The 4th Commandment had to go, and it did.

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1stcenturylady

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Hi 1Jn, No, Jesus was not telling "us" to teach the law, he was telling fellow Israelites to teach the law. That was all they had. Jesus had not paid the price for Israel's and our failure. Paul wrote a lot about the law and he made it clear the it was temporary. It ended at the Cross.


Sin is not about ritual laws given only to Israel. It is not sin for Christians for not observing days that were given to only one nation, Israel. In other words none of us are committing wilful sin when there is no law for us to keep. Sabbath and feast laws are not part of the new covenant law system.



Where there is no law there is no sin. You religious group has taught you that keep Sabbath is a law for Christians. Jesus fulfilled the law nullifying it for Israel and of course it was never a law for gentiles.


that does not mean that there is no difference in laws. Many of the laws given in Torah dealt with how Israel was to treat their fellow man, morality. Some were like the Sabbath, ritual. God didn't distinguish, but that doesn't mean we can't.


I was in my SDA church that I helped to build last week. Please do not feel sorry for me. I am free in Christ, free indeed. You are the ones carrying the burdens. I worship God anytime, you are obligated, without any proof, to worship Him on a certain day, too bad.


You have made an assumption that is not in any way true. I love me SDA brothers and sisters, but some of the doctrines plus the prophet are false. Jesus was quick to "smash" the law thumpers of His time, so why is it not okay for us to do it now?


That is your personal choice. You have no right telling me I should not tell others what they are doing is not Biblical. I am sure you are not the last word and your decisions do not have to be mine.


Well thanks, but you are talking to the choir. It breaks my heart to see you and others with your heads in the sand. For instance, I have never said or even indicated I have disdain for the commandments. I have upheld with all my heart the most special command that was ever given. That command goes like this: Jn13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. That along with our love for God sums up every other command that deals with morality, however it surely does not deal with commands that were given only to Israel for ritual purposes.

I pray this helps you to see the real light. May God bless you with the simple plan of salvation found in all of scripture and especially in the New Testament.

Hi, Bob. This is off subject. Just wanted to say that I never realized you were once SDA like I was. Small world.
 
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bugkiller

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Seriously John 13 voids God's commandments? That does not even make sense. You are reading something into the passage that is not there. He made new commandment for His deciples to love one another that does not void God's commandments. I can't even begin to imagine how you draw that conclusion from that passage.
I have no idea where you got that from. No where will you find me saying or implying Jn 13:34 voids anything. The question is how can anyone observe it and be in violation of the law? Now I certainly have been known to make that statement about Jn !5:10.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Good morning BK,
Yep, verse 28
"Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Thanks for making my point sir, since Paul was speaking to Gentile believers, namely the Galatians.

In Christ, John 17:20
Glad you think I made your point for you. What I see is you divorce a few words from the allegory taking it out of context to support your idea. Paul is not talking about Isaac. Paul is talking about covenants.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. Ephesians 2:11-22


We who are in Christ, have been grafted into the Covenant of Promise, that is to say, the Abrahamic Covenant, which has been renewed, and is now called the New Covenant.


Abraham was in Covenant with Jesus Christ our Lord, who is YHWH, the God of Israel, who became flesh, and performed His part of the blood letting of that covenant with Abraham, whose part of the blood letting was circumcision.

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. Genesis 17:1
Abraham never did have any covenant with Jesus. No covenant in Genesis is renewed or changed in or by the NT. The NC is the fulling of a promise covenant made with Abraham. The NC never was made with Abraham in the flesh. Abraham entered the NC after the death of Jesus, the promised Seed.
WE have the same calling to walk with the Lord, they way Abraham was called to walk with the Lord.

  • walk before Me and be blameless.
Walk in in My Presence.
Walk with Me.
Walk in My Spirit.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16


Abraham is a Gentile, and is unique, as He foreshadows us, who are "in Christ", that is to say, "in Covenant with Christ", being both Gentile and Jew; a type of the One New man.
JLB
Walking blameless before God can not be achieved through the law. Abraham did not have the law.

Walking in or by the (My) Spirit is not walking in or by the law - Gal 5:18.

bugkiller
 
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John 1720

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john 1720 said:
Good morning BK,
Yep, verse 28
"Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Thanks for making my point sir, since Paul was speaking to Gentile believers, namely the Galatians.
In Christ, John 17:20
Glad you think I made your point for you. What I see is you divorce a few words from the allegory taking it out of context to support your idea. Paul is not talking about Isaac. Paul is talking about covenants.
bugkiller
???
There is no context switch. Do you deny Issac was a child of the same promise which you now possess through Christ our Lord?
 
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1stcenturylady

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Glad you think I made your point for you. What I see is you divorce a few words from the allegory taking it out of context to support your idea. Paul is not talking about Isaac. Paul is talking about covenants.

bugkiller
Hey Buggy, I saw this and though I only read Johns post you responded to here, I just wanted to tell you that his speaking of Isaac IS speaking of that covenant. He is referring to Galatians 4 about Abraham having two sons representing two covenants. Ishmael is the covenant on Mount Sinai, the Ten Commandments, and Isaac is the covenant of the promised Seed, Jesus. You've heard of that before haven't you?
 
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bugkiller

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Hello BK,
I think you greatly misunderstand sir. You seem to be hung up on Jewish nationalism but that is not what the Scriptures are talking about. When Jesus says salvation is of the Jews He is speaking to the spiritual sons and daughters of Abraham, who are also children of the promise, through Himself - who fulfilled the promise by the cross and rose for us all. We are one in Christ, Gentile and Jew and we are all children of the promise = sons and daughters of Abraham's spiritual progeny. This is the thread that runs through the whole Bible and what every missionary understands. L
ike Jesus, the Abrahamic promise fulfiller, once said to a tax collector

  • Luk 19:9 And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham.
So it doesn't mean you have to wear a yamaka and eat kavala fish but hey, why not if it gives you opportunity to tell Jesus stories that in unison with the Holy Spirit wins a Jewish brother to Christ?

Isa 49:6 Indeed He "GOD" says,
‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob,
And to restore the preserved ones of Israel;
I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”

There is only one tree brother!
First I think you mistake who Zacchaeus was. I do not believe he was a Jew because they referred to him as a sinner. I do not think Jews spoke of themselves as sinners. A son of Abraham is not necessarily a Jew, descendent from Jacob.

Secondly this forum is not here for the purpose of evangelizing the Jew. This forum is mostly comprised of goy gentiles. This section of the forum is for Christians only. If you are here evangelizing you are violating the rules. As such why would any think you have respect for God's rules while violating those of authority here you pledged to obey?

When it comes to Christianity I agree there is only one tree. The problem is you claim that tree is Israel and I claim it is Jesus. One of us is wrong. The Christian abides in Jesus, not Israel - Jn 15.

bugkiller
 
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1stcenturylady

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First I think you mistake who Zacchaeus was. I do not believe he was a Jew because they referred to him as a sinner. I do not think Jews spoke of themselves as sinners. A son of Abraham is not necessarily a Jew, descendent from Jacob.

Secondly this forum is not here for the purpose of evangelizing the Jew. This forum is mostly comprised of goy gentiles. This section of the forum is for Christians only. If you are here evangelizing you are violating the rules. As such why would any think you have respect for God's rules while violating those of authority here you pledged to obey?

When it comes to Christianity I agree there is only one tree. The problem is you claim that tree is Israel and I claim it is Jesus. One of us is wrong. The Christian abides in Jesus, not Israel - Jn 15.

bugkiller

Matthew was a Jew, but also a tax collector who were considered sinners. So was Zacchaeus. Tax collectors were crooks.
 
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bugkiller

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Jesus nor His deciples distroyed the temple Rome did, they fled to the mountains just as He prophecied why are you arguing that fact?
No. Maybe I am to fast for you. I assume you have read the Bible. I am beginning to think that is a mistake on my part. I reference Mat 24 though saying Jesus prophesied about the destruction of Jerusalem. You come back with Jesus nor His disciples destroyed the temple. Please, who do you take me for? An idiot? Read my post again please. Then comment only after reading Mat 24 as well. Thanks.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Bob
My savior said to do and teach the law and prophets to be great in the Kingdom so I will continue to share with others the law and the prophets. He said that if you teach against them you will be least in the Kingdom. It is obvious by this statement that He did not want His followers to use Him as an excuse to teach against the law and prophets. He said until heaven and Earth pass away- it's still here. He did not say until I pass away then do what is right in your own eyes and trample My Father's commandments. Please show me where Jesus said you will no longer need to keep or teach the law and prophets, or only keep ones that you feel are moral?

Willfull sin after one knows the Truth is dishonoring Jesus that is in Hebrews 10. I grow tired of hearing that if you follow God's instuctions you are trampling of the blood of Jesus.

He died for our SIN, our lawlessness, we all deserved the curse brought on by not following God's instuctions. We are saved from our sin from that curse which is because of our sin, He paid the price and took the penalty which is death so we could live. He did not save us from God's instuctions so we could now walk in lawlessness. We are to walk in newness of life.

God did not separate His law into any kind of categories moral cerimonial and civil. That is a doctrine of man and is just not supported by the Bible.

I am sorry you had a bad experience with your previous church and now you view His Sabbath as a burdon. That makes me really sad for you.

We all have been hurt by churches, they are full of people some very amazing people and some hurt and injured people. We must move on not just make it our purpose to smash thier doctrine down into the ground. I was burned badly by a Baptist Church yet I am not going to camp out on the Baptist forum and tell them how unbiblical thier doctrine is even though I do believe they have some rather unbiblical doctrine. All denominations have some kind of darkness in the past. I do care for you and others on this thread, and it breaks my heart to see you and others have such distain for one of God's commandments expecially one that is so special.

Shabbat Shalom
This is just a marker. I will have to come back to it another day.

bugkiller
 
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1John2:4

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This is just a marker. I will have to come back to it another day.

bugkiller
Please don't, it is not even written to you, therefore there is no reason for you to reply to it. I would appreciate it, however, if you would answer the question I asked about YOUR Definition of lawlessness.
 
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1John2:4

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No. Maybe I am to fast for you. I assume you have read the Bible. I am beginning to think that is a mistake on my part. I reference Mar 24 though saying Jesus prophesied about the destruction of Jerusalem. You come back with Jesus nor His disciples destroyed the temple. Please, who do you take me for? An idiot? Read my post again please. Then comment only after reading Mat 24 as well. Thanks.

bugkiller
Lady and I already discussed this and you chimed in. You did not say anything about Jesus prophecing anything. I suppose I have to read your mind along with your not so loving posts?
 
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1John2:4

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I have no idea where you got that from. No where will you find me saying or implying Jn 13:34 voids anything. The question is how can anyone observe it and be in violation of the law? Now I certainly have been known to make that statement about Jn !5:10.

bugkiller
John 5:10 does not void the law and prophets either, nothing in the law says a man can not carry his mat on the Sabbath.
 
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Bob S

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Hi, Bob. This is off subject. Just wanted to say that I never realized you were once SDA like I was. Small world.
Yep Lady, a long time. Actually way to long. Why anyone would want to join a church that is restrictive, very legalistic with a false prophet at the helm is beyond my imagination, yet I was loved into such a group. Great people with a false doctrine. They will not budge even with all the truth we offer. They are going to have to open their Bibles and allow the Holy Spirit to guide them in place of ellen white.
 
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Bob S

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Lady and I already discussed this and you chimed in. You did not say anything about Jesus prophecing anything. I suppose I have to read your mind along with your not so loving posts?
Open forum 1Jn. Feel free to "chime in" any time. If you want a private conversation you can do that.

Oh yes, you have not responded to my last post, you know it is the one I responded to your post. I have no idea if you even read my post unless you respond.
 
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JLB777

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Abraham never did have any covenant with Jesus.

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. 2 And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.” Genesis 17:1-2


Jesus is Lord; YHWH

He is the Lord of the Old Testament, who was seen by some.

This is a foundational Church doctrine.

We are grafted into the Covenant that He made with Abraham, which continues to this day, in which it was refreshed or renewed, and is now called the "New Covenant".

New does not mean new as in "different", but new as in restored or refreshed.


The same Lord who made covenant with Abraham, became flesh and died of the cross for our sins, and will come on the last Day with all the saints, to gather His people at the resurrection/rapture.


Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5



JLB
 
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Talking Donkey N22

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We put the Lord first on our agenda for the week. We do not do it because it is commanded. We do it because we want to. That is why we meet on Sunday mornings.

1. There is biblical evidence the Apostles started that practice (Acts 20:7; 1Cor 16:1-2).

In Acts 18:6 the Apostle Paul decided to stop preaching to Jews. After that, the word Sabbath appears only once in the NT (Col 2:16, to show it was not the real thing). But after Acts 18:6 we see this:

ACT 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

1CO 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God has prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

2. There is biblical evidence the Sabbath was a type and a shadow of something better to come (Col 2:16-17, Heb 10:1) and as such, can not make us perfect.

COL 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

HEB 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

3. There is biblical evidence that to think that one day is holier than another is a sign of a poor understanding of God’s ways (weakness in the faith). See Rom 15:4-6; Gal 4:9-11.

ROM 14:4 Who are you that judge another man's servant? to his own master he stands or falls. Yea, he shall be held up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteems one day above another: another esteems every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regards the day, regards it unto the Lord; and he that regards not the day, to the Lord he does not regard it. …

GAL 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labor in vain.

TD
 
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listed

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Hello Brother KluteDavid
Sir, I fail to see how you would come to that conclusion from the plain meaning of the sentences provided. Just to be clear this is what I am claiming:

  • We have become partakers of the Abrahamic blessing; which were clearly Jewish. Our standing in Christ is based on the promises initially given to Abraham, then Isaac, then Jacob and yes, we have been grafted into this promise in place of the natural branches. There is much exegetical evidence as well as commentary which agrees.
Let's look at the entire passage so there is no remaining confusion.
  • Audience Context: Paul is speaking about Israel to Gentile Believers so necessarily he would have been juxtaposing Israeli believers, Israel itself, Gentile believers and those nations or ethne' yet to be grafted into the ends of the earth blessing, the promise of Salvation (which occurs at the fulfillment of time of the Gentiles and also the fulfillment of Israel's return). There is clearly an admonition here that Gentile believers not be too cocky about what has 'presently' happened among the Jews and Gentiles.
You entail Abramham as a Jew. Abraham isn't a Jew but the great grandfather of the Jews. By your statement you imply Israel is the root. This is incorrect. You also fail to read the word "among" as mentioned to you. "Among" never means "is."
[Romans 11
16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

  • The first fruits of the Church were all Jewish, including the apostles, disciples, and the 5000 jews they added to their number at Pentecost.
  • The root of course is Jesus, who self described Himself as the true Vine and His disciples as the branches.
    • John 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
  • The lump is the bulk product of the first-fruits the thing being kneaded usually mixed with a liquid. The Greek word is φύραμα phýrama, whicj means swelling the bulk.
    • Isaiah 49:6 Indeed He says, ‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, that You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’ 
    • Then of course there is my handle from Jesus priestly prayer at the Last Supper where He prays for Himself, His Disciples, and then all who will believe through His all Jewish Apostles.
    • Jhn 17:20 "I do not pray for these alone, (His Apostles) but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
    • Now the word of these first-fruits or Apostles, rooted in Christ, was propogated in their preaching as well as captured in the New Testament. The product of that effort is us the lump; both are grounded in the root of Christ.
  • So we see we have but one Vine, although Paul will use the metaphor of the Olive Tree - which was the symbol for Israel. The branches represent disciples. However, we shall see the symbolism holds.
What is holy? The first fruit. You entail that is speaking of Israel. How? I do take it you've thoroughly read the OT. Israel is recorded as being anything but holy. Jesus is known as the first fruit. (Acts 26:23). "The" Root not "a" root. A root would be necessary to support your argument. Again Israel is wicked not holy. Just read the OT. It isn't Israel the Christian is among. It's the Jewish believers also graft into the Root. Gentile believers never become part of the commonwealth. (Ephesians 2) Your first bullet below says the Christian draws their life from Israel. This is incorrect. We draw our life from Jesus. John 15 says Jesus is the Vine and we (Christians) are the branches of the vine. Jesus isn't talking about Israel being the branches.
  • 17-18 (never end on a comma) And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

  • Now branches broken off implies branches that were originally there. How were they there one may ask? They were there according to the promise given to Abraham, who was blessed to be a blessing and this was passed on to his progeny Jacob (Israel). Note Jesus originally came for the children of Israel and not the Gentiles, which His conversation with the Syro-Phoenician woman bears out. He also tells the Samaritan woman that salvation is of the Jews.
  • Mark 7:27 But Jesus said to her, “Let the children be filled first, for it is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”
  • John 4:22 "You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
You're trying to force something not intended. You do this to imply something that isn't there because the "olive tree" is used. Yes there are implications.These implications adversely affect the truth in your case.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”
  • This is a clear reference of the Gentile Church being grafted into the same tree, since they say branches were "broken off" that I might be grafted in. There is no second tree as you suppose. There is one tree whose branches did not remain in Christ and branches from non-Israel that were grafted in their place.
I think "one fold" has been mentioned. This "one fold" is not "this fold."
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
  • Just an affirmation that Paul agrees with their assessment that they have been grafted in to the tree where the other branches were broken off. He then adds that they stand in this entitlement by faith in Christ. That should make them fear and not be prideful about it.
They meaning Christians weren't graft into Israel, the olive tree. Christians are graft in to the Root, Jesus.http://www.blbclassic.org/tools/printerFriendly.cfm?b=Rom&c=11&t=NKJVP&x=7&y=8#
For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
  • If God eliminated the natural branches, those unbelieving who rejected Jesus as their Messiah, then what of Gentile Churches that may some day be rejected for the same reason.
In-other-words even a natural blood Jew isn't part of the tree unless they believe and are graft in.
Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
Continue in Israel or Jesus? Your quote does say "His" doesn't it?
  • The reason Gentile believers should fear is that if they do not remain in Christ they too will be cut off as Jesus said in John 15:5
Remain in who or what? Did yous ay Jesus? I thought you say the Christians become the same as Israel with your discussion of Romans 11.
]23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
  • "And if Israel should come to belief" here Paul doubles down on the postulate that God is able to restore them to the Olive tree (the original tree of blessing given to Israel) by re-grafting them into this tree of promised blessing.
Manny people have problems with this. Paul isn't talking about being graft into Israel.
For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
Now the truth comes out as Paul changes things with a limiting adjective and an inclusive "a." Details matter as one poster here says all the time.
  • Here Paul states Gentiles were cut out of a wild (un cultivated) olive tree but the Gentile believers were grafted into the cultivated Olive tree (Israel). Uncultivated means not cultivated by God for the blessing. This become crystal clear when he categorically states "how much more can the "natural branches", the Jews, be grafted back into their own olive tree that God has cultivated since Abraham. There are two trees, wild on it own, and natural - cultivated by God but there is only one tree that inherits the blessing to be a blessing that was given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel).
Hold the phone there. You change from "a" to "the." That is a very subtle change of vital importance. And include your argument the "olive tree is Israel. You've deleted the words "among" and "the Root."

There are 2 covenants given to Abraham. One of them is about a place to live and the other concerns salvation or redemption of mankind. I find you're mixing the 2 covenants.http://www.blbclassic.org/tools/printerFriendly.cfm?b=Rom&c=11&t=NKJVP&x=7&y=8#
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
  • Here Paul is speaking to prophesy that once the time of the Gentiles has been fulfilled Israel will come to Christ and the complete Abrahamic blessing will have been completed.
  • The fullness of the time of the Gentiles, of course, is the great commission which must go to all ethne'
  • Mat 24:14 “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
  • Once that happens Israel, the natural branches, will also be grafted back into the Olive tree.
This blindness has nothing to do with the subject being discussed . As Paul states in the chapter God isn't finished with Israel yet. Israel has special exception and treatment. I think this is still a mystery to many and doesn't affect non Jewish people's relationship with God.
never end context on a comma And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:“The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”
  • Again this is only one tree, the natural Olive tree, whose root is Christ and whose disciples are the branches both natural and grafted in wild branches; i.e Jewish and Gentiles in Christ.
  • Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
We are one in what? Israel? No you said in Jesus Christ. Your contradictory argument fails.
  • Col 3:11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

In Christ, John 17:20
 
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Bob S

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Hi Listed, I am curious where the covenant of grace (salvation) is found in a covenant given to Israel. Moses knew Abraham was saved by grace and of course wrote about his salvation. The only covenant I can find with Israel is Torah, the covenant gaining a home in Canaan.
 
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