Catholics, what exactly do you believe about Mary?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Evan Briggs

Active Member
Jul 7, 2017
108
114
33
Mesa
✟17,609.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Let's all remember this....

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
‭‭2 John‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
  • Prayers
Reactions: Gabriel Anton
Upvote 0

kepha31

Regular Member
Jun 15, 2007
1,819
595
72
✟44,439.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
In Relationship
Thank you for the response on this. However, I am asking for your understanding.

Because if we look up the definitions of the term "know" past tense "knew":

6. In scripture, to have sexual commerce with.

King James Bible Dictionary - Reference List - Know

We can see that it also means sexual relations with someone.

Also, if we look at other scriptures that use the term knew that are in same context we can see that it is used for the same meaning.

“And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Genesis 4:1; And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.#Cain: that is, Gotten, or, Acquired

“And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Genesis 4:17; And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.#Enoch: Heb. Chanoch

“And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Genesis 4:25; And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.#Seth: Heb. Sheth: that is, Appointed, or, Put

“And the damsel was very fair to look upon, a virgin, neither had any man known her: and she went down to the well, and filled her pitcher, and came up.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭24:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Genesis 24:16; And the damsel was very fair to look upon, a
virgin, neither had any man known her: and she went down to the well, and filled her pitcher, and came up.#very…: Heb. good of countenance


Thank you in advanced for your time!
Your point is Mary had other children, isn't it? Are you aware that every church.
on the planet believed her perpetual virginity until the 19th century? Modernist Protestant liberals introduced falsehoods and they have spread in Protestantism like a cancer.
"Mary had other children" or "Mary was a sinner" has been popularized in the last few decades because its fashionable.
This link uses a "Bible-alone" approach that dismantles the "other children" theory.
Jesus Brothers and Mary's Perpetual Virginity -- Catholic Apologetics, Philosophy, Spirituality
 
Upvote 0

Evan Briggs

Active Member
Jul 7, 2017
108
114
33
Mesa
✟17,609.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Your point is Mary had other children, isn't it? Are you aware that every church.
on the planet believed her perpetual virginity until the 19th century? Modernist Protestant liberals introduced falsehoods and they have spread in Protestantism like a cancer.
"Mary had other children" or "Mary was a sinner" has been popularized in the last few decades because its fashionable.
This link uses a "Bible-alone" approach that dismantles the "other children" theory.
Jesus Brothers and Mary's Perpetual Virginity -- Catholic Apologetics, Philosophy, Spirituality

Thanks for the response, as yes I am stating this because that is what scripture says.

In the context of what the scriptures I have listed above, what do you see?

Respectfully, please answer with YOUR understanding of what those scriptures are referencing.
 
  • Prayers
Reactions: Gabriel Anton
Upvote 0

Goatee

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.
Aug 16, 2015
7,585
3,621
59
Under a Rock. Wales, UK
✟77,615.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Divorced
One has to see things from how people conversed in Jesus time. As I pointed out before, Brother & Sister was a common term for non-siblings too.

Looking at it with a 'modern' eye is wrong. Things were different in Jesus's day.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Gabriel Anton
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Thanks. However, still waiting for you to show what ?

My goodness my friend. I have done that already to our friend. Again, there is no list in the Bible that I know of that contains the books in the Bible.

As I stated, the Bible was written by 43 men over a span of 1500 years. I do not know of anyone who needs a Bible verse of books found in the Bible.

I do not know why something so obviouse is special for you other than for some kind of special scenario that is important only to you.

It seems to me that what is of the greatest importance is that religious councils at no time had any power to cause books to be inspired, rather they simply recognized that which God had inspired at the exact moment the books were written.

Jews and conservative Christians alike have recognized the thirty-nine books of the Old Testament as inspired. Evangelical Protestants have recognized the twenty-seven books of the New Testament as inspired.

I am also sure that you know the Catholics include the Apocrypha. Now if there is some deep spiritual lesion there for you......then have it.
 
  • Prayers
Reactions: Gabriel Anton
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican

Paul met and saw Jesus.

Acts 1:15-17, 21-22...............
"And at this time Peter stood up in the midst of the brethren, a gathering of about one hundred and twenty persons was there together, and said, Brethren, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. For he was counted among us, and received his portion in this ministry . . . It is therefore necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us– beginning with the baptism of John, until the day that He was taken up from us–one of these should become a witness with us of His resurrection."

That is not an interpretation but the clear words of Peter.

Peter is speaking and he is giving the qualifications needed to be an apostle. If you recall, Judas is dead, and so there are only eleven apostles and not twelve. What is Peter talking about? He is telling them how to select a new apostle to replace Judas. Peter says , “It is therefore necessary . . . ” and then gives the qualifications that such a man must satisfy in order to be an apostle. Peter said that only men who had been with Jesus from His baptism until He returned to heaven could be a candidate for an apostle.

What then of Paul if that is your point. Now the scriptures do not tell us if he was with Jesus from the beginning. Paul only tells us that he had seen Jesus.

1 Corth. 9:1............
"Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?

Paul was appointed an apostle by our Lord in 2 Tim. 1:11........
". . . for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher." (NASB) 2 Tim. 1:11

When did Paul see Jesus? Did he see Jesus on the Damascus road as you are suggesting in Acts 9:1-8, or during Jesus’ ministry? It is most likely that Paul saw Jesus during His earthly ministry and on the Damascus road. Later in Galatians 2 and 2 Peter 3:15-16 we find that the other apostles agreed that Paul was an apostle too!

So are they all lieing?????

An apostle is a man who saw Jesus while He was here on this earth. Therefore, it is not possible for a man to be an apostle today. Jesus’ earthly ministry stopped 2,000 years ago. This means that no one living today has seen Jesus during His earthly ministry. Peter in Acts 1:22-26 and Paul also tell us that a person was selected by God to be an apostle.
 
Last edited:
  • Prayers
Reactions: Gabriel Anton
Upvote 0

Tangible

Decision Theology = Ex Opere Operato
May 29, 2009
9,837
1,416
cruce tectum
Visit site
✟59,743.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
you said...............
"Jesus is no longer in the manger either. Do you put out a nativity scene at Christmas?"

My answer was NO.

Jesus is not in a manger.
Jesus is not is Bethlehem.
Jesus is not in Jerusalem.
Jesus is not on the cross.
Jesus is not in the grave.

Jesus Christ is sitting at the right hand of God as the ONLY intercessor for YOU and me.

Mark 16:19 ................

" So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God".

1 Peter 3:22 .............

" (Christ) who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

Hebrews 7:25......
" Jesus lives to intercede for those who believe in Him ".

1 John 2:1–2...........
"Jesus is our Advocate when we sin. Positioned between us and holy God, Christ declares our righteous standing because of His sacrifice and our faith in Him".

1 Tim. 2:5............
"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus".
My point, which you missed, is that a representation of our Crucified Lord is just as valid for a devotional aid as is the representation of the Holy Infant in the manger.

"Now we do not request more than that one permit us to regard a crucifix or a saint’s image as a witness, for remembrance, as a sign as that image of Caesar was. Should it not be as possible for us without sin to have a crucifix or an image of Mary, as it was for the Jews and Christ himself to have an image of Caesar who, pagan and now dead, belonged to the devil? Indeed the Caesar had coined his image to glorify himself. However, we seek neither to receive nor give honor in this matter, and are yet so strongly condemned, while Christ’s possession of such an abominable and shameful image remains uncondemned."

Martin Luther (Against the Heavenly Prophets, 1525; LW, Vol. 40, 96)
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Gabriel Anton
Upvote 0

Tangible

Decision Theology = Ex Opere Operato
May 29, 2009
9,837
1,416
cruce tectum
Visit site
✟59,743.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
That is called RATIONALIZATION.

You can and you are welcome to believe that all you want to. I have said and say again to you that if that is what you believe....then do it. Again, I am not argueing with you or anyone else. I am simply posting Bible verse that show and say that you might want to read them again and re-think your position as the Bible does not agree with your thoughts.

Now as you have observed, some our Catholic friends have taken office and become angry with these Bible verses and have focused their feeling toward me personally. They have called me names, been sarcastic and confrontational. But if you will read my posts you can see that I am not arguing but instead posting what God says. I do that again for you my friend.

Exodus 20:4-5..............
"You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me."

Now again........If it does not bother you to read those verses and then bow down to any statue, then by all mean go ahead and do what you want to do. Your stress and anger should not be with me as it was Moses who wrote the words God told him to write, NOT ME.
That's obviously talking about idols, not Christian devotional aids. If that were true, then your empty cross would be just as sinful as my crucifix.

Do you have any statuettes or figurines around your house? If you do, you must be an IDOLATER! (sarcasm)
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Gabriel Anton
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
My point, which you missed, is that a representation of our Crucified Lord is just as valid for a devotional aid as is the representation of the Holy Infant in the manger.

"Now we do not request more than that one permit us to regard a crucifix or a saint’s image as a witness, for remembrance, as a sign as that image of Caesar was. Should it not be as possible for us without sin to have a crucifix or an image of Mary, as it was for the Jews and Christ himself to have an image of Caesar who, pagan and now dead, belonged to the devil? Indeed the Caesar had coined his image to glorify himself. However, we seek neither to receive nor give honor in this matter, and are yet so strongly condemned, while Christ’s possession of such an abominable and shameful image remains uncondemned."

Martin Luther (Against the Heavenly Prophets, 1525; LW, Vol. 40, 96)

That is your opinion and you can do anything you choose to do. One of your Catholic friends posted earlier that Catholics actually do bow down to statues but then said it was OK BECAUSE IT IS GOOD EXERCISE!

If you believe that the depiction of Christ on the cross is a devotional aid and you choose to bow down to it....go right ahead my friend. I am not your judge. God has said NOT TO DO IT but if you know more than Him then go ahead.

Exodus 10:4-5...............
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me".
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
That's obviously talking about idols, not Christian devotional aids. If that were true, then your empty cross would be just as sinful as my crucifix.

Do you have any statuettes or figurines around your house? If you do, you must be an IDOLATER! (sarcasm)

We have many statues in our home. I have about 24 model Battleships and my wife has an extensive collection of Disney characters. BUT WE DO NOT BOW DOWN TO THEM my dear friend.
We do not acknowledge them by making a cross on ourselves.

Where may I ask did you come up with the term............."Christian devotional aids".

Is that like a hearing AID, or a walking cane kind of thing.

Why do you think that you need an aid? Do you not have faith? Do you not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ?

The Bible says that bowing down to a graven image is SIN but all of a sudden it is now a "Christian Devotional Aid".

The Bible says that homosexuality is a SIN but now man call it "GAY".

Very strange don't you think???
 
  • Prayers
Reactions: Gabriel Anton
Upvote 0

Tangible

Decision Theology = Ex Opere Operato
May 29, 2009
9,837
1,416
cruce tectum
Visit site
✟59,743.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
That is your opinion and you can do anything you choose to do. One of your Catholic friends posted earlier that Catholics actually do bow down to statues but then said it was OK BECAUSE IT IS GOOD EXERCISE!
Well, that's pretty silly if true, but still not a good reason to say that it is sinful.

If you believe that the depiction of Christ on the cross is a devotional aid and you choose to bow down to it....go right ahead my friend. I am not your judge. God has said NOT TO DO IT but if you know more than Him then go ahead.
By sharing your mistaken opinions and misquoting scripture in attempting to limit my Christian freedom of conscience you are, in fact, judging me.

Exodus 10:4-5...............
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me".
Do you have any coins in your pocket? They have 3D images of men on them and are therefore idols. I suggest you stop and give them at the first homeless person you see.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Your point is Mary had other children, isn't it? Are you aware that every church.
on the planet believed her perpetual virginity until the 19th century? Modernist Protestant liberals introduced falsehoods and they have spread in Protestantism like a cancer.
"Mary had other children" or "Mary was a sinner" has been popularized in the last few decades because its fashionable.
This link uses a "Bible-alone" approach that dismantles the "other children" theory.
Jesus Brothers and Mary's Perpetual Virginity -- Catholic Apologetics, Philosophy, Spirituality

That is an absolute untruth!!!!!
I suggest that you find another Catholic web site.


Mary had other children is a Bible fact and not a denominational idea.
Mary had other children which is Bible.
Mary had sex with Joseph after the birth of Jesus.

The Protestant churches point to where the Bible says in Matthew 1:25 that Joseph "had no sexual union with her UNTILL she gave birth to a son Jesus". They take that to mean that after Jesus was born she no longer remained a virgin, and had normal sexual relations with her husband Joseph. The Bible also makes several mentions to Jesus having brothers and sisters (two of who wrote New Testament books).
 
  • Prayers
Reactions: Gabriel Anton
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Well, that's pretty silly if true, but still not a good reason to say that it is sinful.

By sharing your mistaken opinions and misquoting scripture in attempting to limit my Christian freedom of conscience you are, in fact, judging me.

Do you have any coins in your pocket? They have 3D images of men on them and are therefore idols. I suggest you stop and give them at the first homeless person you see.

My dear friend, all you have to do is ask one of the Catholic members of the validity of my comment. They know and they know who said it.

Not only that, all you have to do is go back several pages and it is still there.

I AM NOT YOUR JUDGE. Now you need to stop trying to blame me for quoting Bible verse that make you feel guility. That is NOT ME doing that but the Holy Spirit my dear friend. YOU are making your own choices.

Coins in my pocket or bills in my wallet is not the issue. I do not BOW DOWN TO THEM. That is the difference.

There is no such thing as homeless. There are lazy people who will not work and there are people who are running from the law and trying to evade paying child care, but not homeless. Try something else cause that one will not work.
 
  • Prayers
Reactions: Gabriel Anton
Upvote 0

Fidelibus

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2017
1,185
300
67
U.S.A.
✟66,007.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
As for "Sola Scriptura", YES I believe that is the best way to understand the Scriptures.

This is not answering the question I put forth to you Major1. I asked if you agreed that the practice of an altar call and reciting of the sinners prayer was unbiblical and a Protestant man-made tradition, and if you practiced these man-made traditions in your church? If so, do you even have an altar in your church?

" Sola scriptura" means that Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian. The Bible is complete, authoritative, and true.

Back in the day, when I too was Protestant, thought the same as you until the Holy Spirit led me to the truth of the Holy Catholic Church. Keep in mind, sola scriptura (bible alone) is a man-made doctrine and was never practiced until the mid sixtenth century. You say that scripture alone was/is authoritive and practice of the Christian. How about for the Christians before the bible was compiled in the forth century, what do you say was their authoritive for the faith back then?


2 Tim 3:16.........
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness”.

Again, like you, I too beleived this passage was proof positve for my belief of sola scriptura. That is utill the truth was shown to me by The Holy Spirit. However Major1, before my eyes were opened, I too claimed that 2 Tim. 3:16–17 shows Scripture is sufficient as a rule of faith. But an examination of the verse in context showed me (with the help of a very good Catholic friend) that it doesn’t claim that at all; it only claims Scripture is "profitable" (Greek: ophelimos) that is, helpful. Many things can be profitable for moving one toward a goal Major1 without being sufficient in getting one to the goal. Notice that the passage nowhere even hints that Scripture is "sufficient"—which is, of course, exactly what I thought, and Protestants like yourself think the passage means.


To go even a step futher Major1, There are even a few more holes in your argument. One of the largest of those holes becomes clear if you back up just one verse, to 2 Tim. 3:15. This verse tells us that the scriptures Paul is talking about here, are scriptures that Tim has known since his “childhood.” When Tim was a child. History shows very few, if any, of the New Testament books had been written. Which means Paul is talking about the Old Testament in this passage, not the New Testament! So, if you interpret 2 Tim 3:16-17 as Sola Scriptura believers like yourself do, then it actually doesn’t prove Sola Scriptura as you imagine it does. All it really “proves” is Sola Old Testament Scriptura.

Now Major1, since you have not yet answered the question Kepha31 put forth to you.... at least 5 times that I've counted, "show what verse lists the books belonging in the Bible?" and I've asked twice, maybe you would try and answer a couple of other questions that good Catholic friend of mine put forth to me when we were discussing the sola scriptura doctrine when I was still Protestant.

They were:

1. Who wrote the Gospel of Mark?

2. How do you know?


I am curious to see how well you'll do compared to me. (hint:I didn't do so good)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Fidelibus

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2017
1,185
300
67
U.S.A.
✟66,007.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
[QUOTE="Major1, post: 71481481, member: 391026"There is no such thing as homeless. There are lazy people who will not work and there are people who are running from the law and trying to evade paying child care, but not homeless. Try something else cause that one will not work.[/QUOTE]

I think late St. Mother Teresa and the Sisters of Mercy taking care of the poor and homeless in the slums of Kolkata would disagree with ya. Not to mention Jesus!


Sure you wouldn't want to retract this statement?
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Gabriel Anton
Upvote 0

Tangible

Decision Theology = Ex Opere Operato
May 29, 2009
9,837
1,416
cruce tectum
Visit site
✟59,743.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
We have many statues in our home. I have about 24 model Battleships and my wife has an extensive collection of Disney characters. BUT WE DO NOT BOW DOWN TO THEM my dear friend.
Well, you've just sunk yourself my friend. Disney is a satanic, pagan organization. Wishing on stars? Trusting in Fate? I'm shocked that you allow such rank paganism in a supposedly Christian home! These seemingly harmless "characters" are just little pagan gods, representatives of pagan talking beasts and unclean animals! Do you think it's coincidence that they use images of mice and ducks and dogs and other unclean animals? "Pluto" even bears the name of a pagan death god. And if Pluto and Goofy are both dogs, why does one go on two legs talking and the other goes on four legs and barks? What's up with that?

Joshua 24:23 Now therefore put away, said he, the strange gods which are among you, and incline your heart unto the LORD God of Israel.

Ezekiel 14:6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.

Matthew 7
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


We do not acknowledge them by making a cross on ourselves.
Well, that's too bad. Christians have been doing that since the beginning of the Church.

Where may I ask did you come up with the term............."Christian devotional aids".

Is that like a hearing AID, or a walking cane kind of thing.

Why do you think that you need an aid? Do you not have faith? Do you not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ?
Have you ever read a Christian book other than the Bible? Ever used a devotional book or a book of meditations? Do you have any Christian symbols in your home or in your church? Ever sang an hymn? Ever look at a Christian painting or drawing? Do you have any of these paintings hanging where you can view them and reflect on them?
heartsdoorsmall.jpg
7019990881_7410117369_m.jpg
jesus300.jpg


These are all things that aid you in bringing to mind what Our Lord Jesus has done for you and for your salvation.

The Bible says that bowing down to a graven image is SIN but all of a sudden it is now a "Christian Devotional Aid".
Genesis 31
And Laban said to Jacob, What hast thou done, that thou hast stolen away unawares to me, and carried away my daughters, as captives taken with the sword?

And now, though thou wouldest needs be gone, because thou sore longedst after thy father's house, yet wherefore hast thou stolen my gods?

And Jacob answered and said to Laban, Because I was afraid: for I said, Peradventure thou wouldest take by force thy daughters from me.


With whomsoever thou findest thy gods, let him not live: before our brethren discern thou what is thine with me, and take it to thee. For Jacob knew not that Rachel had stolen them.


And Laban went into Jacob's tent, and into Leah's tent, and into the two maidservants' tents; but he found them not. Then went he out of Leah's tent, and entered into Rachel's tent.


Now Rachel had taken the images, and put them in the camel's furniture, and sat upon them. And Laban searched all the tent, but found them not.


And she said to her father, Let it not displease my lord that I cannot rise up before thee; for the custom of women is upon me. And he searched but found not the images.


Has your wife hidden away her household gods from you? No! You openly admit that she proudly displays them in a place of honor! And you permit it! You are as complicit in her sin as she is -- if not worse! You as the head of the house are responsible before God for your family.

I will not listen to any criticism from a supposed Christian who actively promotes idolatry and has probably even PURCHASED IDOLS for his own wife!

The Bible says that homosexuality is a SIN but now man call it "GAY".
1 Samuel 4:18 And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy.

Very strange don't you think???
As strange as this?
a5dcab0e1c5978ea0273f42ed6184f70--frilled-shark-underwater-animals.jpg
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

kepha31

Regular Member
Jun 15, 2007
1,819
595
72
✟44,439.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
In Relationship
Thank you for the response on this. However, I am asking for your understanding.

Because if we look up the definitions of the term "know" past tense "knew":

6. In scripture, to have sexual commerce with.

King James Bible Dictionary - Reference List - Know

We can see that it also means sexual relations with someone.

Also, if we look at other scriptures that use the term knew that are in same context we can see that it is used for the same meaning.

“And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Genesis 4:1; And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.#Cain: that is, Gotten, or, Acquired

“And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Genesis 4:17; And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.#Enoch: Heb. Chanoch

“And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Genesis 4:25; And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.#Seth: Heb. Sheth: that is, Appointed, or, Put

“And the damsel was very fair to look upon, a virgin, neither had any man known her: and she went down to the well, and filled her pitcher, and came up.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭24:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Genesis 24:16; And the damsel was very fair to look upon, a virgin, neither had any man known her: and she went down to the well, and filled her pitcher, and came up.#very…: Heb. good of countenance

Thank you in advanced for your time!
The "until" argument does't work. It's explained in post #1098. Jesus having biological brothers is a recent invention and a false tradition of men. Tell me if you have a problem opening links.

It’s interesting to note that whenever Matthew mentions the Virgin Mary, he always identifies her as “Jesus’ mother.” (See: Matt 1:18, 2:11, 2:13, 2:14, 2:20, and 2:21, in which the author all but beats us over the head with the phrase “His mother.”) It’s unlikely, therefore, that Matthew is abandoning this point by later identifying her as merely the mother of James and Joseph: a secondary character, less important than Mary Magdalene. Taking all this into consideration, Mary the mother of James and Joseph and Jesus’ mother are apparently two different women. But first, let’s turn to Mark...
Jesus Brothers and Mary's Perpetual Virginity -- Catholic Apologetics, Philosophy, Spirituality
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Gabriel Anton
Upvote 0

kepha31

Regular Member
Jun 15, 2007
1,819
595
72
✟44,439.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
In Relationship
As for "Sola Scriptura", YES I believe that is the best way to understand the Scriptures.
" Sola scriptura" means that Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian. The Bible is complete, authoritative, and true.

2 Tim 3:16.........
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness”.
The Protestant error of "sola scriptura" is self refuting. The term "sola scriptura" can be defined as follows: "The Bible and only the Bible is the infallible rule of faith." But the words "only the Bible" can be translated into Latin as "sola scriptura".
Substituting this into the above definition we have: "The Bible and 'sola scriptura' is the rule of faith."

This shows that "sola scriptura" logically refutes itself because this principle must be assumed to be true IN ADDITION TO the Bible. As such, "sola scriptura" refutes what it purports to claim.

This is an application of Kurt Godel's Second Incompleteness Theorem from metamathematical analysis. Self-referential statements (such as the Liar Paradox of Epimenides or using the Bible to prove the Bible to be the sole rule of faith independant of any external reference) are notorious for making statements which are logically unprovable within the formal system that makes the claim. It is only by assuming a transcendental position outside the system under scrutiny that such contentions can be proven true or false.

In the case of "sola scriptura," the necessity of assuming the transcendental position in and of itself refutes the principle under question.
by Art Sippo M.D.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Gabriel Anton
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bob Crowley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 27, 2015
3,043
1,887
69
Logan City
✟753,940.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
... So, Catholics. What do you ACTUALLY believe about Mary?...

You've had about a million responses already, so I don't suppose one more is going to make much difference, but here goes.

When I first became Catholic after being a Protestant, the business about Mary went into the "too hard" basket for a while.

However I have a few comments to make, and I'll begin with one by my old PROTESTANT pastor, some years before I became Catholic.

1. His comments, put briefly about (approved) Marian apparitions were "They line up with Scripture", "There's been a lot of them", and "I think they're a judgment on a divided church!" Mary has been giving us some pretty tough warnings, but because the church is divided, a lot of Christians aren't taking any notice.

He also commented on Protestants and Catholics (and bear in mind he was a PROTESTANT pastor), that "When it comes to theology, Protestants couldn't agree how far to spit!"; "Protestants tell a lot of lies about Catholics and the Catholic Church", and
"Protestants are often arrogant about Catholics and the Catholic Church".

Those were his comments.

2. Personal thoughts - When Christ was close to the end on the cross, it's reported that He looked down and saw His Mother, and the "disciple who He loved", traditionally believed to be John. His next words apply to ALL of us, as John stood in as proxy for ALL disciples, whom Jesus loves. Christ essentially told ALL of us to take Mary into our homes as our SPIRITUAL mother, and He told His mother she was the Spiritual Mother of all disciples.

Christ wasn't making that declaration for two people only, any more than His declaration about Peter being the Rock on whom He would found His Church was meant to start and stop with Peter. He was setting up an office, which is still going 2000 years later, and it will continue to endure because Christ was the One who made the declaration. Christ's words are eternal, therefore his intent is eternal.

3. On the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption I think both doctrines are correct. God had a specific woman in mind from the beginning who was going to be the mother of His Son, and He went so far as to send an archangel Gabriel to declare her "full of grace". Otherwise Christ would have inherited a sinful nature from his own mother, and been brought up under the care of a sinful mother.

Ditto the Assumption, and she would not be the first person to have been "assumed". Moses body couldn't be found, and Elijah was taken up into heaven in a chariot drawn by flaming horses. Both Moses and Elijah turned up at the Transfiguration, and nobody else.

This doesn't mean Mary didn't die - it does mean she wasn't allowed to see decay. For some evidence of declared saints not decaying, see the attached link, but they were not the Mother of God in the form of the Son, a singular privilege indeed -

Incorrupt Bodies

4. Finally what is Mary's primary role now, when she's not turning up now and again to give us another warnnig?

I have a Catholic psychiatrist whom I see 2 or 3 times a year, mainly due to depression some time ago, but which has now lifted, so it's mostly a chin wag these days. He's a convert from Protestantism as well. We got talking about this, and his comment was "It took me years to work out where Mary fits into the scheme of things. Basically she intercedes on the behalf of those in Purgatory."

Which brings to mind the closing verse of the "Hail Mary", "... pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death."

It's also noteworthy than whenever exorcisms are carried out by Catholic priests, the one and only person never blasphemed by the demon or demons is Mary. Everyone else is fair game - the victim, the priest, the bishop, even Christ and God. But never Mary.

It seems God holds her in so much respect, He will not allow even the Devil to sully her reputation.

She's more than just a singular Jewish girl who just happened to be at her prayers when the archangel arrived,.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.