OSAS does not espouse this sort of belief. Becoming a monster before you die seems to me to be clear evidence that one has not been truly saved. The Bible agrees (See 1Jn. 2, 3).
So all christians are perfect once saved? Its impossible to become a monster? And if they are a monster now then they were not saved to begin with? Your essentially just saying OSAS isn't true then, just using a diffrent route to get there and claiming its not the same.
What if a christian who became a monster changed their life yet again and lived like Jesus, after all we repent and what not. Would you say they are not saved still? Thats the flaw in OSAS. When someone does something bad, you say they are not saved. When they do something good, they must be saved.
I also would assume you are perfect of course in terms of being a christian. You have never messed up once you were saved? To say you have never messed up would mean you are lying and thus you have now messed up. Now I realize screwing up vs being a monster are two different things of course. Still, as I said in another thread that those who preach as if they are saved and holier than others, they are in committing the sin of pride. And often words have power. So stating one is a true christian (which is what you are doing) means you are uttering words that could come back around later in life and cause you to stumble hard when a trial hits.
Proverbs 11:2
When pride comes, then comes disgrace,
but with humility comes wisdom.
And so? That is why we make our case from the pages of Scripture and not merely our preferences and opinions. I have done so. Have you?
There are many scriptures I could throw at you but thats not really my thing. Becasuse anyone can throw a scripture and twist what it says or take it out of context.
Do you remember what I said about unreal hypotheticals? It applies here. No one is obliged to answer to something you cook up in your imagination.
So is it unreal or is it just to hard for you to answer it because you may be wrong about it? Seems your side skirting/redirecting to avoid it.
Oh? And what about becoming a "new creature in Christ"? What about being indwelt by God's Spirit? What about God's discipline of His wayward children? Is God's spiritual regeneration of us so tepid, so weak, that it cannot overcome our sinful nature? Not according to Scripture. Read
Romans 6 and 8. No true believer "just snaps" and goes back to the godless life they once lived. About this Scripture is clear.
How do you know this? Because you have not snapped? Have you had a family member murdered? Lost a child? Maybe went bankrupt? Prideful christians tend to talk the talk until something happens to them, then they learn the art of being humble.
Do I think Hitler made it to heaven? I seriously doubt it. People don't commit themselves so profoundly to wickedness as he did and then reverse at the last moment. But who knows? God is greater than all our sin. Not even Hitler is beyond His power to reform.
You doubt it, but you also said OSAS is true. So Hitler didn't make it? And you can't say "He wasn't really saved then!" because again its wiggling out of truth. What do you think of the apostle "Doubting Thomas"? If we go by what you say then wasn't really saved because He still had doubts even after all he went through. Right?
Why wait? Because we love God and so desire to serve Him here on earth as He has made us to do.
But why? If OSAS is true then it doesn't matter what we do on earth because death is a easy way to see God right? I mean I know plenty of people who undoubtingly love the Lord that are near walk the walk and talk the talk who, if they thought it was possilbe, would kill themselves just to see Jesus sooner than later.
I think the danger is far, far greater for the person who believes they can lose their salvation. Such a person relies on fear and Self-preservation to motivate themselves to right living. But such motives God refuses utterly. Only love for God will do as a motive for our obedience. (Matt. 22:36-38; 1 Cor. 13:1-3) In fact, I seriously doubt that a person who is significantly motivated in their Christian life by fear for their salvation really understands the Gospel at all. And if they don't understand it, I wonder if they are actually saved. The perfect love of God casts out fear (1Jn. 4:16-19). And so those who fear have not understood and been perfected in God's love. Are such people truly saved? I wonder...
Against the rules to even hint someone may not be saved. I will remind you though that remember God judges on how we judge others. So if you assume anyone is not really a christian because they did something bad, then God will judge you the same and say "Remember when did that one thing......".
I guess the difference between me and the few who believe in OSAS is I am humble enough to admit I am not perfect. I am a new creature in God, but it does not mean we don't screw up. And of course if you are talking to a non-christian and wanting to share the gospel, who do you think they will want to listen to more (and believe more).
A. A person that says they can be saved, but if they don't become perfect, then they were never saved begin with and go to hell.
or
B. A person who says they can be saved, but it may not mean they will be as perfect as Jesus was, but as long as they remain on the righteous path, they will see heaven. And then the you share with them things that open you wide to them so they see the love of Jesus.
I'd choose B. I see the A person as the sorty of person that lets say stands outside certain events and holds up signs saying "Your going to burn in hell you <nasty slang for the person!" then shouts verses at them. I do not see Gods love in those people who do that.
