Salvation Anxiety

[Rescued One]

Yes, but when people suggest demons cause illness it is discouraging.

Don't listen to them!

 

[Rescued One]

When a person believes (and is baptized) he does indeed pass from death into life. Absolutely.

But that doesn't mean he cannot pass back into death again, as the verse that I quoted from Hebrews (and many others) demonstrate.

And the verse I quoted is from Hebrews 10, not Hebrews 6. That moots the argument you made.

And if you study this carefully you should also see how it disproves your theory.

11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!

13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.​

You can see St. Paul speak about the gentiles being grafted in to God, but that if they do not continue in his kindness, they too will be cut off, just as the Jews were cut off for their unbelief.

And let's not forget where this deceptive belief that sin does lead to death emanates from:

3 Now the serpent was more subtle than any other wild creature that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree of the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” ​

Have a nice night.

I have studied it thoroughly, thoughtfully, and prayerfully.

 

[Wolfe]

Seems like everytime you come to terms with it, you ignore your revelation and continue in fear.

You have not committed the unpardonable sin.

As I've said.

If the one unpardonable sin (which there is only one mentioned) is turning your back once, and then it's over.
Then that is also saying that never believing at all, is forgivable, so long as you never become a Christian.
Which we know that you must believe in Christ, therefor be a Christian to be saved, so the latter is not forgivable, and it makes the former untrue.

One unforgivable sin, 2 sins that are unforgivable according to this line of reasoning.
So one of them is forgivable, and the bible makes it quite clear which one isn't forgivable.
It would be the latter, all must recognize Christ as their risen savior, or they have no salvation.

So in saying that, it eliminates the possibility of what you're saying is unforgivable, unless of course, God forgot to put the other sin in the bible, and worded himself wrong when he said there is one sin.
I highly doubt that.

 

[Christodoulos]

Honestly the fact that you're so afraid about salvation is a reason to doubt Christianity (at least it's a reason I'm doubting). A system that intimidates or terrifies you into it doesn't seem loving. You shouldn't be afraid about losing salvation. That's harmful to think.

Because someone may have struggles with their Christian life, is NOT a reason to doubt the Christian Faith. To suggest that anyone is right in their approach, when it is wrong, is harmful to them. If any person is serious in knowing the truth about the Christian Faith, and the God of the Holy Bible, then they best ask God directly, and if you are sincere, I guarantee that He will answer you.

"And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to Him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6)

 

[Wolfe]

Honestly the fact that you're so afraid about salvation is a reason to doubt Christianity (at least it's a reason I'm doubting). A system that intimidates or terrifies you into it doesn't seem loving. You shouldn't be afraid about losing salvation. That's harmful to think.

So it's Christianity fault, as a whole, that someones afraid of a part of it?
The fear here, of the lose of salvation, is unfounded, and misinterpreted, and what you say doesn't help to resolve the problem, it only adds doubt.

you're not looking at the whole picture.

Let's for a moment explore Gods point of view, he has made these creatures, these creatures do not like him, how does he make these creatures wanna go to heaven? Instead of Hell.
He doesn't, downplay hell, make it seem like not that big a deal to go there, he tells the truth, it's bad down there, not somewhere you wanna go, it is scary, if it wasn't, nobody would care.

It's the most loving thing you could do, if you have a child, you make sure you explain the full reality of the danger that lies ahead, anything less and you've not done your job as a parent.

With that said, as to why it appears that God scares people onto his side (which isn't the case but whatever), the inevitable question comes about as to, how is it loving to send people to hell.
And it's simple.

God doesn't send anyone to hell, it's a choice.
The bible says that everybody has the knowledge they need to get into heaven, they need only seek it out, and follow it. Simple as that.
It's doubt, like yours, and deers, that lead them astray, and the ultimate decision as to whether it's true or not.
Any realization other than positive is false, and is in line with a choice, from the point of disbelief, you have made a conscious choice to not go to Heaven, people would argue, I need more proof, when it's stated that the evidence is plain.

The question of whether babies go to Heaven or not, is not in my grasp to answer biblically, but I believe they do, because I do believe in a loving God.

The existence of Hell, is simply to punish sinners, everybody is a sinner, now how is it loving? It's very simple, Christ died to pay for your sins, and absolving you of your crimes, so to speak.
There's no requirements, or prerequisites to follow Christ, you simply do it.
And it's that easy, so it's clear to see that it really is your choice to go to Hell or not.

If God doesn't punish sinners, then he would be unloving, it's not fair to the people who have accepted Christ, no punishment means, nothing matters, do whatever the hell you want.

That's a really abridged, and sleep deprived statement I'll give, I can go more in depth later.

But I've seen you around, and you seem to have a real problem with God, and from the way you type, you almost look for reasons to be mad at him, and you also seem to ignore, or rather dismiss anybody who gives you answers.
The latter could be me mixing you up with someone else, as I often do that, but the former is true, at least from an outsider looking in, it seems you do have a real problem with God.

And that's what I'm trying to do, I'm not trying to vilify, or talk down to you, or anyone for that matter.
I, like pretty much all Christians, have went through this villainous God complex, mine passed rather quickly, as I have tons of time to think about this, and in a couple months I completely satisfied any doubts I would have, philosophically and scientifically, devoted literately all my time to it.

But I would like to talk with you, and we can hash some of this stuff out, and I can go in depth with what helped me come to a positive outcome, because of course the goal is to come to a positive out come I would suppose, because it would be quite sad to find out that God doesn't exist, and when you die nothing happens, making it negative.
So of course I would assume you want to put to rest your doubts, positively.

And I'm not saying I can get rid of the doubt, I believe that an absolute exorcism of doubt can only be done by God, all I can really do is perhaps shine light on something, or at the very least act as an emotional backboard that you can mull your thoughts with.

I would like to help you out though, if I could, because I did have some serious doubts, before becoming a Christian that I did not explore until I decided to become a Christian, and as I said I resolved mine quite quickly, and feel I can pass on what helped me to other people.

 

[mikeforjesus]

God seeks people's repentance and not to punish them. I recently have had and expreseed some harsh views unknowingly but I recently changed them too

 

[GirdYourLoins]

If you have salvation anxiety you may be in the group of people to which Jesus said "I never knew you" in Matthew 7:23. I believe there is a lot of religion in some churches in the world and they do not know Jesus as their personal saviour. Religious people teach religion to people in their churches. They are comparable to the Pharisees.

So do something about it. Romans 10:9 says if you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord you will be saved. So I would ask if you have anxiety about whether you are saved have you truly believed in your heart? Once you can say yes to that ask Jesus to fill you with the Holy Spirit as well.

 

[PeaceB]

If you have salvation anxiety you may be in the group of people to which Jesus said "I never knew you" in Matthew 7:23. I believe there is a lot of religion in some churches in the world and they do not know Jesus as their personal saviour. Religious people teach religion to people in their churches. They are comparable to the Pharisees.

So do something about it. Romans 10:9 says if you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord you will be saved. So I would ask if you have anxiety about whether you are saved have you truly believed in your heart? Once you can say yes to that ask Jesus to fill you with the Holy Spirit as well.

And if you don't have salvation anxiety you may be in the group of people to whom Jesus will say "I never knew you." A person does not go to heaven merely because he believes that he will.

 

[pescador]

26 For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

. . .

19 Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21 envy,a]">[a] drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

. . .

Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?’ 45 Then he will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.’ 46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

. . .

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

. . .

5 This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be made worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering— 6 since indeed God deems it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to grant rest with us to you who are afflicted, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 inflicting vengeance upon those who do not know God and upon those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, 10 when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at in all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. 11 To this end we always pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his call, and may fulfil every good resolve and work of faith by his power, 12 so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

. . .

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; 15 and if any one’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

. . .

33 “Either make the tree good, and its fruit good; or make the tree bad, and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. 34 You brood of vipers! how can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 The good man out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil man out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. 36 I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter; 37 for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

. . .

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

. . .

For he will render to every man according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.

12 All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.​

I'm glad to see that cut-and-paste works, but taking verses out of context to deny what the Bible clearly says about salvation just doesn't work.

 

[pescador]

Matthew 7:21...Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

That's right, no pretenders going to enter the kingdom of heaven...only those
who obey the God's Word.
the Lord said here: Luke 6:46
"Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I say?"

The key is being obedient to His Word/doing what it says.

If you're not yet a Christian. The gospels, including Matthew and Luke, were written to non-believers. (Matthew's gospels was directed at Jews. Luke was written to a Roman noble, Theophilus.)

Obedience is required by the law. The Holy Spirit guides us into all truth. Obedience is not required in the New Covenant. Instead we're motivated by love. Huge difference.

 

[pescador]

And if you don't have salvation anxiety you may be in the group of people to whom Jesus will say "I never knew you." A person does not go to heaven merely because he believes that he will.

A person goes to heaven because s/he has been adopted by God into his family. If you have accepted Jesus Christ as your savior you will go to heaven. The only way that won't happen is if you decide to leave God's family on your own.

 

[PeaceB]

I'm glad to see that cut-and-paste works, but taking verses out of context to deny what the Bible clearly says about salvation just doesn't work.

No, what you wrote about salvation is wrong and un-biblical.

 

[PeaceB]

A person goes to heaven because s/he has been adopted by God into his family. If you have accepted Jesus Christ as your savior you will go to heaven. The only way that won't happen is if you decide to leave God's family on your own.

Any you decide to leave God's family when you commit a mortal sin.

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

But I guess that is "out of context" too.

 

[pescador]

No, what you wrote about salvation is wrong and un-biblical.

According to you. I don't consider you a biblical authority but someone who doesn't understand salvation.

 

[DeerGlow]

.

 

[PeaceB]

According to you. I don't consider you a biblical authority but someone who doesn't understand salvation.

I could not care less what you consider me to be.

 

[pescador]

Any you decide to leave God's family when you commit a mortal sin.

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

But I guess that is "out of context" too.

Yes, it is out of context.

In Old Testament times people were kept in fear of violating the law and being punished by God. A priesthood was created so that sinners could confess their sins, offer a sacrifice, and be absolved. There is a modern religion that also operates like that, but it has nothing to do with the New Covenant.

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death." (And I am not including the addition found in the KJV and others; the worst addition to the Bible ever.)

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery."

 

[DeerGlow]

This thread seems to be getting derailed.

 

[PeaceB]

Yes, it is out of context.

In Old Testament times people were kept in fear of violating the law and being punished by God. A priesthood was created so that sinners could confess their sins, offer a sacrifice, and be absolved. There is a modern religion that also operates like that, but it has nothing to do with the New Covenant.

And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death." (And I am not including the addition found in the KJV and others; the worst addition to the Bible ever.)

Amen! When you commit a mortal sin you are no longer in Christ Jesus, so this verse does not help you.

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, indeed it cannot; 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh, you are in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God really dwells in you. Any one who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although your bodies are dead because of sin, your spirits are alive because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit who dwells in you.

12 So then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13 for if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16 it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

. . .
​

16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and do not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh; for these are opposed to each other, to prevent you from doing what you would. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. 26 Let us have no self-conceit, no provoking of one another, no envy of one another.​

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery."

Amen! I also agree that men should not try to justify themselves under the Mosaic Law, as explained in the letters to the Galatians and the letter to the Romans.

But that does not mean that under the law of Christ you can do any and every sin without repenting, and expect to go to heaven because of a one time profession of faith that you made on "that day" 18 years ago.

 

[pescador]

And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Amen! When you commit a mortal sin you are no longer in Christ Jesus, so this verse does not help you.

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, indeed it cannot; 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh, you are in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God really dwells in you. Any one who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although your bodies are dead because of sin, your spirits are alive because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit who dwells in you.

12 So then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13 for if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16 it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

. . .
​

16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and do not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh; for these are opposed to each other, to prevent you from doing what you would. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. 26 Let us have no self-conceit, no provoking of one another, no envy of one another.​

Amen! I also agree that men should not try to justify themselves under the Mosaic Law, as explained in the letters to the Galatians and the letter to the Romans.

But that does not mean that under the law of Christ you can do any and every sin without repenting, and expect to go to heaven because of a one time profession of faith that you made on "that day" 18 years ago.

Obviously. However, if you have received the Holy Spirit you don't do any and every sin unless you intentionally ignore the Spirit's guidance. IMO people who are saved and worry constantly about sin and repentance are focused on the wrong thing. You should be focused on God's love that is freely given to those of us who are dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. We are free from the power of sin! If you don't believe that then you need to pray and re-read the Bible, because that is clearly what it says.