I am of the opinion He does. 'Who' was Jesus talking to below? Peter, or Satan...or both? I say both, because Peter was the willing spokesperson for Satan.
MAT 16:23 But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me; for you are not on the side of God, but of men."
Peter was unregenerate. He still thought with his natural mind. To say that Peter was a "willing spokesperson for Satan" suggests that Peter was consciously speaking on behalf of Satan. That is not true. We could then say that Caiaphas consciously spoke on behalf of the Holy Spirit when he said:
Joh 11:49 ...Ye know nothing at all,
Joh 11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
Joh 11:51 And
this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
Yet the text clearly states that he spoke not of himself. This applies to Peter in the same way.
While I agree with what you've posted, I disagree with your conclusion that it means 'eternally limited solely', based upon US.
What do you do with all those scriptures that disagree with our nominal definition of 'free will'? I'm referring specifically to all the scriptures speaking of HIS WILL to "drawn, called, chosen, predestined" and last but not least;
ACT 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of God; and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Are all of the "ordained to believe , drawn, called, chosen, predestined" verses, 'up to you' or 'up to God'....as all the other scriptures refer to also.
I don't understand your answer. I have repeatedly said that salvation is a two way street. God calls us but we must respond. What I think you are addressing is Calvinism. I do not believe that God chooses some for life and some for death. He wants all to live, but he gives us freedom to choose. The flip side, however, is His omniscience. He knows those who will reject Christ and those who will accept. Nonetheless there is a factor of reality that has to occur. When Adam was created with a free will that meant He knew Adam would fall and already had the plan of salvation prepared. However, knowing he would fall and his falling in reality are two different things. There is something I do not understand about reality and God's omniscience, but I am aware of it.
Another believer in universal salvation incoherently spoke of what God must be doing in the multiverse. Multiverse? This is in the Bible? There is a multiverse in the mind of God, in my opinion, in the sense that God knows all possible outcomes from all possible choices, yet will still accomplish His purpose in the end. We are not the ones who can say what that ultimate purpose is, including the salvation of all people. Jesus said that the path to destruction is wide and broad, but the path to life is straight and narrow.
But, we "do not stay" because that's what God would do. We do so because we have not the AGAPE love he manifests to us, and has displayed for us through the prophet
Habbakuk. A man whom God had marry and stay married to in spite of her loveless adulteries....just like Israel? I've known several who've stayed in rotten relationships with the only love in them, being that of sacrificial AGAPE from 'the one'. I do agree your statment is certainly not a 'character' trait of most of the church....but I say that to the churches dismay IMA.
I understand your point, and kudos to those who stay in rotten marriages. I think Habakkuk is a poor example, however, since he was a prophet who did what God commanded to make a point to Israel of His own broken relationship with Israel and the Mosaic covenant. However, God is creating a perfect body for himself, which is only found in Jesus. Those who do not accept Jesus are not wearing the proper wedding garments and will be cast out.
What does Jesus say?
MAT 5:45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends (good) rain on the just and on the unjust.
What I mean is that those who respond to Him will understand the good rain that is falling. Jesus simply meant that God is good and His goodness is given to all whether they know it or not.
You mean like '
community rejecting/killing' Paul, loved him and came willingly to Him?
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
And it was God's manifestation of love for Paul, on the road to Dammascus that
drew/dragged (Greek) him to believe.
Paul had a zeal without knowledge. He genuinely sought to serve the Lord and was doing so as he understood through the Mosaic system. When Jesus revealed himself to Paul, his knowledge was corrected.
I hope you can see from just this one post that your position has neither convinced me, that you are thinking like I think. And you are making statements that I am quoting scriptural disagreement to.
I made it clear from the beginning of this thread that I was not seeking to convince anyone to believe one way or another , but I would, nonetheless state what I agreed or disagreed with. My purpose was to understand the position, but, honestly, no supporter of universal salvation has convinced me to support the doctrine. I have also stated that many adherents to the doctrine are clearly genuine Christians who know Christ and still see the need to share the Gospel to others. As Paul said to the Philippians, either way Christ is preached and therein do I rejoice.
I think my study and my answers to you here, is a prime example of the comment you've made above, for both of us.
Yes, I agree. Bias comes into our hearts without our realizing it many times. I originally believed, for example, that there is only one coming back of Jesus. But years of repeatedly hearing in churches that there was a "secret" rapture for the church before the tribulation caused me to start accepting that position. But when I married my wife she stood steadfast on her view that there is only one return of Christ and that all the world will see it. That made me aware of how a bias came into my mind that I did not consciously choose.
I agree 100% with this post too....with the exception of
;
Name one place where we have ever stated there's no need to "acknowledge the truth of our sin and need for salvation?" That statement reveals a crystal clear '
hearing what you want to hear and disregarding the rest' IMO. Please back up this opinion you've posted. I do not see it being presented by us, but only
assumed by you. But I would welcome the opportunity to dialogue concerning any proof you believe supports your statement.
If you are referring to the use of the traditional sinner's prayer, I do not mean that. That is a recent invention of DL Moody. However, Romans 6 makes it clear that we are all sinners and Romans 10 tells us that if we believe in our hearts Christ is Lord and confess it with our mouth we will be saved. In my case, I knew I was a sinner, but did not see the need for a Savior until I realized that there really are demons who want me destroyed. Then I realized I needed a Savior. Of course, I also did not believe that a man became God, but when I understood that God became a man, salvation came to me.
In regards to my point in my last response, however, my point is that Truth will not let Lie abide in Him. Our discipleship is that process of coming to grips with the truth about ourselves and understanding who Truth really is. As someone once said, God is not the best possible us that we could be. He is greater and much more different.
Again, Hillsage, I really don't care if you believe in universal salvation or not. I only wanted to understand why people like yourselves do so.
The only possible harm I see in the doctrine is the lack of effort to tell the lost about Christ's gift of life. But that is not the case. Many universal salvation adherents say they still tell people about Jesus. And, frankly, there are still thousands of pew sitters that believe otherwise who are too cowardly to share the Gospel with others.