to be simply middle men for conveying the opinions of the homefolks to Washington but, rather, that they are to legislate with the interests of the country in the forefront.

No they are not. They are to legislate in the interest of the people of their state. What is good for one state may be harmful to another state. I vote for a Senator that keeps my state in view, not the view of what is good for people in MA or AK.
We can see this principle in the ACA itself. States were given the option of expanding Medicaid in their state or not. Their Congressional representatives did their job by seeing that this provision was written into the ACA laws.

 

[Albion]

Did Dems, over that year and half, meet behind closed doors

Yes.

not speak with their constitutes

I don't know why you'd say this. We all saw (on TV) meetings held with constitutents at which that issue was front and center.

not include amendments suggested by the Reps., not meet with health care workers, not meet with insurance providers, etc.?

The Republicans have done all of this.

 

[PeachyKeane]

When push comes to absolute shove... It is a little comforting to know that there are some Senators that aren't blind and can see the harm the bill would have caused.

They put country ahead of party and deserve praise and respect.

"We have to make an example out of somebody, so we might as well start with them — pour encourager les autres.

So here’s what we do. We primary them. We never, ever forget this betrayal. This goes for anybody else who votes against having this legislation going forward. All of them get the same treatment. No more donations for any of the turncoats. If they appear on the radio, we call in and rip them to shreds for this vote. We confront them wherever and whenever we can. We pull out all the stops."

Notice the hate in the above quote. Why is everything so binary in the GOP. If you don't toe the line you are a traitor and deserve political execution?

There are legitimate reasons for voting against the bill. Very real and very legitimate reasons. I will go so far as to say that there are legitimate reasons for supporting the bill. Even though I'm firmly against the bill, I can see the logic behind wanting to repeal Obama care...

My point is this is a complex issue, but the author is treating this issue as if it is a simple slam dunk obvious right or wrong issue and it is not.

We should respect all legitimate choices. And opposing this bill is legitimate. In fact, it should say something to the GOP party that their own party thinks this bill is crap.

I'm amazed that the hatred of all things Obama is so strong that GOP types would rather burn the country to the ground over healthcare rather than acknowledge that his solution is better than theirs and work to make Obamacare better rather than introduce their horrid legislation which would kill people by the hundreds of thousands via omission.

It's us against them. The policy is ultimately inconsequential as long as we win and they lose.

 

[Albion]

You said.....

No they are not. They are to legislate in the interest of the people of their state.

Keep re-writing what I said until you get it the way you want it.

 

[TBDude65]

It seems that some members of the GOP are now finally facing the harsh reality of just how dishonest the GOP is. Unfortunately that revelation isn't coming with a wholesale change of heart and instead some are doubling down on the party of dishonesty