Catholics, what exactly do you believe about Mary?

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Goatee

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It says that Jesus had brothers and sisters. That certainly does not say that Mary had no more children after Jesus and it is not a case of Scripture being silent on that matter.


Christ is not allowed to decide which person would be best to take care of his mother after he was gone from Earth??

It does not state that Mary bore any more children.

In Jewish tradition it was always the immediate next of kin that took care of the mother or father. I thought you would have known that?
 
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Goatee

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And that is the problem my friend!

It is my contention that Scripture alone is the only authoritative and infallible source for Christian doctrine and practice. Traditions are only valid if they are built on the firm foundation of Scripture and in full agreement with the entirety of Scripture. The following are seven biblical reasons supporting the teaching that the Bible should be accepted as the authority for faith and practice:

(1) It is Scripture that is said to be God-breathed (2 Timothy 3:16 Never anywhere is it said of any church tradition that it, too, is God-breathed and infallible.

(2) It is to Scripture that Jesus and the apostles appeal time after time in support or defense of their actions and teachings (Matthew 12:3, 5; 19:4; 22:31; Mark 12:10).

(3) It is to the Scriptures that the church is commended in order to combat the error that was bound to come (Acts 20:32).

(4) Infallibility is never stated as the possession of those who would become church leaders in succession of the apostles.

(5) Jesus equates the Scriptures with God’s Word (John 10:35).
Nowhere in Scripture does Jesus or any of the apostles appeal to the Jewish traditions.

(6) It is Scripture that has the promise that it will never fail, that it will all be fulfilled. Again, never is this promise given to the traditions of the church (Psalm 119:89,152; Isaiah 40:8; Matthew 5:18; Luke 21:33).

(7) It is the Scriptures that are the instrument of the Holy Spirit and His means for conquering Satan and changing lives (Hebrews 4:12; Ephesians 6:17).

The Roman Catholic Church argues that Scripture was given to men by the Church and therefore the Church has equal or greater authority to it. However, even among the Roman Catholic Church’s writings (from the First Vatican Council), you will find the acknowledgment that the Church councils that determined which books were to be considered the Word of God did nothing but recognize what the Holy Spirit had already made evident. That is, the Church did not “give” Scriptures to men, but simply “recognized” what God, through the Holy Spirit, had already given.

As A. A. Hodge states, when a peasant recognizes a prince and is able to call him by name, it does not give him the right to rule over the kingdom. In like fashion, a church council recognizing which books were God-breathed and possessed the traits of a God-inspired book, does not give the church council equal authority with those books.

My friend, you claim to be correct while the CC is not. That is your view. I prefer the view of the 'True' church, the CC.
 
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Albion

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It does not state that Mary bore any more children.
It says that Jesus, whom the Bible identifies as having been born of Mary, had brothers and sisters, so don't say that there is nothing in scripture which speaks to the matter.

In Jewish tradition it was always the immediate next of kin that took care of the mother or father. I thought you would have known that?
Jesus often departed from Jewish regulations and customs. I thought you would have known that.
 
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Goatee

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But the Scriptures do say that Jesus had brothers and sisters. IMO it is not brain surgery to figure out that that means the mother of Jesus bore other children. She was married to Joseph. God's command was to populate the earth.

And in your kind of reasoning............
NO WHERE in the Bible does it say that we are to repeat a "Rosary".

In fact.......nowhere in the Scriptures is there even a hint or suggestion of anything called a Rosary, yet the Catholic church teaches their usage.

Brothers and sisters, as i pointed out, were called that in Jesus's time, even when they were not biologically related! You fail to accept that.

Nowhere in the Bible does it carry the word 'Bible'. Nowhere does it say 'Holy Trinity'

Do you pray any prayers that are not written in the Bible? Or do you only pray the Psalms?
 
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Albion

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Brothers and sisters, as i pointed out, were called that in Jesus's time, even when they were not biologically related! You fail to accept that.
You fail to appreciate the point here. You claimed that the Bible was silent on the matter. It is not.

There is, as I laid it out in my previous post, certain information that undeniably bears upon this issue. You can argue for a different interpretation; indeed you have already told us that you chose the interpretation that you like best. You cannot also argue that the Bible offers us nothing that would guide us in deciding this matter...and certainly not the information that supports the most likely explanation.
 
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Goatee

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I have to disagree.

I did not give you any "Interpretation".

I simply gave you what was actually said and it requires NO interpretation.

Do YOU think that Paul fathered a child out of wedlock?????

I think you will find it is Peter not Paul my friend!

You say you read as it is written but decide to not read the scripture in 1 Peter as 'written' but the others as 'written'. Of course Peter is saying 'brother' and 'Son' in a loving way and not in reference to them being biological siblings. Much the same as scripture says about the 'Brothers & Sisters' of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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Goatee

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Just so that we are clear on the meaning of Triditions.

According to Roman Catholic teachings.......... “tradition” must assume its rightful place as a source of religious authority, along side of, and actually superior to, the Scriptures. A Catholic scholar says:

“It is an article of faith from a decree of the Vatican Council that Tradition is a source of theological teaching distinct from Scripture, and that it is infallible. It is therefore to be received with the same internal assent as Scripture, for it is the word of God” (Attwater, p. 41).

Our differences are set in the fact that IMO we must develop a deeper confidence in the Bible as THE inspired revelation from God. It is the full and final source of spiritual authority for all that we teach and practice and traditions can never change or overshadow the written Word of God.

All authority does not stop when the Bible is closed shut. The Holy Spirit lives on in us, in the church.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit would be there all the time:

John 14
Jesus Promises to Send the Holy Spirit

16 I will ask the Father, and he will give you another helper who will be with you forever. 17 That helper is the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept him, because it doesn’t see or know him. You know him, because he lives with you and will be in you.

25 “I have told you this while I’m still with you. 26 However, the helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything. He will remind you of everything that I have ever told you.


Matthew 18:16-18
16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The church does indeed have authority
 
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Goatee

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And since YOU brought that up, I am sure that YOU are aware of the CONTEXT of the teaching of Jesus from hence came the quote.

You did not post the quote you are using so you are leaving it to me to do so..

The one I am familiar with is Jesus speaking on the Mount and was teaching us that if we are angry with our brother, we are guilty of murder.

He was saying that if we break one Law we break them all. All sin must be paid for, completely! We either pay for our own sin or we accept the payment Jesus made for us.

Do YOU keep every Commandment?

Now having said that I would encourage you to be more understanding in your thinking.

Everyone uses “a” method of Bible study and interpretation, whether conscious or not. Some use what has been called the magic finger method. Others use the devotional approach, and make application before they are sure of what the verse actually means.

Yet others are content to let others tell them what the Bible means… missing out on the joy of discovering truths in the Word for themselves. Unfortunately some others have given up on Bible study altogether, having concluded that it is just too complicated. There are better ways to approach the subject of Bible study.

The best method of interpreting the Bible is to understand this Book as you would any other piece of literature or human speech.

It has been said......."The best interpretation of a historical record is no interpretation but simply letting the divine Author of the record say what He says and assuming He says what He means." (The Revelation Record)

I use the "Literal" approach first.
This is the way we communicate in ever day speech.

We ALL employ this method of interpretation in speech, in reading literature, in legal contracts, and in other forms of communication. Imagine if you bought a new car and the seller used the “spiritual” method of interpreting the contract? ($600.00 per month for five years doesn’t literally mean for five literal years. It means an undetermined length of time… and $600.00 means a large sum of money… which is to be determined by the interpreter.)

“To interpret means to explain the original sense of a speaker or writer. To interpret literally means to explain the original sense of the speaker or writer according to the normal, customary, and proper usages of words and language. Literal interpretation of the Bible simply means explaining the original sense of the Bible according to the normal and customary usages of its language.”

“The literal method of interpretation is that method that gives to each word the same exact basic meaning it would have in normal, ordinary, customary usage, whether employed in writing, speaking or thinking.”

I hope this helps you.

You do realise that you can indeed be fallible in your reading of scripture. Give a portion of scripture to, say, 100 people and you will get many different interpretation. Which one is correct?
 
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Goatee

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You fail to appreciate the point here. You claimed that the Bible was silent on the matter. It is not.

There is, as I laid it out in my previous post, certain information that undeniably bears upon this issue. You can argue for a different interpretation; indeed you have already told us that you chose the interpretation that you like best. You cannot also argue that the Bible offers us nothing that would guide us in deciding this matter...and certainly not the information that supports the most likely explanation.

'Most likely explanation' as chosen by you.

This is what i like as it gives true facts about how people actually lived in Jesus time:

Brother Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary
 
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Albion

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'Most likely explanation' as chosen by you.
]
No, just the most likely interpretation--thinking that brothers and sisters might refer to brothers and sisters.

Notice that I haven't insisted that your interpretation is impossible, just that you have one, that it is unlikely, and that the Bible does speak to the matter and is not silent.
 
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Goatee

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"One beloved or closely united with another in affection ( 2 Samuel 1:26 ; Acts 6:3 ; 1 Thessalonians 5:1 ). Brethren of Jesus ( Matthew 1:25 ; Matthew 12:46 Matthew 12:50 : Mark 3:31 Mark 3:32 ; Galatians 1:19 ; 1 Corinthians 9:5 , etc.) were probably the younger children of Joseph and Mary."

'Probably' not being 'fact'.

You left this out:

Bother:

 
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Goatee

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Brother. [N] http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/brother.html [E]

The Hebrew word is used in various senses in the Old Testament, as,

  1. Any kinsman, and not a mere brother; e.g. nephew, ( Genesis 13:8 ; 14:16 ) husband, ( Solomon 4:9 )
  2. One of the same tribe. ( 2 Samuel 19:13 )
  3. Of the same people, ( Exodus 2:11 ) or even of a cognate people. ( Numbers 20:14 )
  4. An ally. ( Amos 1:9 )
  5. Any friend, ( Job 5:15 )
  6. One of the same office. ( 1 Kings 9:13 )
  7. A fellow man. ( Leviticus 19:17 )
  8. Metaphorically of any similarity, as in ( Job 30:19 ) The word adelphos has a similar range of meanings in the New Testament.
 
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Goatee

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Also, people say that 'James', one of the 12 was the biological 'brother' of Jesus. But, if we look at this bit of scripture look what is said about 'James'

Matthew 10
The Twelve Apostles
10 And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity. 2 The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zeb′edee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;4 Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

Why is he called son of Alphaeus when people say he is the biological brother of Our Lord?

James was indeed a 'brother' of Jesus. As were all the Apostles! Not 'biological brothers'
 
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I use the "Literal" approach first.

So, if that is so, do you believe the 'literal' meaning of this passage:

John 6:53
53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
 
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