Focus of Christians???

[AACJ]

I think for those with the light already in them, there is no real need for the O.T., and I have never read it ,but it was Jesus when I was a child ,that truly inspired me .The OT has no bearing on my belief ,and knowledge of my Saviour .
I go into a bible forum discussion often, so know a bit about the O.T . now , but emphasis on that , instead of the N.T., means that the person is not really a Christian , as they have no inspiration from the H. Spirit, who only came after the resurrection, to provide all that we need to know about Jesus .
To be a christian, means you follow the resurrected Christ Himself , not others .

Points of relevancy (not meant to be exhaustive):

"1.The Law (as in all the OT) imparts wisdom to us so we can know the truth and please God.

Psalms 119:98: Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they [are] ever with me.

Psalms 119:142: Thy righteousness [is] an everlasting righteousness, and thy law [is] the truth.

Deuteronomy 4:6: Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

2.The Law reveals Christ.

Luke 24:44: And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Galatians 3:24: Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

3.The Law teaches us how to be saved by faith, not by the works of the Law.

Psalms 19:7: The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Romans 7:10: And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Galatians 3:24: Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:21: Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Romans 9:31-32: But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.

Romans 3:28: Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Note: the Old Testament saints were saved by grace just the same as we are under the New Covenant. Abraham is Paul’s favorite example of how New Testament Christians are to follow in the foot-steps of Father Abraham and be saved by faith rather than by works. “Abraham believed God, and his faith was credited to him as righteousness” (Rom. 4:3, 5, 9; Gal. 3:6; Gen. 15:6).

4.The Law encourages faith in God and obedience to His commands.

Joshua 1:7-8: Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it [to] the right hand or [to] the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest. This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

2 Kings 21:8: Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them.

5.The Law teaches us how to love God by fearing Him and keeping His commandments.

Deuteronomy 10:12: And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, (13) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

Deuteronomy 11:1: Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.

Deuteronomy 11:13: And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,

6.The Law teaches us how to be blessed and happy.

Psalms 1:2: But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Psalms 40:8: I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Psalms 119:1: Blessed [are] the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.

7.The Law reveals the sinfulness of sin and helps restrain man’s sinful tendencies.

Romans 3:20: For by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 5:20: Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound.

Romans 7:7: What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Galatians 3:19: Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
I Timothy 1:9: Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

8.The Law brings a sense of guilt and condemnation to those who willfully violate God’s Law.

Romans 3:19: Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Galatians 3:10: For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Galatians 3:13: Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:"

 

[AACJ]

In addition to the 8 points presented in my previous post, the OT demonstrates spiritual truths/universal principles (principles to be applied in all places/ times/cultures) through various biblical events. Describing a truth with words is one thing: demonstrating such truth through events is another and cannot and should not be separated from verbal instruction. We do not just spell out truths to our children--we also demonstrate them. Necessarily then, all biblical events in the OT are absolutely crucial in understanding biblical doctrine.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Instead of asking the body one should ask the head: therefore look at why Jesus walked and talked the way He did and you will better understand how He interpreted and applied the Old Testament in the New Testament.

Nothing wrong with asking "the body" thanks

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Points of relevancy (not meant to be exhaustive):

"1.The Law (as in all the OT) imparts wisdom to us so we can know the truth and please God.

Psalms 119:98: Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they [are] ever with me.

Psalms 119:142: Thy righteousness [is] an everlasting righteousness, and thy law [is] the truth.

Deuteronomy 4:6: Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

2.The Law reveals Christ.

Luke 24:44: And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Galatians 3:24: Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

3.The Law teaches us how to be saved by faith, not by the works of the Law.

Psalms 19:7: The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Romans 7:10: And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Galatians 3:24: Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:21: Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Romans 9:31-32: But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.

Romans 3:28: Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Note: the Old Testament saints were saved by grace just the same as we are under the New Covenant. Abraham is Paul’s favorite example of how New Testament Christians are to follow in the foot-steps of Father Abraham and be saved by faith rather than by works. “Abraham believed God, and his faith was credited to him as righteousness” (Rom. 4:3, 5, 9; Gal. 3:6; Gen. 15:6).

4.The Law encourages faith in God and obedience to His commands.

Joshua 1:7-8: Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it [to] the right hand or [to] the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest. This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

2 Kings 21:8: Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them.

5.The Law teaches us how to love God by fearing Him and keeping His commandments.

Deuteronomy 10:12: And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, (13) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

Deuteronomy 11:1: Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.

Deuteronomy 11:13: And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,

6.The Law teaches us how to be blessed and happy.

Psalms 1:2: But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Psalms 40:8: I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Psalms 119:1: Blessed [are] the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.

7.The Law reveals the sinfulness of sin and helps restrain man’s sinful tendencies.

Romans 3:20: For by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 5:20: Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound.

Romans 7:7: What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Galatians 3:19: Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
I Timothy 1:9: Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

8.The Law brings a sense of guilt and condemnation to those who willfully violate God’s Law.

Romans 3:19: Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Galatians 3:10: For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Galatians 3:13: Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:"

In addition to the 8 points presented, the OT demonstrates spiritual truths/universal principles (principles to be applied in all places/ times/cultures) through various biblical events. Describing a truth with words is one thing: demonstrating such truth is another and cannot be separate. We do not just spell out truths to our children--we also demonstrate them.

Great posts! It bewilders me when I hear people who believe that the law was somehow done away with when Christ died: that's like saying God made a game for us to play with a rulebook but, when His Son came and died the rules were all of a sudden done away with...sounds to me like people wanted to make up their own rules with this false teaching.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Nothing wrong with asking "the body" thanks

And yet we know the body receives it's commands from the head so why ask them what the head thinks when it is more logical to ask the head what it thinks?

 

[AACJ]

The Written Word is of the same essence as the Incarnate/Living Word. Thus, the OT cannot and never will die, for it is spiritually alive. And if it lives, then what is it's purpose? To be put on a shelf, to be cast into irrelevancy?

God forbid!

 

[Halbhh]

Points of relevancy (not meant to be exhaustive):

"1.The Law (as in all the OT) imparts wisdom to us so we can know the truth and please God.

Psalms 119:98: Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they [are] ever with me.

Psalms 119:142: Thy righteousness [is] an everlasting righteousness, and thy law [is] the truth.

Deuteronomy 4:6: Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

2.The Law reveals Christ.

Luke 24:44: And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Galatians 3:24: Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

3.The Law teaches us how to be saved by faith, not by the works of the Law.

Psalms 19:7: The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Romans 7:10: And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Galatians 3:24: Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:21: Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Romans 9:31-32: But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.

Romans 3:28: Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Note: the Old Testament saints were saved by grace just the same as we are under the New Covenant. Abraham is Paul’s favorite example of how New Testament Christians are to follow in the foot-steps of Father Abraham and be saved by faith rather than by works. “Abraham believed God, and his faith was credited to him as righteousness” (Rom. 4:3, 5, 9; Gal. 3:6; Gen. 15:6).

4.The Law encourages faith in God and obedience to His commands.

Joshua 1:7-8: Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it [to] the right hand or [to] the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest. This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

2 Kings 21:8: Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them.

5.The Law teaches us how to love God by fearing Him and keeping His commandments.

Deuteronomy 10:12: And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, (13) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

Deuteronomy 11:1: Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.

Deuteronomy 11:13: And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,

6.The Law teaches us how to be blessed and happy.

Psalms 1:2: But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Psalms 40:8: I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Psalms 119:1: Blessed [are] the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.

7.The Law reveals the sinfulness of sin and helps restrain man’s sinful tendencies.

Romans 3:20: For by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 5:20: Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound.

Romans 7:7: What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Galatians 3:19: Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
I Timothy 1:9: Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

8.The Law brings a sense of guilt and condemnation to those who willfully violate God’s Law.

Romans 3:19: Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Galatians 3:10: For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Galatians 3:13: Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:"

This all reminded me that Christ summarized the Law and the prophets!

Into one sentence. (the golden rule verse)

(or one could say into 3 sentences; the greatest command and 2nd and the golden rule verse).

He fulfilled the Law. One could say "completed" or giving a final form now that the law is written on our hearts.

As Paul wrote, we now are under the "Law of Christ".

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Great posts! It bewilders me when I hear people who believe that the law was somehow done away with when Christ died: that's like saying God made a game for us to play with a rulebook but, when His Son came and died the rules were all of a sudden done away with...sounds to me like people wanted to make up their own rules with this false teaching.

That is another topic for another thread thanks

 

[AACJ]

And yet we know the body receives it's commands from the head so why ask them what the head thinks when it is more logical to ask the head what it thinks?

Yes, but of course the other biblical writers apply on this ground of reasoning as well since they wrote under authority. The book of Romans spells out succinctly and systematically the continuity of authority and appropriate application between the OT and the NT.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

That is another topic for another thread thanks

Yes you're right. Getting back to your main point Christ said it best to put new wine into new wineskins and old wine into old wineskins.

 

[AACJ]

.

 

[AACJ]

I would recommend looking at
BY THIS STANDARD, by Greg L. Bahnsen, as part of any serious study on the relevancy of the OT for today's church. He is of the Calvinist persuasion (Arminian myself), and I do not agree with all of his conclusions and premises, but it is a great book. It's a free ebook.

I find it convenient to sometimes convert written text to audio and then listen to it while doing chores.

Can we upload ebooks on these posts?

 

[Dkh587]

The "New" should be understood through the "Old".

 

[Anto9us]

Rom 7:9
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Is Paul truly speaking AUTOBIOGRAPHICALLY here, or metaphorically?
How could one "brought up at the feet of Gamaliel" ever have been "without the law once"?

Oh, well, that's probably off topic as well.
But interesting.

 

[AACJ]

Rom 7:9
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Is Paul truly speaking AUTOBIOGRAPHICALLY here, or metaphorically?
How could one "brought up at the feet of Gamaliel" ever have been "without the law once"?

Oh, well, that's probably off topic as well.
But interesting.

Singer of songs. LOL.

 

[Anto9us]

In the 1959 movie SPARTACUS - Tony Curtis' character was "Antoninus - Singer of Songs"

I just spelled it using a numeral.

 

[AACJ]

In the 1959 movie SPARTACUS - Tony Curtis' character was "Antoninus - Singer of Songs"

I just spelled it using a numeral.

I remember long ago hearing a clip of that actor saying, "Imma singa of soowongs" with a New York accent. It's still funny.

 

[tturt]

Mentioned earlier - God killed

Came to these conclusions. Why do I think Yahweh needs to measure up to my expectations. Who do I think I am? He is God and He doesn’t have to explain to me His decisions. If He had to get my approval for His decisions, He wouldn't be God.

In references to focusing on OT or the NT, there’s hundreds - if not thousands - of quotes and references from the OT in the NT. Of course, the OT is about Him. One example is there’s over 50 chapters about Moses’ tabernacle and Solomon’s Temple. God wrote the 10 Commandments. It's so interwoven.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

As a church, should believers focus most their time and efforts on studying the Old Testament, the New Testament, or should there me a balance struck between the two?

What reasons would you give for your answer?

Some more words from Jesus:

"Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord. Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old."
-Matthew 13:52

It is made clear that to be properly instructed on the Kingdom of Heaven one must kniw the d and new testaments.

 

[Soyeong]

As a church, should believers focus most their time and efforts on studying the Old Testament, the New Testament, or should there me a balance struck between the two?

What reasons would you give for your answer?

The Bible is God's continuously revealed plan of redemption and I think putting a division between the OT and NT creates an artificial barrier that harmfully suggests that God is now changing or doing something different rather than continuing with the same plan that has been in place since the beginning. There is an incredible amount of continuity between the OT and NT, with the authors of the NT quoting or alluding to the OT over four thousand times in order to show that it supported what they said and to show that they did not deviate from it. In Acts 17:11, the Bereans were praised because they diligently tested everything Paul said againsts the OT to see if what he said was true, so the OT is how we know that what is said in the NT is true. It is how we know that we have fallen from righteousness and are in need of a Savior, it is how we know that God will send a Savior, how we know how to recognize our Savior, how we know what the character of the Savior is, and how we know how to have a relationship with our Savior by grace through faith. Having a correct understanding of the OT is critically important to having a correct understanding of the NT, so we need to focus on studying the Bible as a whole rather than on just specific parts of it.