Catholics, what exactly do you believe about Mary?

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Major1

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Mary can intercede for us. Just like she did at Cana

My dear brother.......This simple, solitary, tiny thread of argumentation, lost in a loom of confusion, has been misused extensively by the supporters of the Catholic teaching of Mary as an intercessor for men.

The Bible story is very clear in that By going to Jesus with a request for help, Mary was not intervening on behalf of anyone’s spiritual needs; she only reported the situation to Jesus. Moreover, consider Jesus’ response: “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me?” (John 2:4). With these words, He emphasized that Mary’s concerns did not dictate His actions. Whatever He did in Cana that day would be according to God’s will, not because of human or motherly influences or desires.
 
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Major1

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Only in the sense that all the heavenly host pray the Father for all of humanity. That, at least, is the Biblical perspective.
Catholics have given the title of “Intercessor for the Saints” to Mary, although nowhere in the Bible is it applied to her. “Intercession” means “seeking the presence and hearing of God on behalf of others” (Vine, 1966, 2:267). There are only two areas in which Christians need intercession: salvation and prayers. If Mary is now, or ever has been, involved as “Intercessor for the Saints,” there should be ample evidence in Scripture.
 
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Major1

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1 Peter 5
12 By Silva′nus, a faithful brother as I regard him, I have written briefly to you, exhorting and declaring that this is the true grace of God; stand fast in it. 13 She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark. 14 Greet one another with the kiss of love.

Peace to all of you that are in Christ.


Is Peter saying above that Silva'nus is his biological brother?

Is Peter saying above that Mark is his biological son?

1 Peter 5:12 is simply a confirmation that Silvanus is a "Spiritual" brother. One who has accepted Christ as Saviour and doe NOT REFER to a physical birth.

Verse 13......."And so doth Marcus my son". Marcus is John Mark the writer of the gospel of Mark who WAS NOT PETER'S NATURAL SON but was his son in the faith.

1 Timothy 1:2..........
"Unto Timothy, MY OWN SON IN THE FAITH..............".

By your reasoning, Paul, the writer of more Scripture than any other Apostle, WHO WAS UNMARRIED ---had an illegitimate son.

CONTEXT my friend in the Scriptures and not denominational dogma.
 
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Major1

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Still dose not say that Mary bore any other children.

I have to disagree. It does not say that to YOU personally because you do not want it to say that.

I do not mean to disrespect you with that comment, but the truth is that when we like what we know, we are reluctant to learn anything different than what we already think is the truth, even when what we know is wrong.

Again, my understanding of all this is from the Bible and not any denominations teachings.
 
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Gabriel Anton

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Isaiah 35
Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened,
and the ears of the deaf unstopped;
then shall the lame man leap like a deer,
and the tongue of the mute sing for joy.

Isaiah 61
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, Because the LORD has anointed me To bring good news to the afflicted; He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to captives And freedom to prisoners;


The prophesies you referred to were explicitly fulfilled by the ministry of Our Lord Jesus, not by Marian apparitions.

Mathew 11
Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples and said to him, “Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?” And Jesus answered them, “Go and tell John what you hear and see: the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.”


I have already amply demonstrated from Holy Scripture that Satan can mimic the miraculous works of God in order to deceive and lead astray.

As I stated before, signs and wonders always accompany a message. The power behind the miracles is not established until the validity of the message is established. I would need to be certain that that message was from God, which is validated by its agreement with the prior revealed word of God as recorded in Holy Scripture. So I would ask two questions:

1) What was the message proclaimed by the Marian apparitions?

2) Does that message align perfectly with what God had already revealed to the Church in the Holy Scriptures?

Peace be with you.

To turn from our sinful ways and to live a repentant and virtuous life filled with the Love of God.

To Pray the Rosary for the Conversion of Ungrateful Sinners.

To know that Hell exists and that Sinners go there.



I want to let you know since you claim to take Holy Scripture seriously and use Holy Scripture for God's Purposes.

You better not have even 1 sin on your record after you have been forgiven and saved or you will be in trouble.

You know the story in Matthew Chapter 18, the part about the King and the ungrateful sinner he forgave?

It is going to apply to you.

It is written, "Do Not sin."

You sin, your Satanic.

If doing Miracles can be satanic, and can lead people astray, so can a person who professes adherence to Holy Scripture who then sins be Satanic and lead people astray.

Especially someone who professes to Worship God through Holy Scripture but fails to obey Holy Scripture.

"Do Not sin."

It's Holy Scripture.

Only 3 words to obey consisting of 8 letters.

Shouldn't be too hard for an Expert in Holy Scripture who seems to know how to ascertain the Will of God.


I claim to know nothing.

I claim to not know anything.

God bless you.
 
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Goatee

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If you want to believe that, I'm sure you will. And it's a charming and comforting bit of folklore, that's understood.

We all have good feelings about our mothers, and so we project all sorts of things in our imaginations when it comes to replacement figures.

Interpretation......
 
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Goatee

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1 Peter 5:12 is simply a confirmation that Silvanus is a "Spiritual" brother. One who has accepted Christ as Saviour and doe NOT REFER to a physical birth.

Verse 13......."And so doth Marcus my son". Marcus is John Mark the writer of the gospel of Mark who WAS NOT PETER'S NATURAL SON but was his son in the faith.

1 Timothy 1:2..........
"Unto Timothy, MY OWN SON IN THE FAITH..............".

By your reasoning, Paul, the writer of more Scripture than any other Apostle, WHO WAS UNMARRIED ---had an illegitimate son.

CONTEXT my friend in the Scriptures and not denominational dogma.

You see, you are quite willing to interpret the above passage as saying they are not biological brother and son! This is picking and choosing interpretations which suit you. Its wrong for the CC to interpret the way they do, according to you but ok for you to interpret the way 'you' do!

Sorry my friends but it smacks of double standards.
 
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Albion

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You see, you are quite willing to interpret the above passage as saying they are not biological brother and son! This is picking and choosing interpretations which suit you. Its wrong for the CC to interpret the way they do, according to you but ok for you to interpret the way 'you' do!

Sorry my friends but it smacks of double standards.
If it were an interpretation that only he had ever conceived of, you would have a point there. Besides, you picked the interpretation that appealed to you, so where's the high ground in this argument?
 
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Goatee

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I have to disagree. It does not say that to YOU personally because you do not want it to say that.

I do not mean to disrespect you with that comment, but the truth is that when we like what we know, we are reluctant to learn anything different than what we already think is the truth, even when what we know is wrong.

Again, my understanding of all this is from the Bible and not any denominations teachings.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Mary 'bore' any other children.

Another point, why would Jesus give His mother to John at the foot of the cross when he 'apparently' had lots of 'biological' brothers and sisters to choose from? (According to you)
 
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Gabriel Anton

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So true.

How do you think Jesus would want people to treat His Mother?

She is the Queen of Heaven. Holy Tabernacle of the Son of God.

I feel sorrow in my heart as people denigrate Her.

Peace be with you.

Jesus Loves those who Love His Mother, even adulterers can be forgiven.

Show Love for His Mother who carried Him in Her Womb and Gave Birth to Him in the Manger and Nursed Him with such Immaculate Love.

Defend Her Honour and you will find a place in Heaven for yourself despite of your sins.

I don't like the colour red by the way. It stands out too much.

Jesus Loves converting water to wine for His Mother.

Love Her and Honor Her.

More red. Give me a break.


I claim to know this in spite of claiming to know nothing.

I claim to know nothing.

I claim to not know anything.


God bless you.
 
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Albion

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Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Mary 'bore' any other children.
It says that Jesus had brothers and sisters. That certainly does not say that Mary had no more children after Jesus and it is not a case of Scripture being silent on that matter.

Another point, why would Jesus give His mother to John at the foot of the cross when he 'apparently' had lots of 'biological' brothers and sisters to choose from? (According to you)
Christ is not allowed to decide which person would be best to take care of his mother after he was gone from Earth??
 
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Goatee

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Catholics have given the title of “Intercessor for the Saints” to Mary, although nowhere in the Bible is it applied to her. “Intercession” means “seeking the presence and hearing of God on behalf of others” (Vine, 1966, 2:267). There are only two areas in which Christians need intercession: salvation and prayers. If Mary is now, or ever has been, involved as “Intercessor for the Saints,” there should be ample evidence in Scripture.

This where the Catholic Church is guided by 'Tradition' and the 'Holy Spirit'. Something that non-catholics refute. A long history or Tradition
 
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Albion

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This where the Catholic Church is guided by 'Tradition' and the 'Holy Spirit'. Something that non-catholics refute.
That's true, so far as following the Bible instead of so-called Tradition is concerned. Not true so far as believing in being guided by the Holy Spirit.
 
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Major1

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This where the Catholic Church is guided by 'Tradition' and the 'Holy Spirit'. Something that non-catholics refute. A long history or Tradition

And that is the problem my friend!

It is my contention that Scripture alone is the only authoritative and infallible source for Christian doctrine and practice. Traditions are only valid if they are built on the firm foundation of Scripture and in full agreement with the entirety of Scripture. The following are seven biblical reasons supporting the teaching that the Bible should be accepted as the authority for faith and practice:

(1) It is Scripture that is said to be God-breathed (2 Timothy 3:16 Never anywhere is it said of any church tradition that it, too, is God-breathed and infallible.

(2) It is to Scripture that Jesus and the apostles appeal time after time in support or defense of their actions and teachings (Matthew 12:3, 5; 19:4; 22:31; Mark 12:10).

(3) It is to the Scriptures that the church is commended in order to combat the error that was bound to come (Acts 20:32).

(4) Infallibility is never stated as the possession of those who would become church leaders in succession of the apostles.

(5) Jesus equates the Scriptures with God’s Word (John 10:35).
Nowhere in Scripture does Jesus or any of the apostles appeal to the Jewish traditions.

(6) It is Scripture that has the promise that it will never fail, that it will all be fulfilled. Again, never is this promise given to the traditions of the church (Psalm 119:89,152; Isaiah 40:8; Matthew 5:18; Luke 21:33).

(7) It is the Scriptures that are the instrument of the Holy Spirit and His means for conquering Satan and changing lives (Hebrews 4:12; Ephesians 6:17).

The Roman Catholic Church argues that Scripture was given to men by the Church and therefore the Church has equal or greater authority to it. However, even among the Roman Catholic Church’s writings (from the First Vatican Council), you will find the acknowledgment that the Church councils that determined which books were to be considered the Word of God did nothing but recognize what the Holy Spirit had already made evident. That is, the Church did not “give” Scriptures to men, but simply “recognized” what God, through the Holy Spirit, had already given.

As A. A. Hodge states, when a peasant recognizes a prince and is able to call him by name, it does not give him the right to rule over the kingdom. In like fashion, a church council recognizing which books were God-breathed and possessed the traits of a God-inspired book, does not give the church council equal authority with those books.
 
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Major1

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Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Mary 'bore' any other children.

Another point, why would Jesus give His mother to John at the foot of the cross when he 'apparently' had lots of 'biological' brothers and sisters to choose from? (According to you)

But the Scriptures do say that Jesus had brothers and sisters. IMO it is not brain surgery to figure out that that means the mother of Jesus bore other children. She was married to Joseph. God's command was to populate the earth.

And in your kind of reasoning............
NO WHERE in the Bible does it say that we are to repeat a "Rosary".

In fact.......nowhere in the Scriptures is there even a hint or suggestion of anything called a Rosary, yet the Catholic church teaches their usage.
 
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Major1

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You see, you are quite willing to interpret the above passage as saying they are not biological brother and son! This is picking and choosing interpretations which suit you. Its wrong for the CC to interpret the way they do, according to you but ok for you to interpret the way 'you' do!

Sorry my friends but it smacks of double standards.
I have to disagree.

I did not give you any "Interpretation".

I simply gave you what was actually said and it requires NO interpretation.

Do YOU think that Paul fathered a child out of wedlock?????
 
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Vicomte13

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I love you my brother but doing that is actually not necessary.

I am a literal Bible believer. When I read the words, "Brother or Sister, or Uncle or Aunt", I know what that means.

It seems to me that those Catholics who deny Jesus had half brothers and sisters as recorded in the Scriptures are doing so for only one reason and that is to uphold the Catholic teaching that Mary was a perpetual virgin. Personally I can not think of any other reason than that one.

However my brother, to claim Mary was a perpetual virgin even after Christ was born is to deny the words of the Apostle Matthew, who wrote in Matthew 1:24-25.......
“Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS”.

“Knew” was a modest way of describing sexual relations in ancient times. For example, Adam knew Eve, and she conceived Cain, and he knew her again, and she bore Seth in Gen. 4:1 & 25.

In Gen. 4:17........."Cain knew his wife, and she bore Enoch.

If Joseph never knew Mary at all, the phrase “till she had brought forth her firstborn Son” is pointless. Obviously, Joseph did not sleep with Mary until after she gave birth to Jesus, fulfilling both parts of the prophecy ...... virginal conception and virgin birth, as Isaiah 7:14 states.......
“the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son,”.

But this means Joseph did know her after she gave birth to Jesus, so she was no longer a virgin.

In fact, sex within marriage is not a sin but is a creation ordinance within marriage that existed prior to sin and the Curse. Jesus quoted Genesis 2:24 in Matthew 19:5–6, reiterating “the two shall be one flesh.”
So, Gehenna UNTIL the last penny is paid likewise means that one pays his sins in Gehenna and then is released to Paradise, right?
 
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Major1

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This where the Catholic Church is guided by 'Tradition' and the 'Holy Spirit'. Something that non-catholics refute. A long history or Tradition

Just so that we are clear on the meaning of Triditions.

According to Roman Catholic teachings.......... “tradition” must assume its rightful place as a source of religious authority, along side of, and actually superior to, the Scriptures. A Catholic scholar says:

“It is an article of faith from a decree of the Vatican Council that Tradition is a source of theological teaching distinct from Scripture, and that it is infallible. It is therefore to be received with the same internal assent as Scripture, for it is the word of God” (Attwater, p. 41).

Our differences are set in the fact that IMO we must develop a deeper confidence in the Bible as THE inspired revelation from God. It is the full and final source of spiritual authority for all that we teach and practice and traditions can never change or overshadow the written Word of God.
 
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Major1

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So, Gehenna UNTIL the last penny is paid likewise means that one pays his sins in Gehenna and then is released to Paradise, right?

And since YOU brought that up, I am sure that YOU are aware of the CONTEXT of the teaching of Jesus from hence came the quote.

You did not post the quote you are using so you are leaving it to me to do so..

The one I am familiar with is Jesus speaking on the Mount and was teaching us that if we are angry with our brother, we are guilty of murder.

He was saying that if we break one Law we break them all. All sin must be paid for, completely! We either pay for our own sin or we accept the payment Jesus made for us.

Do YOU keep every Commandment?

Now having said that I would encourage you to be more understanding in your thinking.

Everyone uses “a” method of Bible study and interpretation, whether conscious or not. Some use what has been called the magic finger method. Others use the devotional approach, and make application before they are sure of what the verse actually means.

Yet others are content to let others tell them what the Bible means… missing out on the joy of discovering truths in the Word for themselves. Unfortunately some others have given up on Bible study altogether, having concluded that it is just too complicated. There are better ways to approach the subject of Bible study.

The best method of interpreting the Bible is to understand this Book as you would any other piece of literature or human speech.

It has been said......."The best interpretation of a historical record is no interpretation but simply letting the divine Author of the record say what He says and assuming He says what He means." (The Revelation Record)

I use the "Literal" approach first.
This is the way we communicate in ever day speech.

We ALL employ this method of interpretation in speech, in reading literature, in legal contracts, and in other forms of communication. Imagine if you bought a new car and the seller used the “spiritual” method of interpreting the contract? ($600.00 per month for five years doesn’t literally mean for five literal years. It means an undetermined length of time… and $600.00 means a large sum of money… which is to be determined by the interpreter.)

“To interpret means to explain the original sense of a speaker or writer. To interpret literally means to explain the original sense of the speaker or writer according to the normal, customary, and proper usages of words and language. Literal interpretation of the Bible simply means explaining the original sense of the Bible according to the normal and customary usages of its language.”

“The literal method of interpretation is that method that gives to each word the same exact basic meaning it would have in normal, ordinary, customary usage, whether employed in writing, speaking or thinking.”

I hope this helps you.
 
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