Seventh day observance compulsory?

BobRyan

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Nevertheless Revelation 21:1-6 does not say that the new earth is eternal.

If you check this update --
19 minutes ago #418

You will find the words you are looking for - regarding the New Earth.

The New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven - God dwells among men and they reign with Him forever and ever. Nothing in those two chapters says "temporarily" and I point to an example of Bible commentaries also admitting to this detail.

Let us say for the sake of argument that we suppose that "forever and ever" meant "temporarily" - still the New Earth event is long after the cross by every measure... AND it lasts "Forever and ever" no matter who temporary you might suppose that to be - and it involves ALL mankind. Which Isaiah says are coming before God on two regular cycles for worship and one of those cycles is "from Sabbath to Sabbath - shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

And the fact that this is future to our day - means we have not yet "out grown it" rather we are still destined for it

The only reason "ALL mankind" do not do this today - OR before the New Earth event - because we have not reached the point where ALL mankind are fully informed on this point and obedient to it.
 
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bugkiller

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Acts 17:11 "They studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - WERE SO"

Acts 18:4 "EVERY Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles gathered in the synagogues to hear GOSPEL preaching.

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make VOID the Law of God by our faith? God forbid!! In fact we establish the LAW of God"

Rom 2:13-16 "It is NOT the hearers of the LAW that ARE just before God - but the DOERS of the LAW WILL Be justiFIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge"
Did I miss where they disagreed with Paul? Now post Eph 6 and ignore Roman 7:6.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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This thread is over a month old and has more than 400 posts. I have been on it less than 30 minutes. I have a question - which post opposing the Sabbath that have been posted to Gingerbeer by someone else here - do these texts in the few posts of mine given in the last few minutes... not address??

I would really like to know.
Since you asked - NONE.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Romans 2
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.
So you then teach a Christian becomes and is part of Israel obligated tot he law. The problem this same letter to the Romans says even the Jew is not obligated to the law in in 7:6. Paul does use the word "we" in his statement.

bugkiller
 
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BobRyan

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You may play as fast and loose with the scriptures as you like but the passage does not say that the new earth is eternal. That's just a fact.

1. I show the "Forever and ever" statement in the text - and I show that Bible commentaries also affirm this basic Bible detail.

2. And I also offer this alternative for those who reject the basics given in point 1 above.

Nothing in those two chapters says "temporarily" and I point to an example of Bible commentaries also admitting to this detail. They do say by contrast 'forever and ever".

Let us say for the sake of argument that we suppose that "forever and ever" meant "temporarily" - still the New Earth event is long after the cross by every measure... AND it lasts "Forever and ever" no matter who temporary you might suppose that to be - and it involves ALL mankind. Which Isaiah says are coming before God on two regular cycles for worship and one of those cycles is "from Sabbath to Sabbath - shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

And the fact that this is future to our day - means we have not yet "out grown it" rather we are still destined for it

The only reason "ALL mankind" do not do this today - OR before the New Earth event - because we have not reached the point where ALL mankind are fully informed on this point and obedient to it

=============================

That is the part above that you could address even holding to your view that "forever and ever" means 'temporary'.
 
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BobRyan

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Bob there is still nothing in Isa 66:23 indicating anything "on" the sabbath.

Until you read the text and find that there are two cycles there - a monthly one and the weekly one and the same "from Year to Year" language as in "From Sabbath to Sabbath" is used in the Bible to mean once a year for example on the appointed date.

Here again we point to the "obvious"

  1. Exodus 13:10
    Therefore, you shall keep this ordinance at its appointed time from year to year.
  2. Judges 21:19
    So they said, “Behold, there is a feast of the LORD from year to year in Shiloh, which is on the north side of Bethel, on the east side of the highway that goes up from Bethel to Shechem, and on the south side of Lebonah.”
  3. 1 Samuel 2:19
    And his mother would make him a little robe and bring it to him from year to year when she would come up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.



Matthew Henry Isaiah 66:23

6. That the public worship of God in religious assemblies shall be carefully and constantly attended upon by all that are thus brought as an offering to the Lord, Isaiah 66:23. ... And they shall have the benefit of these holy convocations frequently, every new moon and every Sabbath, not, as formerly, at the three annual feasts only.


Isaiah 66:23

Jamieson Fausset Brown

23. Literally, "As often as the new moon (shall be) in its own new moon," that is, every month (Zec 14:16).

Sabbath--which is therefore perpetually obligatory on earth.

http://www.studylight.org/com/jfb/view.cgi?book=isa&chapter=066

Hint: these are not pro-seventh-day-Sabbath sources - they are merely Bible scholars "admitting to the obvious" bible details.

Just as we see in these examples - when it comes to all TEN of the TEN Commandments included in the moral law of God - written on the heart and mind under the NEW Covenant.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.
 
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BobRyan

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I don't know of any Bible commentary/scholar claiming that the New Earth is "temporary" -

Jamieson, Fausset & Brown :: Commentary on Revelation 21
"The remaining two chapters describe the eternal and consummated kingdom of God and the saints on the new earth."
from; Commentary on Revelation 21 by Jamieson, Fausset & Brown

Rev 21
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son


9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal.

22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24 And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it. 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it. 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

Rev 22

1. And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

Revelation 21:1-6 does not say "forever and ever"


Agreed - those exact words not in the first 6 verses...all the other details listed however - do make the point for an objective unbiased reader and I think we would both agree to that detail.
 
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BobRyan

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Case closed.

Case?

- as pointed out those two chapters (Rev 21 and 22) show that the New Earth is for all eternity "forever and ever" and this is a Bible detail not only admitted to by those who keep the Bible Sabbath as I noted -- it is Bible scholars - and specifically commentaries on those two chapters. Not "just me". I think we all knew that.

The details - matter.

As for the actual subject of this thread we have this ---

1. I show the "Forever and ever" statement in the text - and I show that Bible commentaries also affirm this basic Bible detail.

2. And I also offer this alternative for those who reject the basics given in point 1 above.

Nothing in those two chapters says "temporarily" and I point to an example of Bible commentaries also admitting to this detail. They do say by contrast 'forever and ever".

Let us say for the sake of argument that we suppose that "forever and ever" meant "temporarily" - still the New Earth event is long after the cross by every measure... AND it lasts "Forever and ever" no matter who temporary you might suppose that to be - and it involves ALL mankind. Which Isaiah says are coming before God on two regular cycles for worship and one of those cycles is "from Sabbath to Sabbath - shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

And the fact that this is future to our day - means we have not yet "out grown it" rather we are still destined for it

The only reason "ALL mankind" do not do this today - OR before the New Earth event - because we have not reached the point where ALL mankind are fully informed on this point and obedient to it

=============================

That is the part above that you could address even holding to your view that "forever and ever" means 'temporary'.

Because the Word of God is not merely some sort of "game" the actual subject we are discussing "matters".
 
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BobRyan

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This thread is over a month old and has more than 400 posts. I have been on it less than 30 minutes. I have a question - which post opposing the Sabbath that have been posted to Gingerbeer by someone else here - do these texts in the few posts of mine given in the last few minutes... not address??

I would really like to know.

There is an interesting idea - find the posts given in that 30 minute window ... pretty much on that same page and then try to find some post on this thread that opposes the Bible Sabbath, and that is not addressed by one of those posts.
 
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bugkiller

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Until you read the text and find that there are two cycles there - a monthly one and the weekly one and the same "from Year to Year" language as in "From Sabbath to Sabbath" is used in the Bible to mean once a year for example on the appointed date.

Here again we point to the "obvious"

  1. Exodus 13:10
    Therefore, you shall keep this ordinance at its appointed time from year to year.
  2. Judges 21:19
    So they said, “Behold, there is a feast of the LORD from year to year in Shiloh, which is on the north side of Bethel, on the east side of the highway that goes up from Bethel to Shechem, and on the south side of Lebonah.”
  3. 1 Samuel 2:19
    And his mother would make him a little robe and bring it to him from year to year when she would come up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.








Hint: these are not pro-seventh-day-Sabbath sources - they are merely Bible scholars "admitting to the obvious" bible details.

Just as we see in these examples - when it comes to all TEN of the TEN Commandments included in the moral law of God - written on the heart and mind under the NEW Covenant.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.
So why do you think that makes you idea correct? or either Matthew Henry, the Jamieson, Fausset & Brown Commentaries for that matter?

bugkiller
 
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BobRyan

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So why do you think that makes you idea correct? or either Matthew Henry, the Jamieson, Fausset & Brown Commentaries for that matter?

bugkiller

The Bible details in Rev 21-22 are pretty clear in their "Forever and ever" statement that the Rev 21 condition is not "temporary" --

The commentaries show that you do not have to be "me" to see this very obvious Bible detail.

ignore-all and Deny-all is not a solution, as I am sure we both would agree.
 
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listed

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The Bible details in Rev 21-22 are pretty clear inn their "Forever and ever" statement that the Rev 21 condition is not "temporary" --

The commentaries show that you do not have to be "me" to see this very obvious Bible detail.

ignore-all and Deny-all is not a solution, as I am sure we both would agree.
I read your case is from...to which you bolded.
 
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1stcenturylady

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The Bible details in Rev 21-22 are pretty clear in their "Forever and ever" statement that the Rev 21 condition is not "temporary" --

The commentaries show that you do not have to be "me" to see this very obvious Bible detail.

ignore-all and Deny-all is not a solution, as I am sure we both would agree.

I think I missed something. Why are we debating forever and ever. That's what eternity is. What about Rev. 21 and 22 is not clear?
 
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