Jesus is returning to reign on earth according to the OT prophets and His disciples

Marilyn C

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Moses died and was buried.

You are also ignoring the words of Jesus in Revelation 1:20.


All wrong systems of Bible interpretation are not exposed by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work.

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Hi BABerean,

Just thought I`d make a comment here.

`Then behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of His decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.` (Luke 9: 30 & 31)

Here we read of the Lord talking to two men, Moses and Elijah concerning what He was about to do - go to the cross. Then later we see these same two men at other significant times - the tomb and the ascension.

`And it happened, as they were greatly perplexed about this, that behold, two men stood by them in shining garments. Then as they were afraid and bowed their faces to the earth, they (the two men) said to them (disciples) "Why do you seek the living among the dead? he is not here, but is risen...` (Luke 24: 4 - 6)

`And while they looked steadfastly towards heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven." (Acts 1: 10 & 11)

Thus we see that these `two men,` Moses and Elijah knew of the Lord`s sacrifice, His burial and resurrection and finally His ascension into heaven. They are precisely the two men who will be qualified to talk to Israel in the tribulation, for they represent the `law and the Prophets,` and are a `witness` to the Messiah - His death, resurrection and ascension.

That is why they are called `witnesses.` What have they witnessed? - Jesus on earth, talking of His departure, His resurrection and ascension, plus speaking of His return in like manner. Who best qualified to speak of those things but the two witnesses - eye witnesses - Moses & Elijah.

Marilyn.
 
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Marilyn C

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Hi BABerean,

Just thought I`d make a comment here.

`Then behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of His decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.` (Luke 9: 30 & 31)

Here we read of the Lord talking to two men, Moses and Elijah concerning what He was about to do - go to the cross. Then later we see these same two men at other significant times - the tomb and the ascension.

`And it happened, as they were greatly perplexed about this, that behold, two men stood by them in shining garments. Then as they were afraid and bowed their faces to the earth, they (the two men) said to them (disciples) "Why do you seek the living among the dead? he is not here, but is risen...` (Luke 24: 4 - 6)

`And while they looked steadfastly towards heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven." (Acts 1: 10 & 11)

Thus we see that these `two men,` Moses and Elijah knew of the Lord`s sacrifice, His burial and resurrection and finally His ascension into heaven. They are precisely the two men who will be qualified to talk to Israel in the tribulation, for they represent the `law and the Prophets,` and are a `witness` to the Messiah - His death, resurrection and ascension.

That is why they are called `witnesses.` What have they witnessed? - Jesus on earth, talking of His departure, His resurrection and ascension, plus speaking of His return in like manner. Who best qualified to speak of those things but the two witnesses - eye witnesses - Moses and Elijah.

Marilyn.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Moses died and was buried.

You are also ignoring the words of Jesus in Revelation 1:20.


All wrong systems of Bible interpretation are not exposed by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work.

.
I think we will agree to disagree. I can see you are firm in your belief and have been pretty funny in labeling systems of Bible study that do not agree with yours as wrong systems. This is funny as I have stated the law of the prophets requiring 100 % accuracy is the standard I hold and that no prophecy is of any private interpretation. If you review the entire thread I have not deviated from those rules.


This impass we have reached is ok with me. I am done with this thread. God bless you

Parting shot Rev 11 is not talking about 7 candlesticks mentioned in Rev but 2 ,so every candlestick does not fit the type set in Rev 11 speaks of 2 olive trees the same as Zech 4. It is the right shoe that fits.
 
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BABerean2

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`Then behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of His decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.` (Luke 9: 30 & 31)

"]`Then behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of His decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.` (Luke 9: 30 & 31)

John also saw a vision on the Island of Patmos.

Much of that vision is made up of scenes from heaven.

Where is the soul of Moses now?


You are also attempting to turn angels into Moses and Elijah to make your doctrine work.

You are still ignoring the words of Jesus in Revelation 1:20.

.
 
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BABerean2

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Rev 11 speaks of 2 olive trees the same as Zech 4.

Using the Old Testament to interpret the New Testament instead of vice-versa often produces error.

Luk 24:27  And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (The whole Old Testament is about Christ.)

 
Gal 3:16  Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 
(The Abrahamic Promise was made only to Christ.)



1Ti 1:4  Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
 (The New Covenant is about Grace, instead of race.)


.
 
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Marilyn C

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"]`Then behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of His decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.` (Luke 9: 30 & 31)

John also saw a vision on the Island of Patmos.

Much of that vision is made up of scenes from heaven.

Where is the soul of Moses now?


You are also attempting to turn angels into Moses and Elijah to make your doctrine work.

You are still ignoring the words of Jesus in Revelation 1:20.

.

Hi BABerean,

God clearly delineates between angels and men, so when we read two men, then that is who they are. Also referring to when they were first mentioned we find that they are `Moses and Elijah,` and that they witnessed many things concerning the Lord which they will witness to Israel about.

As to where they are, God`s word tells us they are in the General Assembly in the third heaven.

`...you have come to Mount Zion ....to the General Assembly ....to the spirits of just men made perfect.` (Heb. 12: 22 & 23)

Note there is a roll call of these `just, righteous` (men & women) in Heb. 11 and notice that Moses is mentioned among them. (Heb. 11: 23 - 29)

Marilyn.
 
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BABerean2

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As to where they are, God`s word tells us they are in the General Assembly in the third heaven.

Where is the body of Moses, since he died and was buried?
They wept for him thirty days.
What condition do you think his body was in after the thirty days?


Deu 34:5  So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. 
Deu 34:6  And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day. 
Deu 34:7  And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated. 
Deu 34:8  And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days: so the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended. 


.
 
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Marilyn C

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Where is the body of Moses, since he died and was buried?
They wept for him thirty days.
What condition do you think his body was in after the thirty days?


Deu 34:5  So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. 
Deu 34:6  And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day. 
Deu 34:7  And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated. 
Deu 34:8  And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days: so the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended. 


.

Ah, but where is Moses` spirit?

Marilyn.
 
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Marilyn C

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Since his Spirit is now in heaven, and his body is corrupted from buriel, how do you plan to get him into a body in Revelation 11?

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And don`t forget Elijah who is also waiting in the General Assembly, (Heb. 11: 32) God will give them their bodies so they can be His witnesses to what they have witnessed of the Lord - His manifestation on earth, His death & resurrection, and His ascension. All these they witnessed and will be able to tell the people of Israel what they witnessed first hand.

Marilyn.
 
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Marilyn C

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And don`t forget Elijah who is also waiting in the General Assembly, (Heb. 11: 32) God will give them their bodies so they can be His witnesses to what they have witnessed of the Lord - His manifestation on earth, His death & resurrection, and His ascension. All these they witnessed and will be able to tell the people of Israel what they witnessed first hand.

BTW remember Lazarus, well when he died his body had started to decay, yet the Lord brought him back to life in his body. The Lord has power of life, (John 5: 26)

Marilyn.
 
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BABerean2

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And don`t forget Elijah who is also waiting in the General Assembly, (Heb. 11: 32) God will give them their bodies so they can be His witnesses to what they have witnessed of the Lord - His manifestation on earth, His death & resurrection, and His ascension. All these they witnessed and will be able to tell the people of Israel what they witnessed first hand.

BTW remember Lazarus, well when he died his body had started to decay, yet the Lord brought him back to life in his body. The Lord has power of life, (John 5: 26)

Marilyn.

Lazarus died again and his body has now decayed.
You have failed to provide the scripture showing when the body of Moses will be resurrected and united with his soul.


The timing of that event is found in Revelation 11:18 and is described by Christ in John 5:27-30.


Rev 11:18  The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth." 



Joh 5:27  and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 

Joh 5:28  Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 
(That "all" includes Moses and Lazarus.)

Joh 5:29  and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 

Joh 5:30  I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me. 



The Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.
This is proven by Christ returning as a thief in chapter 16 and also returning in chapter 19.


.
 
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Riberra

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The Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.
This is proven by Christ returning as a thief in chapter 16 and also returning in chapter 19.


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Revelation 16 and Revelation 19 are in chronological order ....they are tied .
REVELATION CHAPTER 16 KJV
Here the proof Revelation 16:14-17
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.


That will take about 40 Days to gather the world armies at the Valley of Megiddo

THEN few hours before the visible appearance of Jesus for the battle of Armageddon....

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Jesus will return at the 7 TH VIAL not at the 7 TH Trumpet...
 
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Marilyn C

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Lazarus died again and his body has now decayed.
You have failed to provide the scripture showing when the body of Moses will be resurrected and united with his soul.

.

Hi BABerean,

`I will give power to my 2 witnesses,...` (Rev. 11: 3) Here we see the Lord giving power to these two men which we have read about in God`s word, talking to Jesus on the Mount Transfiguration, at the tomb and at the ascension. These are the events that they witnessed and will witness to Israel. They represent the Law and the Prophets and with the power God gives we can clearly see that they are - Moses and Elijah.

regards, Marilyn.
 
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BABerean2

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Revelation 16 and Revelation 19 are in chronological order ....they are tied .
REVELATION CHAPTER 16 KJV
Here the proof Revelation 16:14-17
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.


That will take about 40 Days to gather the world armies at the Valley of Megiddo

THEN few hours before the visible appearance of Jesus for the battle of Armageddon....

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Jesus will return at the 7 TH VIAL not at the 7 TH Trumpet...

Based on Revelation 11:15-18, they are concurrent.

Rev 11:15  Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" 
Rev 11:16  And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 
Rev 11:17  saying: "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. 
Rev 11:18  The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth." 

.
 
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Riberra

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Based on Revelation 11:15-18, they are concurrent.

Rev 11:15  Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" 
The 7 TH TRUMPET is associated with the THIRD WOE .....JESUS IS NOT THE THIRD WOE.

here the order:
5 TH Trumpet [Revelation 9:1-12]= FIRST WOE -DURATION 5 MONTHS-
-Then-
6 TH Trumpet [Revelation 9:12-21] = SECOND WOE [timed to end at the killing of the two witnesses and their ascension to Heaven [Revelation 11:7-14]

Then during the events associated with the
7 TH Trumpet =THIRD WOE -Satan is cast out of Heaven Down to Earth ...WOE to the inhabitants of the Earth [Revelation 12:12] DURATION 42 MONTHS ...with the reign of the Beast Revelation 13...


Revelation 8:13 tell us clearly that Trumpet 5, 6 and 7 are associated with the 3 WOES ...

12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; that the third part of them should be darkened, and the day should not shine for the third part of it, and the night in like manner.

13 And I saw, and I heard an eagle, flying in mid heaven, saying with a great voice, Woe, woe, woe, for them that dwell on the earth, by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, who are yet to sound.
 
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BABerean2

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7 TH Trumpet =THIRD WOE -Satan is cast out of Heaven Down to Earth ...WOE to the inhabitants of the Earth [Revelation 12:12] DURATION 42 MONTHS ...with the reign of the Beast Revelation 13...

Chapter 11 is the end of the story.
The text of Revelation 11:15 plainly says that it is the time when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever". How long is "forever"?


In Revelation 11:18 we find the "wrath of God" and "the time of the judgment of the dead", which is explained by Christ in John 5:27-30.

The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson, which includes the birth and death of Christ.
Based on Psalm 2, He is the man-child who rules with a rod of iron.



Below we find angels that were cast down in the past and are chained now.

2Pe_2:4  For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jud_1:6  And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.



The Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.
It is a series of overlapping visions.


We have the Second Coming at the end of chapter 11, and in the "harvest" of chapter 14, and when He "comes as a thief" at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16, and when He comes in chapter 19.

Much confusion is produced by forcing the book into chronological order.
.
 
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Riberra

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Chapter 11 is the end of the story.
The text of Revelation 11:15 plainly says that it is the time when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever". How long is "forever"?
The 7 TH Trumpet is not limited to what is said in Revelation 11:15-21
It will begin with ...
Thy WRATH IS COME Revelation 11:18
The first thing that Jesus will do is clear the house in Heaven from its undesirable elements >>>Satan and his fallen angels being cast out of Heaven down to Earth...REJOICE YE WHO DWELL IN HEAVEN ...WOE to the INHABITANT OF THE EARTH
Revelation 12:9-12...
9 And the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world; he was cast down to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him.

10 And I heard a great voice in heaven, saying, Now is come the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, who accuseth them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony; and they loved not their life even unto death.

12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time.


The reference to Jesus AUTHORITY in Heaven and on the Earth is also mentioned in
Matthew 28:18
18 And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth.

We have the Second Coming at the end of chapter 11, and in the "harvest" of chapter 14,
The harvest of Revelation 14 refers to Jesus harvesting the souls of those who begin to die by beheading because they refuse to worship the Beast and refuse to take the mark.
 
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BABerean2

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The harvest of Revelation 14 refers to Jesus harvesting the souls of those who begin to die by beheading because they refuse to worship the Beast and refuse to take the mark.


The Harvest of the Earth (subtitles from e-Sword)

Rev 14:14  And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 
Rev 14:15  And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 
Rev 14:16  And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. 
Rev 14:17  And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 
Rev 14:18  And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 
Rev 14:19  And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 
Rev 14:20  And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. 



The Parable of the Weeds Explained

Mat 13:36  Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 
Mat 13:37  He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 
Mat 13:38  The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 
Mat 13:39  The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 
Mat 13:40  As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 
Mat 13:41  The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 
Mat 13:42  And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 13:43  Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. 


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Biblewriter

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All wrong systems of Bible interpretation are not exposed by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work.

.
Like - a fourth of the entire Old Testament?
 
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