Do we lose our memories in heaven?

[2PhiloVoid]

"Only the pure in heart"?

Didn't Jesus say in the Bible that anyone who believed in him would get to heaven? Hitler was Roman Catholic. That would mean he'd be in heaven too.

Dear Sister Crystal,

Unless Hitler repented of ALL of the heinousness he perpetrated upon humanity.....I can firmly say he won't be making it to 'heaven.' And I can say this because that is what the Bible says.

If we are going to bring Hitler into the equation, then we need to look at his entire life, not just those early to mid portions where he claimed to be 'in the fold.' Let's remember that 'the Bible'--which in our case would be things said by Jesus and His Apostles and disciples--also says that we can 'deny' our faith not just by our lips, but by our actions as well. Hitler DEFINITELY denied the faith by his actions.....no ifs, no ands, no buts!

If there's one thing that really irritates me, no matter who it comes from (although for some reason it comes mostly from Skeptics), is when people bring Hitler up and claim..."but, he was a Christian! he was a Christian!" And as we used to say in the '80s.... NOT !!

2PhiloVoid

 

[Halbhh]

"Only the pure in heart"?

Didn't Jesus say in the Bible that anyone who believed in him would get to heaven? Hitler was Roman Catholic. That would mean he'd be in heaven too.

You don't really think Hitler believed do you? The "table talk" transcripts show he thought Christianity a barrier to his goals.

Christ said this --
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."
--John 3:36

-->"whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life"

Christ told us that if we love Him, we will follow His commandments.

He also said that only those who keep His commandments love Him. (John ch 14)

Put that all together, and you can surmise something, yes?

 

[mcarmichael]

Because we experience a lot of wonderful things on Earth. Calling it a "wretched existence" if anything shows how pessimistic you are. This world has plenty of great, wonderful, amazing, fun-filled things that I don't want to lose if we're brainwashed in heaven to just worship God and do nothing else.

Hey, have you ever read 1 Enoch? It was preserved by the Ethiopian Orthodox and then it was also discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls. It isn't canonical, but it was quoted by St. Jude, and if you read it you'll see that it provides a lot of the background for some of our traditions.
Anyway, it goes into a lot of the stuff you're struggling with, so you might want to check it out.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Only the good memories in Heaven, So in Hell you will only remember your regrets.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Peace be with you.

We retain our memories in Heaven. This is from Catholic Tradition.

I know you are a sensitive and good soul, CrystalDragon.

Don't you worry about Hell. God is infinitely just and fair.

God is also sensitive and good just like you.

God created you so rest assured He can understand things just like you too.

I will think about what you have said because I think wise words should be pondered on.

I admire your compassionate and merciful heart, CrystalD.

I think I am in need of a few doses of your gentle and compassionate words to heal my hardened views.

Thank you, Sweetheart. You are a Great Blessing in CF.

God bless you.

This is probably one of the kinder responses I've gotten on this thread. Thank you.

 

[aiki]

If we have any sort of conscience at all, we'd feel terrible for those suffering in hell.

What if we recognized that their being in Hell was entirely warranted and perfectly just? What if we understood that their suffering was entirely deserved and appropriate?

But it's said that in heaven there will be no more tears, and we'll only be focused on worshipping God.

Well, what do you think that worship will look like? Singing the "Hallelujah" chorus for all eternity? That's not the picture Scripture paints of the afterlife of believers. We will be far more centered upon God - as we should be - but I suspect our life in the hereafter will be not unlike the life of Adam and Eve in Eden.

If that's the case, then if we discount Purgatory our afterlife options are either being tortured forever in hell or being brainwashed until we aren't "us" anymore in heaven.

This is your cartoonish version of what you think one can expect on the other side of death's door (at least, for believers anyway). God does not brainwash His children. They will see Him as He truly is and this will have an enormous and incredibly profound effect on how they live ever after, but there is no brainwashing involved.

Which if that's the case then God is not love and is instead a sadistic tyrant.

But what if we get to the Final Judgment and see that God's punishment of the unrepentant wicked is actually exactly what they should get? What if seeing God in all His fullness, in all His glory, power and holy perfection, causes us to realize how truly vile and wicked we are and how impossibly evil our sin really is? I think this is exactly what will happen. And when it does, no one will be calling God a "sadistic tyrant."

So, DO we lose our memories in heaven?

I don't think so. But our former life will be recalled within the new context of a far greater knowledge of God and the supernatural realm which will, doubtless, make a huge difference to how we see the past and what we value in it. For one, we will see our former life for the relatively insignificant thing that it is and understand completely why God's word repeatedly urged us to anticipate and prepare for eternity, to "set our affections on things above, not on things on the earth." (Col. 3:2)

Are we able to stay who we were on Earth?

Not completely, no. I think the revelations we will have in eternity will have a deep and transforming effect upon who we are. But this doesn't mean that we will cease entirely to be who we are in terms of our personality make-up and what makes us fundamentally different from everyone else.

If our memories are erased, then what was the point of us being judged for our actions if God could easily wire our brains to act a certain way from when we were young?

You've really sunk your teeth into this brainwashing thing! I don't see anything of the sort described in Scripture, however.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Only the good memories in Heaven, So in Hell you will only remember your regrets.

That's a nice supposition. I prefer it. I find myself in the strange situation of having all memories trend toward bad ones with time. I even begin to cringe at memories formerly considered good, eventually. By your claim, the one I prefer, I would expect to be a virtual amnesiac.

However, Christ retains his scars, lest we forget. Those aren't a great memory. I also would suggest that our appreciation of our own salvation requires an awareness of what we were saved from. Our appreciation of sanctification needs a stark realization of those who were not sanctified. Salvation from certain death is meaningless in a world where no one has ever tasted harm. I think we'll always shudder at the thought of the punishment we missed, and the thought of how close we came to getting smashed by it. The old lie to Eve that, "Surely you will not die," got its impetus from the fact that no one ever had died. The cure to Eve's temptation would have been a stark awareness of the reality of death. We need that awareness to get us through the next few infinite years.

 

[Synergy]

Here's the thing: hell is an awful place. I have things I could say on it but I won't (yet) for the purposes of this thread.

If we have any sort of conscience at all, we'd feel terrible for those suffering in hell. But it's said that in heaven there will be no more tears, and we'll only be focused on worshipping God.

By the sound of it, in heaven we basically lose our memories and personalities and are only focused on worshipping God and nothing else.

If that's the case, then if we discount Purgatory our afterlife options are either being tortured forever in hell or being brainwashed until we aren't "us" anymore in heaven. Which if that's the case then God is not love and is instead a sadistic tyrant.

So, DO we lose our memories in heaven? Are we able to stay who we were on Earth? If our memories are erased, then what was the point of us being judged for our actions if God could easily wire our brains to act a certain way from when we were young?

1 Corinthians 13:12; For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

When we get to heaven, we will have our memories, both the bad and the good, because all we be brought to judgement.

Though the memories will be heightened as we are no longer human

 

[LilShepherdBoy]

Here's the thing: hell is an awful place. I have things I could say on it but I won't (yet) for the purposes of this thread.

If we have any sort of conscience at all, we'd feel terrible for those suffering in hell. But it's said that in heaven there will be no more tears, and we'll only be focused on worshipping God.

By the sound of it, in heaven we basically lose our memories and personalities and are only focused on worshipping God and nothing else.

If that's the case, then if we discount Purgatory our afterlife options are either being tortured forever in hell or being brainwashed until we aren't "us" anymore in heaven. Which if that's the case then God is not love and is instead a sadistic tyrant.

So, DO we lose our memories in heaven? Are we able to stay who we were on Earth? If our memories are erased, then what was the point of us being judged for our actions if God could easily wire our brains to act a certain way from when we were young?

No memories will be erased. In fact, the opposite will happen. He will even reveal things we've forgotten, good and bad.

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 New King James Version (NKJV)
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

 

[Deadworm]

The OP's sensitively formulated question neatly ties in with 7 other urgent questions.
(1) Many Christians act as if this life is our career and the afterlife is, well, akin to a glorified static eternal nursing home or Disney World of varieties of worship. In fact, the Bible teaches that this life is more like a school and the afterlife is our true career. Given this fact, might our memories not need to be suppressed or go dormant just so we can rise to the new intellectual and creative challenges that confront new arrivals in Paradise?

(2) Exactly what do Christians lose when they are separated from their physical bodies? Active memory? Physical and cognitive skills, etc.?

(3) Jesus teaches that there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over 99 righteous who need no repentance. Moses and Elijah return to earth life to discuss Jesus' mission with Him on the Mount of Transfiguration. Do such traditions imply a conscious awareness of saints in Heaven of our spiritual progress on Earth?

(4) In the next generation after the NT era, Christian apocalyptic literature is obsessed with the question of how Heaven can be blissful for new Christian arrivals, when they realize that some of their loved ones are trapped in Hell. The apocalyptic solution (e. g. Apocalypse of Peter 14 [125 AD] and Sibylline Oracles II, 331-335 [150 AD]) is the discarnate Christian ministry of soul retrievals from Hell.

(5) ADCs (After-Death Communications) are commonplace. In one survey, 50% of people who have recently lost loved ones report ADCs from those loved ones, usually within the first year of their passing. These contacts, if genuine, seem to imply memory that survives death and draws the deceased back to reassure their families.

(6) But if such ADCs are possible, why wouldn't every deceased believer contact surviving loved ones on earth to comfort and reassure them? Why aren't newly discarnate believers taught how to safely perform ADCs? Can the psychic attunement, attitudes and beliefs of living and dead loved ones about ADCS decisively affect the possibility of ADCs?

(7) A past life review is a standard NDE feature, often even including loved ones who maintain a deathbed vigil and are taken out of the their bodies to share in their departing loved ones NDE! Do such past life reviews imply the survival of our memories in the postmortem state?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Second why would God let memories of this wretched existence remain?

I am fond of a quote from C.S. Lewis that I think is appropriate here,

"But Heaven is not a state of mind. Heaven is reality itself. All that is fully real is Heavenly. For all that can be shaken will be shaken and only the unshakable remains." - C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce

The idea that this life is--and this world--is ultimately irrelevant is Gnosticism.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

what was the point of us being judged for our actions if God could easily wire our brains to act a certain way from when we were young?

YHWH created us perfectly, at one time.
"Our brains" are designed the best possible way, as YHWH is Perfect.
YHWH did not design us to be robots.

What happened? As you found out, PEOPLE happened. PEOPLE lied.
Thus PEOPLE who we(all of us find out) trusted lied to us.
Thus PEOPLE who we grew up with lied to us (we all find out).

Yet no one can stop God from SAVING PEOPLE who trust HIS WORD.

TRUSTING GOD, God is TRUSTWORTHY.

Relying on God, by faith in JESUS, believing HIS WORD THE BIBLE.... Hope for all who seek His Kingdom.

Hope for eternal life. Before death. No chance after death. None.

True eternal life is knowing JESUS. Whoever Has the Son, Has Life(already on earth, in this life).
They are given a PURE HEART (already on earth, in this life, before they die).

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

And they wouldn't have to BE in hell if God created a "separation from God" place that wasn't "eternal torture and the exact opposite of love and more evil sadism".

I suggest you study the OT some... there you find that not only is God Love but God is Holy. When God dealt with people in the OT he would always mention his LOVE nature and how he has given the people a chance time and time again...but then he would mention how he's holy and will not tolerate people walking outside his statues or fellowshipping with the unfruitful works of darkness and we see how GOd dealt with some people in the OT and even NT in romans 1:16-28 for example becuase of his HOLY nature.


And we see how simple salvation is now in the NT ... just repent..be baptized...receive the holy ghost.... and we saw how many chances certain groups of people were given in the OT....so to me hell is justifiable considering the amount of time/chances we get to get things right even today even more so then back then.

And in the end it's not up to me or you to justify God's actions anyway just focus on getting saved or if you are saved staying saved complaining about God doesn't help with that.

"Only the pure in heart"?

Didn't Jesus say in the Bible that anyone who believed in him would get to heaven? Hitler was Roman Catholic. That would mean he'd be in heaven too.

This is why there are so many atheist...becuase we make being in a certain religion=salvation when really it's just following acts 2:38. You can be saved in any faith (besides a select few where the doctrine is just...to far gone and you'll never be able to read or discover the truth unless you leave it) so just using that as some salvation credit isn't gonna do it.


IK people in my own faith...and churches in my own faith.. and in the catholic faith (have a lot of catholic friends) that are just messed up. And IK people in good apostolic churches with true doctrine that believe in God...but they simply aren't living right or in the process of backsliding.



Additionally, believe stems from the Greek word pistou or whatever which means to believe but also show that belief or act on it.

Simply believing God and proclaiming a religion isn't' enough. Those that believed in acts... were baptized and received the holy spirit and repented. Those that believed in acts fasted and prayed. We read about the churches of Asia for example in Revelations and we see how many of the false ones still believed in JESUS... or claimed to...but their actions didn't fully reflect it. You can believe and be deceived. You can't believe but not act on that belief when the term itself involves action just like the term LOVE in the bible involves displaying love.

 

[Anto9us]

Examples in the Bible of people "retaining their memories" after death are kind of vague, and are in the Old Testament world where people didn't go to "heaven" yet; but rather "Paradise" was "Abraham's Bosom" (or so many of us believe)

Samuel's soul was called back from the dead by a witch at King Saul's direction - Samuel, even in death, knew who Saul was.

The Rich Man in the parable of Beggar Lazarus is in Hades -- and definitely wishes someone could go tell his 5 brothers about "this place of torment'

Even the repentant Thief on the Cross, is told "today you shall be with me in Paradise"; so that would make him on the tail-end of the "Old Testament setup of Abraham's Bosom/Paradise vs Torments"

Both these "places" are in hades - which simply means "unseen, the unseen world"

Exactly what is meant by "Christ preached to the spirits in hades" is not too clear either, and disagreed upon by Christians, but I believe in some form or fashion that there was a "harrowing of hades" and OT righteous people were taken up to actual Heaven -- it seems some even "came out of their graves" for a while after Christ's resurrection...

About the only thing to be certain of is that God will wipe away all TEARS from our eyes, that doesnt mean wiping away all memories, imo

 

[GirdYourLoins]

I dont see any scriptures that would indicate we lose our memories but there are some that indicate that we do retain them like the rich man and Abraham. Abraham clearly knew what he was taling about. Also the bible says we will know all things. How could that be the case if we didnt even know our own lives (and yes that does mean everyone will know your unrepented sin)?

I think this shows a lack of understanding of what awaits us in heaven. The four living creatures that carry the throne of God are a clue to what its like. We will be in the all consuming and overwhelming love and glory of God. Any love or compassion we have now will be completely overwhelmed by Gods love and we will respond to that, crying out in worship like the living creatures when we are in the Fathers presence. It not that we wont care, but that that any sorrow we have will be completely, totally and utterly overwhelmed by the love of God.

 

[CrystalDragon]

I dont see any scriptures that would indicate we lose our memories but there are some that indicate that we do retain them like the rich man and Abraham. Abraham clearly knew what he was taling about. Also the bible says we will know all things. How could that be the case if we didnt even know our own lives (and yes that does mean everyone will know your unrepented sin)?

I think this shows a lack of understanding of what awaits us in heaven. The four living creatures that carry the throne of God are a clue to what its like. We will be in the all consuming and overwhelming love and glory of God. Any love or compassion we have now will be completely overwhelmed by Gods love and we will respond to that, crying out in worship like the living creatures when we are in the Fathers presence. It not that we wont care, but that that any sorrow we have will be completely, totally and utterly overwhelmed by the love of God.

That part I bolded is precisely one of the problems I have.

 

[Northwest Savant]

By the sound of it, in heaven we basically lose our memories and personalities and are only focused on worshipping God and nothing else.

If that's the case, then if we discount Purgatory our afterlife options are either being tortured forever in hell or being brainwashed until we aren't "us" anymore in heaven. Which if that's the case then God is not love and is instead a sadistic tyrant.

I asked a friend a similar question years ago on a hunting trip. After reading and researching scripture for quite some time, we came to the conclusion that anything that we did in life that was not to the glory of God was probably considered a sin. And since our sins were washed away, those memories would not be with us in heaven.So we decided to bring our bibles with us on every fishing and hunting excursion, and shared the gospel with others, praised God for our experiences every night at our campsite, and I do believe that when I meet up with my friend in heaven, we will be able to remember our times together because we did so to the glory of God.

So if it does happen that way, if you are like me, you shared God's word as much as possible doing the things you enjoy, with the people you love most, so that you will be able to recollect those glorious times together in heaven.

As for Hitler, my reading of the New Testament leads me to believe that:
1. A person must hear the Gospel. (Did Hitler do this?)
2. A person must believe the Gospel in his heart. (Did Hitler wholeheartedly believe that Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament prophesies, was the sacrificial lamb for our sins, and was resurrected in a physical body that ascended into heaven?)
3. A person must confess Jesus is Lord (Did Hitler submit to Jesus as the supreme master, ruler and judge of the living and the dead, Hitler himself included?)

Even the thief that was crucified alongside Jesus knew of Jesus, submitted to him, confessed to the other thief and knew Jesus as God. The only thing the thief may not have known was that Jesus was going to be resurrected from the dead.

As far as remembering the "good or evil" things in heaven. Those memories will be revealed at your judgement, either at the Bema Seat Judgement if you are saved at the second coming of Christ, or at the White Throne Judgement if being judged after the end of the Millennium Kingdom.

 

[Rajni]

Notice all the vagueness though? "When compared to the next one"... but there's never any concreteness, any details, anything other than saying we'll be consumed by God's glory and focused on him which sounds more like brainwashing and erasure of who we are.

Kind of like the "Return of the Archons" episode in the original Star Trek series, where people were "absorbed into The Body" so all they cared about was the will of Landru, and worshiping Landru.

Another approach I've heard of, and believed myself for a time, was that people wouldn't remain hearbroken for the doomed because at that point they would see just how great of a God it was that the doomed rejected. Of course, that just raises the question of if God is really *that* great, how would there be any doomed remaining? Everyone would be restored, because that's how great He is.

Well I wouldn't object to having "all the crap from the past" removed, but I think most of us have interests that are outside of worship. If that's all we do in heaven than we stop being us. If it was implied that all our worst memories would be calmed or erased I wouldn't really have a problem, nut some points indicate that that we only will be focused on worshipping God and giving him glory and nothing else. THAT is what I object to.

This is unorthodox on my part (of course), but I think reincarnating from time to time would also break up the potential monotony of nonstop bliss 24/7 (if, indeed, that would get monotonous... YMMV on that one).

This also means that the "me" I am in this life isn't the only "me" I've ever been. It's just a role I'm playing in this current production. The real "me" exists independently of, and transcends, any singular role I play in any given lifespan. "All the world's a stage, and we are the actors..."

(As an aside, reincarnation is probably the only after-life theory that's actually gained some traction from a scientific standpoint. It doesn't necessarily negate the other theories that populate mainstream religions, however.)

"But Heaven is not a state of mind. Heaven is reality itself. All that is fully real is Heavenly. For all that can be shaken will be shaken and only the unshakable remains." - C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce

I like that. It reminds me of another saying: "Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. Herein lies the peace of God." (A Course in Miracles)

 

[mindlight]

Here's the thing: hell is an awful place. I have things I could say on it but I won't (yet) for the purposes of this thread.

If we have any sort of conscience at all, we'd feel terrible for those suffering in hell. But it's said that in heaven there will be no more tears, and we'll only be focused on worshipping God.

By the sound of it, in heaven we basically lose our memories and personalities and are only focused on worshipping God and nothing else.

If that's the case, then if we discount Purgatory our afterlife options are either being tortured forever in hell or being brainwashed until we aren't "us" anymore in heaven. Which if that's the case then God is not love and is instead a sadistic tyrant.

So, DO we lose our memories in heaven? Are we able to stay who we were on Earth? If our memories are erased, then what was the point of us being judged for our actions if God could easily wire our brains to act a certain way from when we were young?

I have been thinking about this recently after a conversation with an atheist about it. Obviously he was horrified that I would be anything but gutted at the idea that others would burn in hell forever and especially those I might have known and loved. I suppose it shocked me that I did not really care if someone who persistently and deliberately denied God went to hell. Indeed it seemed just and right to me.

The bible does say that there will be no tears or sadness in Gods presence and that makes sense as it would be hard to be down in the face of pure joy and pure love. But it does not describe the process by which we come to that point or the reasons we will not feel sad beyond the obvious we will be hanging out with God. I cannot believe that God will brainwash us as you described it. That is just not his style as he respects our freewill. Indeed hell is the proof that he respects our freedom even to the point of its extreme consequence. I believe that some of us will just accept his decisions about friends and relatives who burn and others will have to work through a lengthy and searching dialog with the Divine to get to that point.

One analogy most of us have experienced is that school kid who used to drive us mad in school. Personally now the incidents which informed my feelings seem less significant, sometimes humorous and mainly overblown. This is not a matter of recall but rather of decades of extra perspective. How much greater will our perspective be if we live forever!

 

[Hillsage]

About the only thing to be certain of is that God will wipe away all TEARS from our eyes, that doesnt mean wiping away all memories, imo

This is the very same point I made many posts ago. There wouldn't be any TEARS to wipe away if some memory hadn't 'brought to mind' something to cry about.