Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[ChristianIssues]

Something I meant to mention is confession of our sins. The Lord sends His Holy Spirit to live within us to give us power over sin (2 Pet. 1:3-4) and we also have self control to resist sin. To walk in holiness the Lord commands us to confess/repent of our sin whenever we do sin.

Heb. 12:14 says that without holiness no one will see the Lord. Holiness is achieved by confessing when ever we sin. When we confess, we are forgiven as 1 John 1:9 says.

 

[I'm_Sorry]

Something I meant to mention is confession of our sins. The Lord sends His Holy Spirit to live within us to give us power over sin (2 Pet. 1:3-4) and we also have self control to resist sin. To walk in holiness the Lord commands us to confess/repent of our sin whenever we do sin.

Heb. 12:14 says that without holiness no one will see the Lord. Holiness is achieved by confessing when ever we sin. When we confess, we are forgiven as 1 John 1:9 says.

He's so awesome!

It's reminding me of this: Revelation 2:21

God gives us time to repent! Even in the above state!

He is truly God.

 

[aiki]

Read the parable again. The sheep was found when it repented. Jesus himself provides the explanation in v.7 - "I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

This is obviously false. The sheep did nothing but get itself lost. It was the shepherd who rescued the sheep. And he did this because it was his sheep. We are just like the lost sheep in that we cannot act to save ourselves; we are "dead in trespasses and sins" (Eph. 2:1); God must save us, just like the shepherd must seek out and save the sheep. God does this by bringing us to repentance (2 Ti. 2:25) He illuminates our understanding; He convicts us of our sin; He softens our hearts and minds to His truth; He gives us new life in Christ. And when God does all this and brings one of His "lost sheep" eternally into His fold, heaven rejoices. Clearly, then, the parable has nothing whatever to do with being saved and lost.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

since this parable isn't actually talking about backsliding but rather those servants who are wicked and false ones whom Christ never knew who still called on His name(matthew 7:21-23), who proceeded to use the time of the master's absence to deal wickedly, this isn't going to be the clear cut verse that some may think.

 

[stuart lawrence]

The OC applies as Jesus is the fulfillment of Law, NOT the abolishment of the Law (Mt 5:17). If you are claiming that the OT law was abolished and no longer applies, you are in error. While the ritual sacrifice of the OC was abolished and no longer applies, the moral aspects of the OC are carried into the NC as the law is now on our hearts and minds (Heb 10:16).
And like I already pointed out just citing a few examples throughout Scripture that those people who belong to God don't always obey and repent as you mistakenly claim. You must contend with the examples given in Scripture and not ignore them. A true Christian can always choose whether to repent or not - do you disagree?
You have not addressed James 2 have you? Instead you offer Rom 4:6 as a proof-text which ironically proves my point instead of yours. This verse quotes David in the OT Ps 32:1-5 where David confesses and repents of his sin. Righteousness/justification was credited to David upon his repentance. If David did not repent, he would not have been forgiven. In the same way, righteousness/justification is credited to us upon our repentance. If we do not repent, we will not be forgiven.

I see you don't understand the apostle Pauls message. I have NOT claimed the moral law was abolished. However, a righteousness/ justification of observing the moral law does not exist for the believer, as I can easily prove from rom ch7 if necessary, let alone numerous other scriptures.
Concerning David:
Do not bring your servant into judgement, for no one living is righteous before you
Psalms143:2

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

When it comes to approving pastors for service:

Mathew 7: 12
In everything then, do unto others as you would have them
do unto you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

So,
any gender differentiation is blasphemy.

Mt 7 does not over ride 1tim2;11-14

 

[stuart lawrence]

The OC applies as Jesus is the fulfillment of Law, NOT the abolishment of the Law (Mt 5:17). If you are claiming that the OT law was abolished and no longer applies, you are in error. While the ritual sacrifice of the OC was abolished and no longer applies, the moral aspects of the OC are carried into the NC as the law is now on our hearts and minds (Heb 10:16).
And like I already pointed out just citing a few examples throughout Scripture that those people who belong to God don't always obey and repent as you mistakenly claim. You must contend with the examples given in Scripture and not ignore them. A true Christian can always choose whether to repent or not - do you disagree?
You have not addressed James 2 have you? Instead you offer Rom 4:6 as a proof-text which ironically proves my point instead of yours. This verse quotes David in the OT Ps 32:1-5 where David confesses and repents of his sin. Righteousness/justification was credited to David upon his repentance. If David did not repent, he would not have been forgiven. In the same way, righteousness/justification is credited to us upon our repentance. If we do not repent, we will not be forgiven.

BTW
Instead of just quoting the letter, consider it.
A christianity where a person has truly been born again of the Holy Spirit, loves God with all their heart, and has the law in their heart, will always result in repentance. These are the people I am referring to. Think of the person you love most in this world. When you upset them/ act imperfectly towards them, don't you always regret afterwards how you have acted? Dont you allways apologise for how you have acted? You will have no rest or peace until you do so.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Something I meant to mention is confession of our sins. The Lord sends His Holy Spirit to live within us to give us power over sin (2 Pet. 1:3-4) and we also have self control to resist sin. To walk in holiness the Lord commands us to confess/repent of our sin whenever we do sin.

Heb. 12:14 says that without holiness no one will see the Lord. Holiness is achieved by confessing when ever we sin. When we confess, we are forgiven as 1 John 1:9 says.

The power of sin is the law 1cor15:56
Hence:
For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace
Rom6:14

 

[ChristianIssues]

It all depends of what you believe what the Gospel is? Is the Gospel a new list of to do's? Or is it the Promise of God revealed and fulfilled in His Son, Christ Jesus? This is where a lot of people get it wrong! The Gospel is announcement of who Christ is, and what He has done. This is good news.

I only know of one Gospel and that is the one announced by Jesus in Mark 1:15: "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!" Note that the words "repent" and "believe" are both Present Imperatives means that a believer must continue in repentance and belief.

John 6:38For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me. 39And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of all those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.

It's true that Jesus didn't lose any but Judas walked away as we are told in John 17.

But tell me, what is your interpretation of the parable I mentioned in the OP - Luke 12:42-46. To me, it clearly says that a servant can be rewarded or condemned when Jesus returns.

 

[ChristianIssues]

He's so awesome!

It's reminding me of this: Revelation 2:21

God gives us time to repent! Even in the above state!

He is truly God.

Amen. The best thing to do is to confess your sin as soon as the Holy Spirit convicts you. You will know His conviction as it takes away your peace and makes you feel guilty. As soon as you confess it you will feel God's peace return.

 

[JIMINZ]

I believe it is possible for a heaven bound Christian to end up condemned. There are many passages describing this but I believe the parable in Luke 12:42-46 is one of the clearest.

In this parable, the word "manager" is singular, showing that there is only one faithful and wise manager being spoken of. Looking at the verses, we have:

a) V.42 tells us of a faithful and wise manager (obviously a saved man) who is put in charge while the master (Jesus) is away.

b) Vs. 43-44 say that the servant will be rewarded and put in charge of all the master's possessions if the master returns and finds that the servant has remained faithful.

c) Vs. 45-46 then tells us that the same servant will be condemned and assigned a place with the unbelievers (in hell) if the master returns and finds that he is sinning and mistreating the other servants etc.

To say that the servant will be assigned a place with unbelievers makes it obvious that he was a believer initially.

To me, this is one of several parables and passages which clearly show that a Christian can be rewarded or condemned, depending on his actions.

Loss of salvation is a vitally important issue.

What do you think of this parable?

Hi there CI

I bring to your remembrance, when Jesus taught in Parables, the people did not understand them?

Your belief is, this Parable is in regard to a Christian losing their Salvation.

Therefore keeping in mind, the people being blind and deaf, what would be the purpose of teaching about Salvation to them when Salvation was not even available until Jesus died.?

My belief is your interpretation is incorrect.

Mat 13:10-15
10) And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12) For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13) Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14) And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15) For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

With that in mind, what would then be the purpose of this teaching by Jesus?

Be Blessed

 

[ladodgers6]

I only know of one Gospel and that is the one announced by Jesus in Mark 1:15: "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!" Note that the words "repent" and "believe" are both Present Imperatives means that a believer must continue in repentance and belief.


It's true that Jesus didn't lose any but Judas walked away as we are told in John 17.

But tell me, what is your interpretation of the parable I mentioned in the OP - Luke 12:42-46. To me, it clearly says that a servant can be rewarded or condemned when Jesus returns.

This is exactly what I mean. The good news is not repent and believe. The good news is who is Jesus and what He has done. People tend to locate their salvation in their response to the Gospel, rather in the Gospel itself.

 

[ChristianIssues]

Hi there CI

I bring to your remembrance, when Jesus taught in Parables, the people did not understand them?

With that in mind, what would then be the purpose of this teaching by Jesus?

Be Blessed

Parables were understood by some. The following is a little long but I can't really condense it...

Parables are spiritual truths expressed in common, natural terms and are as much a part of establishing doctrine as any other part of scripture (If not then Jesus wasted a lot of time telling His disciples nice, spiritually vague stories). As a result of the lack of faith, and hardheartedness of the people, Jesus chose to use parables because they have the double purpose of revealing and concealing - revealing to those with faith and concealing from the hardhearted as the following show:

a) In Mat_13:10-12, Jesus tells us that through the parables the mysteries of the kingdom are revealed.
b) In Mat_13:13-15, He said that parables conceal things from those who are wilfully blind, deaf and hardhearted.
c) In Mat_13:16, regarding the parables, He said, "But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear."
c) In Mat_11:25, He said that things are hidden from the wise and learned and revealed to the little children.

If we consider parables to be of little value, or second class in establishing doctrine, then we being dismissive of the very method Jesus chose to reveal spiritual truths to those who are willing to listen.

 

[ChristianIssues]

This is exactly what I mean. The good news is not repent and believe. The good news is who is Jesus and what He has done. People tend to locate their salvation in their response to the Gospel, rather in the Gospel itself.

I think you have missed Mark 1:15: "The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!"

 

[ladodgers6]

I think you have missed Mark 1:15: "The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!"

Why didn't reply to the passage of Christ. Where He says that He is here to do His Father's Will, and that He will not Los any of whom the Father gave him.

What does this mean?

Here's another passage. Hope you will elaborate on this too?

21Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

What people fail to see Newbie. Is that Redemption is accomplished by Christ and Him Alone! We repent & believe, because even this is God's gift to us! All of this is from God, because He loves us, and sent His Son to save us! Its All of Grace that we are saved. We repent because we are new creations in Christ to do good works, to produce fruits, without fearing about being under the curse of the Law, that judges our deeds.

Romans 10
1Brothers,a my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. 2For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

1 Cor. 1
30And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

 

[ChristianIssues]

We can go back and forth on this verse and that but the object of my posting this OP was to see how OSAS people have to say about the parable in Luke 12:42-46.

I see this parable as talking about ONE servant who faces two options: Rewards for faithfulness or condemnation for going into sin.

How do you see this parable. I hope you haven't already answered this. I have had too many replies to know what I have said to whom.

 

[ladodgers6]

We can go back and forth on this verse and that but the object of my posting this OP was to see how OSAS people have to say about the parable in Luke 12:42-46.

I see this parable as talking about ONE servant who faces two options: Rewards for faithfulness or condemnation for going into sin.

How do you see this parable. I hope you haven't already answered this. I have had too many replies to know what I have said to whom.

One thing in Reformed thinking, we do not make doctrines out of parables. But I will respond to your question. This is parable about perseverance. A believer does not use the Gospel for a license to sin. As believers we repent and live to God, because we are dead to sin. True believers will endured to the end, because God fulfilled that plan of redemption in His Son. Christ did not die in vain. This is precisely why we persevere. Because God put His Spirit in our hearts, and guarantees and seals us with the Holy Spirit.

This is the Promise, Oath, Covenant of Grace God made with Abraham. Here a OT passages for you to look over:

Ezekiel 36: 24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. 28You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Look at God's oath here. A promise that He will do. A Covenant of Redemption that God will carry out. How many times does God say "I WILL"?

Why does God do all of this? Why does God say "I WILL"? Before I give you the answer, I am curious to what you will write. Please reply to this.

And to the other passages I provided in my earlier posts.

 

[ChristianIssues]

One thing in Reformed thinking, we do not make doctrines out of parables.

That is a shame really as Jesus said that He used parables -
1) To reveal the mysteries of the kingdom - Mat_13:10-12.
2) Conceal things from those who are wilfully blind, deaf and hardhearted - Mat_13:13-15.
3) Bless those who see and hear through the parables - Mat_13:16.

Jesus chose to use parables because they have the double purpose of revealing and concealing - revealing to those with faith and concealing from the hardhearted.

If we consider parables to be of little value, or second class in establishing doctrine, then we being dismissive of the very method Jesus chose to reveal spiritual truths to those who are willing to listen.

But I will respond to your question. This is parable about perseverance.

I can agree with that statement but tell me what happens to the servant if Jesus returns and finds that he hasn't persevered but beating servants and getting drunk? Please bear in mind that there is only ONE servant in the parable.

 

[Oldmantook]

This is obviously false. The sheep did nothing but get itself lost. It was the shepherd who rescued the sheep. And he did this because it was his sheep. We are just like the lost sheep in that we cannot act to save ourselves; we are "dead in trespasses and sins" (Eph. 2:1); God must save us, just like the shepherd must seek out and save the sheep. God does this by bringing us to repentance (2 Ti. 2:25) He illuminates our understanding; He convicts us of our sin; He softens our hearts and minds to His truth; He gives us new life in Christ. And when God does all this and brings one of His "lost sheep" eternally into His fold, heaven rejoices. Clearly, then, the parable has nothing whatever to do with being saved and lost.

If you wish to argue with Jesus' explanation, that is certainly your prerogative. I'll take him at his word.

 

[Oldmantook]

That same verse says the obedient 99 have no need of repentance at all too. So maybe your 'participle' understanding is equal to your own anthropocentric misunderstanding of the purpose of sheep. You see I live in cattle/sheep country. And the sheep are raised for two reasons, only...fleecing and slaughtering.

And the obedient ones die of old age? The verse you're looking for is Romans 8:36

It is obvious that your understanding of the Greek language is lacking. Metanoias in reference to the obedient 99 is a noun - not a participle. Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with the Greek so you can correctly understand the scriptures. FYI I raise cattle and if one of my cows had a habit of jumping/breaking my fences, it would be shot and end up in the freezer.
The obedient ones have eternal life. The disobedient ones end up in the lake of fire. Rom 8:36 is irrelevant. The verse you're looking for is Rom 8:13.