Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[SkyWriting]

Mt 7 does not over ride 1tim2;11-14

No, actually it overrides everything, and for two reasons.
One because it says it overrides all else,
and two, it says so in multiple places by multiple authors
written in multiple times, like all correct tenets.
The golden rule is also the narrow gate that leads to salvation:

So if you who are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!
In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets. Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

So, any gender rules are blasphemy and incorrect religion.

Matthew 2237Jesus declared, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’d 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’e 40All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commandments.”

Luke 6:31
Do to others as you would have them do to you.

Romans 13:8
Be indebted to no one, except to one another in love, for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law.

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law.

Galatians 5:14
The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

James 2:8
If you really keep the royal law stated in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.

So, gender and gender preference bias is blasphemy and incorrect religion.

 

[JIMINZ]

Parables are spiritual truths.
As a result of the lack of faith, and hardheartedness of the people, Jesus chose to use parables because they have the double purpose of revealing and concealing - revealing to those with faith and concealing from the hardhearted:

In Mat. 13:10-12, Jesus tells us that through the parables the mysteries of the kingdom are revealed.

Hi again CI

Your belief is, this Parable Luke 12:42-46 is about each individual Christians Salvation

First, there are some questions which need to be answered.
1) It sounds as though you are saying, the individual Christian in this Parable, has been placed over the household of his own Salvation, when it says in v.42, it was the Lords household which the servant was set over?

2) We then find in v.45, the servant beats, the menservants and the maidservants, who are these people in this servants household, if the household according to your belief is the servants Salvation?

Be Blessed

 

[ChristianIssues]

In Luke 12:42, Jesus is showing that the faithful and wise manager will be obedient to the Master's will. His faithfulness is demonstrated by His obedience. His obedience does not earn him faithfulness.

Conversely, the disobedient servant demonstrates his unfaithfulness. This passage is demonstrating that if you claim faithfulness to Christ, and then are disobedient to him, you are demonstrating you are a hypocrite and not saved.

Salvation is of the Lord. To say that one can be a "heaven bound Christian" and then "end up condemned" is to say that God is not sovereign, that God tries to save someone, but because of the creature's sovereign will, God fails to save them. This is not a Biblical concept and points to works based salvation.

John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. (28) I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. (29) My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.


God is sovereign, not man. Man does not have libertarian autonomous free will.

 

[ChristianIssues]

In Luke 12:42, Jesus is showing that the faithful and wise manager will be obedient to the Master's will... Conversely, the disobedient servant demonstrates his unfaithfulness.

You have missed the very important point that there is only ONE servant in the parable. That servant will either be rewarded for faithfulness or "cut to pieces and assigned a place with unbelievers" if he is unfaithful.

John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. (28) I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. (29) My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

In these verses, both "hear" and "follow" are Present Tense. This means that Jesus' sheep continue to hear and continue to follow Jesus. Jesus protects these sheep but if the stop hearing and following they will wander off and be lost.

 

[ladodgers6]

That is a shame really as Jesus said that He used parables -
1) To reveal the mysteries of the kingdom - Mat_13:10-12.
2) Conceal things from those who are wilfully blind, deaf and hardhearted - Mat_13:13-15.
3) Bless those who see and hear through the parables - Mat_13:16.

Jesus chose to use parables because they have the double purpose of revealing and concealing - revealing to those with faith and concealing from the hardhearted.

If we consider parables to be of little value, or second class in establishing doctrine, then we being dismissive of the very method Jesus chose to reveal spiritual truths to those who are willing to listen.



I can agree with that statement but tell me what happens to the servant if Jesus returns and finds that he hasn't persevered but beating servants and getting drunk? Please bear in mind that there is only ONE servant in the parable.

I understand what you are saying. To be frank, I do not know why that it. But I will dig into it. Question,
did Christ's enemies understand His parables?

 

[JoeP222w]

You have missed the very important point that there is only ONE servant in the parable. That servant will either be rewarded for faithfulness or "cut to pieces and assigned a place with unbelievers" if he is unfaithful.

Parables are often a metaphor.

Regardless, the man's faithfulness to God is demonstrated by his obedience. If he is not obedient, he demonstrates he has no faith in God.

In these verses, both "hear" and "follow" are Present Tense. This means that Jesus' sheep continue to hear and continue to follow Jesus. Jesus protects these sheep but if the stop hearing and following they will wander off and be lost.

I don't disagree. But hearing and following, actively, is only because of the grace and perseverance of God at work in the heart of the believer in Jesus Christ. Moreover, sheep do not choose the Shepherd. The Shepherd chooses the sheep.

 

[ChristianIssues]

Hi again CI

Your belief is, this Parable Luke 12:42-46 is about each individual Christians Salvation

Yes, even though the parable is only speaking about one servant, it is applicable to all Christians.

It sounds as though you are saying, the individual Christian in this Parable, has been placed over the household of his own Salvation, when it says in v.42, it was the Lords household which the servant was set over?

The parable is in reply to Peter's question and, as you said, it was the Lord's household (church) which the servant was set over as manager.[/quote]

2) We then find in v.45, the servant beats, the menservants and the maidservants, who are these people in this servants household, if the household according to your belief is the servants Salvation?

Not really sure of what you mean. It is Jesus' household that the servant manager is left in charge of and he may be found beating other servants.

 

[ChristianIssues]

I understand what you are saying. To be frank, I do not know why that it. But I will dig into it. Question,
did Christ's enemies understand His parables?

I can only quote Jesus - In Mat_13:13-15, He said that parables conceal things from those who are wilfully blind, deaf and hardhearted.

 

[ChristianIssues]

Parables are often a metaphor.

Regardless, the man's faithfulness to God is demonstrated by his obedience. If he is not obedient, he demonstrates he has no faith in God.

You have missed the fact that the servant was appointed manager by Jesus. Jesus would hardly appoint a man of no faith to manage His household and secondly Jesus said He would put him in charge of all His possessions if he remained faithful so he was obviously a saved man.

... hearing and following, actively, is only because of the grace and perseverance of God at work in the heart of the believer in Jesus Christ. Moreover, sheep do not choose the Shepherd. The Shepherd chooses the sheep.

Amen to that.

 

[ladodgers6]

I can only quote Jesus - In Mat_13:13-15, He said that parables conceal things from those who are wilfully blind, deaf and hardhearted.

Great we should quote Christ Alone! I am in 100% agreement. So now you have decipher who are willfully, deaf, and hardhearted. But here is the Scripture that says that the ones who were trying to arrest him said this.

Matt. 21:33-46. I will quote the passage, that states what I said. I also provided the whole parable if you want to research it.

45When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them. 46And although they were seeking to arrest him, they feared the crowds, because they held him to be a prophet.

I have answered your questions. Will you address mine?

 

[JIMINZ]

Yes, even though the parable is only speaking about one servant, it is applicable to all Christians.

The parable is in reply to Peter's question and, as you said, it was the Lord's household (church) which the servant was set over as manager.

Not really sure of what you mean. It is Jesus' household that the servant manager is left in charge of and he may be found beating other servants.

The questions are, is it your belief.
1) The Lords household which the Individual Christian is left in charge of is, his own Salvation?
2) Who then are the menservants, and maidservants spoken of in v.45?
3) If your belief is, "even though the parable is only speaking about one servant, it is applicable to all Christians."
How is every servant (Christian) left in charge over the Lords Household (The Church)

I thought you said this Parable was about every individual Christians Salvation, now you place him over the Church?

Be Blessed

 

[Hillsage]

181

If so, how do you explain Heb 5:9 which stipulates obedience as a requirement for eternal life?

Do you not know that the "life" of God for this age is different than the "life" of God in the ages to come? Or do you now have a glorified/saved body too? You again need better translational understanding than most argue with. That is unless you believe you'll still be 'working out the salvation of your soul with fear and trembling'...for eternity and the "ages to come".

YLT HEB 5:9 and having been made perfect, he did become to all those obeying him a cause of salvation age-during,

183

If a truly born again Christian will always repent as you believe, then the onus is on you to explain Mk 11:26 where Jesus himself stated that IF we don't forgive others, God won't forgive us our sins.

A truly born again Christian is saved from the ETERNAL spirit consequence of his sins by Jesus. Your TEMPORAL soul forgiveness and the judgments related to them will depend upon your continual dealing with sin til the day you die. Unless you claim to be sinless like Jesus was, and therefore you have no need of Him.

Jesus never forgave the ETERNAL/heavenly/spiritual consequence of sin while on earth. He only forgave TEMPORAL/earthly/soulish sins when he healed and raised from the dead. He dealt with the TEMPORAL/physical consequence because that was all the authority he had until the day he was crucified and given the name above all names concerning authority.

MAR 2:9 Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Rise, take up your pallet and walk'? 10 But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins"

If this verse was talking about TEMPORAL and ETERNAL, then why did HE still have to die on the cross? And as to your question above; We too can only 'not be forgiven' for the TEMPORAL consequence of our sins, just like we can only forgive the TEMPORAL consequence of sins for others;

John 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

185

Your reference to Rom 3 is also irrelevant as Paul is referring to the ritualistic OT law which cannot save anyone. Curiously, you still have avoided reconciling Js 2:24 which plainly states that a believer is JUSTIFIED by WORKS and not faith alone.

Not really so 'curious', since it's the only verse you can find to prove your point. And in James the subject was the salvation of the soul James 1:21 and not the spirit. So you suffer the same 'one eyed' view of salvation problem, that Martin Luther did. Without a 'two eyed' understanding of the salvation of the spirit and the soul in the NT you will never achieve the 'depth perception' to see correctly. Both of the JUSTIFIED by WORKS examples in James pertained to OT examples, and not NT JUSTIFICATION.

 

[SkyWriting]

If you read it more carefully you will see that calling God a consuming fire is regarding a warning given a few verses earlier in Heb 12:25: "See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven?"

I did read it. The "consuming fire" is about Christians with strong faith who are a visible message to others. God is the Creator. Not a Tiger with sharp teeth or a consuming fire. That would be found in Revelations, later.
All biblical tenants have multiple sources spread over time.

 

[ChristianIssues]

The questions are, is it your belief.
1) The Lords household which the Individual Christian is left in charge of is, his own Salvation?
2) Who then are the menservants, and maidservants spoken of in v.45?
3) If your belief is, "even though the parable is only speaking about one servant, it is applicable to all Christians."
How is every servant (Christian) left in charge over the Lords Household (The Church)

I thought you said this Parable was about every individual Christians Salvation, now you place him over the Church?

Be Blessed

Jesus gave the parable in answer to Peter's question in v.41 and even though Jesus spoke of only one servant, the parable has an application to all servants. I say that because if one servant can go astray and lose his salvation then any other can also.

Jesus spoke of a manager (singular) left in charge of the church who could either remain faithful and be rewarded or go astray and be condemned.

 

[ChristianIssues]

I have answered your questions. Will you address mine?

I am losing track a bit here but I think you are referring to the meaning of "I will" in Ezekiel. I can only say that 'I will' means 'God will'.

 

[ladodgers6]

I am losing track a bit here but I think you are referring to the meaning of "I will" in Ezekiel. I can only say that 'I will' means 'God will'.

If you read Ezekiel 36, our Salvation is God's Oath that HE WILL DO! God's say "I WILL.." This is the Gospel. The good news for the ungodly. But people want to add our works, or obedience to it. Which is what Paul warned the Galatians about. Now people always misunderstand what I am saying. I am not denying evangelical obedience of the believer, here. I am just pointing out that our works are in the wrong category. Our evangelical works do not justify us. Our evangelical works fall into the category of Sanctification. Now being made alive in Christ by God, we live to God. Because He has done for us, what can't do for ourselves in His Son, Christ Jesus!

That's why God says "I WILL put my Spirit in you as a deposit, and guarantee it by the seal of His ownership!

And God proclaims that we will be His people, and He will be our God! This is the good news! Which God does in Christ, and mot by anything we do!

 

[ChristianIssues]

If you read Ezekiel 36, our Salvation is God's Oath that HE WILL DO! God's say "I WILL.." This is the Gospel. The good news for the ungodly. But people want to add our works, or obedience to it. Which is what Paul warned the Galatians about. Now people always misunderstand what I am saying. I am not denying evangelical obedience of the believer, here. I am just pointing out that our works are in the wrong category. Our evangelical works do not justify us. Our evangelical works fall into the category of Sanctification. Now being made alive in Christ by God, we live to God. Because He has done for us, what can't do for ourselves in His Son, Christ Jesus!

That's why God says "I WILL put my Spirit in you as a deposit, and guarantee it by the seal of His ownership!

And God proclaims that we will be His people, and He will be our God! This is the good news! Which God does in Christ, and mot by anything we do!

Amen, I sure agree but many disagree when I say that we need to lead a repentant life in order not to perish. You said, "I am not denying evangelical obedience of the believer" and I believe that that obedience is a continuance in repentance and belief as
Mark 1:15 shows - Jesus said, "Repent and believe the good news". Both of the words "repent" and "believe" are Present Active Imperatives meaning that Jesus commands us to continue in repentance and belief.

Then in Luke 13:3 Jesus said "Unless you repent, you too will all perish". "Repent" is Present Active Subjunctive meaning that we must continue in repentance otherwise we will perish.

Many say that ongoing repentance is works but the fact is, it is not works but a command from Jesus as these verses show.

 

[JIMINZ]

(((<^**^>)))

 

[JIMINZ]

Jesus gave the parable in answer to Peter's question in v.41 and even though Jesus spoke of only one servant, the parable has an application to all servants. I say that because if one servant can go astray and lose his salvation then any other can also.

Jesus spoke of a manager (singular) left in charge of the church who could either remain faithful and be rewarded or go astray and be condemned.

This particular Parable is about the Scribes and the Pharisee, and the way as unfaithful stewards they took care of Gods Kingdom.
They beat the menservants and maidservants of God, (The Jewish People)
They shall have their part with the unbelievers.

Be Blessed

 

[ChristianIssues]

This particular Parable is about the Scribes and the Pharisee, and the way as unfaithful stewards they took care of Gods Kingdom.
They beat the menservants and maidservants of God, (The Jewish People)
They shall have their part with the unbelievers.

Be Blessed

I believe the parable is about Jesus, the Master, being away. You will be hard pressed to find a commentary that says otherwise.