LDS J. Smith said Heavenly Father Died

withwonderingawe

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It doesn't bother you that all these things read like pages out of new age...? Or that it's the same old lie in the Garden, ye shall be as gods...? Wow, it's showing up everywhere now, we could say it's coming out of the closet. Whereas sons of god, and gods is simply a reference to angels......and where Jesus says we shall be like the angels too.......but woe to us if we take it any further than that. Doesn't the flesh and ego love it though. Better not forget the rest of the passage that says ye shall be gods, yet ye shall die like mere men......the Lord mocking the lies of the enemy.

Does it bother you that you worship an immaterial substances which the Bible never speaks of?

We do have a different concept of just what an angel is.

In Rev 22 John tries to worship an angel;
8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Angels are not some kind of other being, Cherubims are another kind of heavenly being but angels are prophets who return as messengers of God. Or just un-resurrected spirits

"But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?" Heb 1

Your grandmother could be your guardian angel.

* Satan didn't lie about us becoming like gods

"...and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.....And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.."

God made an opening statement 'Let us make an in our image and after our likeness..." he didn't say part way or just sort of. In Rev 3 " To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."
 
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HeLeadethMe

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HeLeadethMe, I'm going to say the same thing I said to Yanni earlier--

I respect that you feel LDS beliefs are false. However, it seems to me that you seem to be misunderstanding what LDS beliefs are. Would you like to have a more accurate picture of what LDS beliefs are?
I'm not saying anything about agreeing with LDS beliefs, just having an accurate picture of what those beliefs are.

Do you mean that what the mormons are portraying here is not an accurate picture of mormon beliefs? I think that sadly, it is mormons themselves who do not realize what it is they are actually embracing and where it is leading.
 
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Jane_Doe

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Do you mean that what the mormons are portraying here is not an accurate picture of mormon beliefs?
That is not what I said.
I think that sadly, it is mormons themselves who do not realize what it is they are actually embracing and where it is leading.
You are free to think that, and I'm not trying to change your opinion on the matter. I was just offering to help you better understand what LDS beliefs actually are, regardless of your opinion on them.
 
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Peter1000

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So the Mormon gods cannot do anything of themselves, but can only imitate what other, earlier gods have done?

You need to be careful what you say. John 5:19 & 30 was said by Jesus himself. Is Jesus your God?
If he is then by his own admission, he can only do what he sees his Father do.
AND
He also admits he can do nothing of himself.

Do you still want to claim Jesus as your God?

Since Jesus did many wonderful works and miracles.
Since Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead.
Since Jesus allowed himself to be crusified to fulfill his mission.
Since Jesus died on the cross.
Since Jesus raised himself from the dead, with a body of flesh and bone and spirit.
We know his Father and God did the same things. It is the only logical conclusion of John 5:19.

God the Father is our Father and God too. The only God with which we have to do, though there be gods and lords many, we only have to do with God the Father (1 Corinthians 8:5), who happens to be the Father and God of Jesus Christ too. (John 20:17)

We too, are aware that there are other gods and lords, but that is as far as it goes. Our focus and devotion must be on our God, who is God the Father and we worship Him only, when He tells us to worship His son, we do that also. Any other gods, we give it little thought, because El is who we worship, the same El that Jesus worships, the same El that Jesus looks to as an example, the same El that Jesus cried out to while he was on the cross. Who do you worship?
 
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BigDaddy4

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Consistency does not seem to be their strong point. Again, I'd like to know how this theology is supposed to work wherein the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate gods and yet Mormons are not Patripassionists if they now say that the Son can only do those things that He has explicitly seen the Father do/those things which the Father has done before Him. Was Christ not crucified on the cross in Mormonism? Did he not die then and resurrect three days later, according to the scriptures? Then these things must've also happened to the Father at some point if posts like #6 (written by a Mormon) are accurate: Actually, what he's saying is "Jesus knew what to do because Heavenly Father himself had done it before some time in the past, and so they both understood what was going on."

So there ya go. God the Father died on the cross, but they're not Patripassionists (somehow). and they'll argue that this is misunderstanding or misrepresentation of Mormon theology (or the other favorite: "that's not doctrine!"), even as they confirm that this is what their theology says, as in the above quote from post #6. (So I don't know what the problem is/why every post from them hasn't just come out and said "Yes, OP, that is what we believe.")

You are right: there's no consistency whatsoever. It's like they haven't even thought through the implications of their own theology before just saying whatever seems to be the case to them because look at this Bible verse and look at that one and look at this one. Nothing has to fit together and you don't actually have to be able to answer questions about how it does -- just throw Bible verses at it until it goes away! :doh:If that doesn't work, accuse the people you're talking with of being against the Bible (just like Joseph Smith does in the quote in the OP) because they don't share your Mormon eisegesis of it, despite the fact that such a reading is so ludicrous and obviously wrong on its face that nobody else does or ever has shared it (except for Muslims, actually; I'm not going to link to an example because I am loathe to spread Islamic propaganda under any circumstances, but there are various Muslim apologetic works against Christianity dating back many centuries which think themselves mighty clever for asking the question "Where was God for the three days that Jesus, who you say is God, was dead after the crucifixion?" Granted, this only 'works' to the extent that it ever has because at least the Muslims know that Christians do not believe that Christ's death means that God the Father died, and are thereby meaning to trap us in some kind of logical puzzle; if we ever had believed that, then there'd be no reason to ask that question), and despite the fact that obviously as non-Mormons, we cannot be expected to read the Bible as they do.

This is one of those things, like everything else, where Mormon attempts to educate Christians regarding Mormon beliefs would be made much easier if Mormons would just admit that their religion is not meant to be a type of Christianity in the first place, but a replacement religion. Then they could believe in all kinds of wacky stuff about God and the Bible (again, like their spiritual forefathers the Muslims do) and it wouldn't matter, because the Christian God and the Holy Bible are not even what they're trying to follow. They've got their own thing that bears some relation to both or invokes both when advantageous to them, but is ultimately its own distinct thing.

Alas, there are too many converts to be made by claiming otherwise.
Spot on! :oldthumbsup:
 
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Peter1000

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Isaiah chapter 45 verse 5
I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,
First we need to find out which God said that.
1) Was is Elohim (El)/God the Father
2) Was it Yahweh/Jehovah/Jesus/ God the Son
3) Was it the HS/Holy Ghost/ God the HS

Which one said it?
 
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HeLeadethMe

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Does it bother you that you worship an immaterial substances which the Bible never speaks of?

We do have a different concept of just what an angel is.

In Rev 22 John tries to worship an angel;
8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Angels are not some kind of other being, Cherubims are another kind of heavenly being but angels are prophets who return as messengers of God. Or just un-resurrected spirits

"But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?" Heb 1

Your grandmother could be your guardian angel.

* Satan didn't lie about us becoming like gods

"...and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.....And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.."

God made an opening statement 'Let us make an in our image and after our likeness..." he didn't say part way or just sort of. In Rev 3 " To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

Satan most certainly did lie, wow, scripture says he is a liar and the truth is not in him.......eating his words caused Adam and Eve to fall rather than become like angels didn't it.........they only became "gods" in their own mind, deceived and whimpering, hiding in the bushes......and they died like mere men. Do not go beyond what is written and add to God's word.......HIS meaning, HIS intent. It's too precious to tamper with.........touch the holy ark of God with your bare hands of flesh, and expect it to lead to death. Antichrist spirit shall obtain the kingdom peaceably with FLATTERIES.......it appeals to our pride, knowledge, vanity. There is a very fine line between flesh and spirit, cross it and you're in the death zone. So dont dare to make too much of being like the angels.........what matters is how we live in this life, the gospel, and most are not even going to make it to be like the angels.....they are on the broad way to perdition. The word gods just means divine being, spiritual being (angel in other words)......it does not mean we will be Gods with a capital G. An image and likeness is just a REFLECTION of an original......we are to reflect HIS glory, HIS nature, HIS spirit.....it is not of our own and we will never be Gods in our own right. That is so blasphemous, can't even stand to listen to it. All glory is to God alone and any crowns He is so gracious to give us undeserving wretches who only do our reasonable service and even that we do by HIS help, will be laid at His feet. I think I have nothing more to say.........other than wake up and come out of her, you are badly deceived and your church is leading you astray.
 
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Peter1000

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Jesus died and rose again. He was fully God and fully man. The Father was not man and never died.
If God the Father and God the son and God the HS are 1 God, then God the
Father died on the cross with God the Son. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. If they are 1, God died. You can read about it in the bible.
 
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dzheremi

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You need to be careful what you say. John 5:19 & 30 was said by Jesus himself. Is Jesus your God?
If he is then by his own admission, he can only do what he sees his Father do.
AND
He also admits he can do nothing of himself.

Of course, Peter. As always, we can both read.

Do you still want to claim Jesus as your God?

Why would I not? What I am disagreeing with is the Mormon interpretation of what verses like the above mean, not with the reality that they were said by Christ, Who is God.

Since Jesus did many wonderful works and miracles.
Since Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead.
Since Jesus allowed himself to be crusified to fulfill his mission.
Since Jesus died on the cross.
Since Jesus raised himself from the dead, with a body of flesh and bone and spirit.
We know his Father and God did the same things. It is the only logical conclusion of John 5:19.

It's not logical, though, because it's so absurdly literally-taken as to make a farce and pantomime of the Gospel.

If we are going take the Mormon understanding as what is self-evidently true, then it stands to reason that all the things that Jesus did were earlier done by the Father. So, for instance, when the risen Jesus instructed St. Thomas to place his fingers into His side (John 20:24-29), this must've been something that God the Father had earlier done with some kind of 'other-earth' St. Thomas after God the Father's earlier crucifixion, death, and resurrection, right?

Or when Christ chased the money-changers out of the temple (Matthew 21:12-17), this is following what He had seen the Father do at some earlier point. So I guess then God the Father also went to Bethany -- a real, existing physical location on this world -- but to the Bethany on His other, earlier-existing 'other earth', right? They just happened to both have towns named Bethany in which to lodge after performing the same act, presumably for the same reason, etc.?

Etc., etc., etc.

But such a scheme is contradicted by your fellow Mormon Jane_Doe who has already clarified that it is not by imitation that we are to understand the relation of the acts of the Father and the Son (see post #14 on page one of this thread).

So who is right: Jane, or you and Ironhold? Presumably you all have Bibles out of which to argue, even if the resulting theology is not consistent with itself.

God the Father is our Father and God too. The only God with which we have to do, though there be gods and lords many, we only have to do with God the Father (1 Corinthians 8:5), who happens to be the Father and God of Jesus Christ too. (John 20:17)

Okay.

We too, are aware that there are other gods and lords, but that is as far as it goes. Our focus and devotion must be on our God, who is God the Father and we worship Him only, when He tells us to worship His son, we do that also.

Argued like a true Nestorian. It is recorded that the said similar things regarding Christ:

And we refuse to say of Christ, "For the sake of Him that wore I reverence that which is worn, for the sake of the Invisible I worship the seen." It is besides an awful thing to say, "He that is assumed shares the Name of God with Him That assumed him." For he that says thus severs again into two christs, and puts man apart by himself and God likewise: for he denies manifestly the Union, whereby not as one in another is any co-worshipped nor co-named God, but One Christ Jesus is conceived of, the Only Begotten Son, worshipped with one worship together with His own flesh. But we confess that the Son begotten of God the Father and Only-Begotten God Himself, albeit Impassible in His own Nature, hath suffered in the flesh [1 Peter 4:1] for us according to the Scriptures, and was in His crucified body making His own in an Impassible manner the Sufferings of His own Flesh. And by the grace of God He tasted death [Heb. 2:9] even for every one, albeit by Nature Life and Himself the Resurrection. [John 11:25] For in order that, with Ineffable Might having trodden down death in His own flesh first, He might become the Firstborn of the Dead [Col. 1:18] and Firstfruits of them that slept [1 Cor. 15:20], and might make a way to the nature of man for a return to incorruption, by the grace of God, as we said just now, He tasted death for every man, and lived again after three days having spoiled Hades; so that even though the Resurrection of the Dead [1 Cor. 15:21] be said to be through man, yet we do conceive of the Word of God made Man and that through Him has the Might of Death been undone and He shall come in His time as one Son and Lord in the glory of the Father to judge the world in righteousness [Acts 17:31], as it is written.

-- HH St. Cyril of Alexandria, Third Letter to Nestorius (full thing here)

Any other gods, we give it little thought

Do you? Because it seems like your prophet gave such things quite a bit of thought, and fashioned a resulting theology that openly embraces the existence many, many gods.

because El is who we worship

Alright, then; have fun worshiping the supreme God of the Canaanites! :wave:

the same El that Jesus worships, the same El that Jesus looks to as an example, the same El that Jesus cried out to while he was on the cross.

Well that's odd...Jesus Christ, Whom I worship with His good Father and the Holy Spirit, called God our Father! "Abun d'bashmayo, nethqadosh ishmokh, tihe malkuthokh, nehwe sebyonokh..."


Maybe my ears and eyes are a little rusty, but I don't hear or see "El" in there where you'd expect it to be if Jesus Christ also prayed to the Canaanite deity you love so much.

(And, no, I don't think that this is attributable to evolutions characteristic of Syriac that would've been absent from Jesus' own native Aramaic.)

Who do you worship?

The Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit -- the One God.
 
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Peter1000

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Of course, Peter. As always, we can both read.

Well then, you read that Jesus said, he can do nothing of himself, and he only does those things that he sees the Father do. Is that a weak God to you?

That's why I asked if Jesus was still your God, because your comments were that the Mormon god is a weak god, based on that scripture. The Mormon Jesus is the one that said John 5:19 and 30. We believe the bible, so we believe what the bible says.
 
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Peter1000

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Question loaded with blasphemy

Your completely ignoring everything in my reply. You should address it.

To answer your own questions, you should study the Trinity. I dont know why it isnt clear to people that mormonism is so backwards from Biblical Christianity that its like night and day, its astounding.

There are no other actual gods in the OT or the universe. If there were, why would God say that He alone is God Isaiah 45:5, that there was no God formed before Him Isaiah 43:10, and that He doesn't even KNOW of any other gods Isaiah 44:8?
Deut. 4:35, "To you it was shown that you might know that the Lord, He is God; there is no other besides Him." 1 Sam. 2:2, "There is no one holy like the Lord, Indeed, there is no one besides Thee, Nor is there any rock like our God."

The Bible acknowledges those that are CALLED gods 1 Cor 8:5 but they are not, by nature, gods at all Gal 4:8.

Capital G and little g, know the difference and check out the Trinity.
Who was Jesus standing next to in Acts 7:56??? If Jesus was standing next to someone, would that make 2 separate and distinct Persons??? Stephen thought so and apparently Luke thought it was important enough to say it twice in verses 55 & 56.

Who was Jesus standing next to in Acts 7:56?? How many Persons did Stephen see?
 
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dzheremi

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Well then, you read that Jesus said, he can do nothing of himself, and he only does those things that he sees the Father do. Is that a weak God to you?

No, because what that means is not what you take it to mean. Your eisegesis is the Mormon, not the Christian, understanding of the verse you are quoting. The Christian understanding is not so simplistic as to say "Jesus said that He only does what the Father does, so they must've done all the exact same things, just at different times." (In fact, that specific idea is refuted centuries before Mormonism ever existed; see below.) Rather, our fathers understood this passage as an affirmation and manifestation of their shared nature.

"Let them weigh then how great a crowd of blasphemies is heaped up by them, from their choosing so to think, and let them think truly of the Son as it is written. For neither by contemplation of what is performed by the Father, nor yet by having Him as antecedent to Himself in actions, is the Son a Doer or Wonder-worker, and by reason hereof God: but because a certain law of Nature carries Him to the Exact Likeness of Him who begat Him, even though it shine forth and is manifested through the unceasing likeness of Their Works. But setting before us again, if you please, the verse, and testing it with more diligent scrutiny, let us consider accurately, what is the force of the words and let us now see how we must think with piety. Therefore,

Verily verily I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of Himself but what He seeth the Father do: for what things soever He doeth, these doeth also the Son likewise.

Thou seest how through the exact likeness too in the works, He sheweth Himself like in all things to the Father, that thereby He may be shewn to be Heir of His Essence also. For in that He must of necessity and incontrovertibly be conceived of as being God by Nature, Who hath Equal working with God the Father, the Saviour says thus. But let no one be offended, when He says economical, that He can do nothing of Himself but what He seeth the Father do. For in that He was now arrayed in the form of the servant and made Man by being united to flesh, He did not make His discourse free, nor altogether let loose unto God-befitting boldness, but used rather at times by an economy such discourse as befits alike God and Man. For He was really both in the same."

-- HH St. Cyril of Alexandria, Commentary on John, book II chapter 6 (emphasis added)

That's why I asked if Jesus was still your God, because your comments were that the Mormon god is a weak god, based on that scripture.

The Mormon god is a weak god, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the God of holy scripture but that Mormons have convinced themselves that he does, and are in this thread trying to convince us that he does, too.

The Mormon Jesus is the one that said John 5:19 and 30.

Not even slightly.

We believe the bible, so we believe what the bible says.

You believe in the theology or theologies of Joseph Smith and the other leaders of your non-Christian replacement religion, which are not at all in keeping with what the Bible says.
 
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Peter1000

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It doesn't bother you that all these things read like pages out of new age...? Or that it's the same old lie in the Garden, ye shall be as gods...? Wow, it's showing up everywhere now, we could say it's coming out of the closet. Whereas sons of god, and gods is simply a reference to angels......and where Jesus says we shall be like the angels too.......but woe to us if we take it any further than that. Doesn't the flesh and ego love it though. Better not forget the rest of the passage that says ye shall be gods, yet ye shall die like mere men......the Lord mocking the lies of the enemy.
If the sons of God is a reference to angels, are angels the sons of God?

What is your reference to ye shall be gods, yet ye shall die like mere men??
 
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Super14LDS

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Isaiah chapter 45 verse 5
I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,

First we need to find out which God said that.
1) Was is Elohim (El)/God the Father
2) Was it Yahweh/Jehovah/Jesus/ God the Son
3) Was it the HS/Holy Ghost/ God the HS

Which one said it?

Good question :)

Lord
See Christ; Christ, names of; Jehovah.

Here's the link --> Lord

Any disagreement?

 
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GingerBeer

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If what JS says is true, you do not need to fear him, you need to fear Jesus Christ.
What he wrote was fiction in the style of the King James Bible. There is no need to obey him.
 
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withwonderingawe

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Question loaded with blasphemy

Your completely ignoring everything in my reply. You should address it.

To answer your own questions, you should study the Trinity. I dont know why it isnt clear to people that mormonism is so backwards from Biblical Christianity that its like night and day, its astounding.

There are no other actual gods in the OT or the universe. If there were, why would God say that He alone is God Isaiah 45:5, that there was no God formed before Him Isaiah 43:10, and that He doesn't even KNOW of any other gods Isaiah 44:8?
Deut. 4:35, "To you it was shown that you might know that the Lord, He is God; there is no other besides Him." 1 Sam. 2:2, "There is no one holy like the Lord, Indeed, there is no one besides Thee, Nor is there any rock like our God."

The Bible acknowledges those that are CALLED gods 1 Cor 8:5 but they are not, by nature, gods at all Gal 4:8.

Capital G and little g, know the difference and check out the Trinity.

So let’s go through each passage you referenced and I’ll add in some insight from Strong’s. It has a lot to do with the word Elohim which is plural but reads singularly if there is a single noun like ’he’. The placing of the big and little G is simply at the discretion of the translators, these accident languages had no punctuation.

“There are no other actual gods in the OT or the universe. If there were, why would God say that He alone is God Isaiah 45:5, ….”

The Lord says;
“I am the Lord, and there is none else, there are no gods beside me:
….. I am the Lord, and there is none else. ….. I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.”

So no other gods right but wait verse 18 says

“For thus saith the Lord/Yahweh that created the heavens; God/Elohim himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord/Yahweh; and there is none else.”

What does it say in Heb 1
“God, …..Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds”

Yahweh/Jesus created the world but under the direction of the Father.

*that there was no God formed before Him Isaiah 43:10,

Was God formed?

“Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.”

Strong’s says the word formed means in the sense of being pre-ordained. Peter taught us in 1 Peter 1

“19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

So he was the only one pre-ordained to be our Savior. But there is more. Ps 89 speaks of this;

6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the Lord? who among the sons of the El can be likened unto the Lord?
7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the Holy Ones, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.

And then Heb 1
5 For unto which of the angels/other sons of God said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Non of the angels or other spirits well be begotten on earth as Yahweh was.

6 And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world,

By first begotten he’s saying first begotten in the spirit. Yahweh/ Jesus was the first begotten in the spirit and the only begotten in the flesh.

“ …he saith, And let all the angels/sons of God worship him.
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.”

God the Father anoints his eldest Son God and commands the rest to worship him.

There is non else he alone is Savior.

He says at the end of the chapter;
“25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.
26 Put me in remembrance: let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified.

If there is no other Gods then to whom is Yahweh pleading?

*and that He doesn't even KNOW of any other gods Isaiah 44:8?

So let’s look at the whole thought, it to is referring to this ancient believe of the gods.

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

The important word here is “the ancient/owlam people”. Ancient is the same word used in Ps 90 ‘everlasting’ . Yahweh appointed the everlasting people?

Yahweh is Lord of Host, God of gods, Lord of lords.

Going back to Isa 45 he says;
“I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.”

Did you know he never says ‘all their host have I created‘, that’s because it was El who created all the host of heaven and earth before they were in the earth. But he does command them and he is their God, there is non else.

I’ll skip to 1 Sam. 2:2, "There is no one holy like the Lord, Indeed, there is no one besides Thee, Nor is there any rock like our God."

And quote 2 Sam 22

“ The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;
The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.”
 
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Rescued One

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So let’s go through each passage you referenced and I’ll add in some insight from Strong’s. It has a lot to do with the word Elohim which is plural but reads singularly if there is a single noun like ’he’. The placing of the big and little G is simply at the discretion of the translators, these accident languages had no punctuation.

“There are no other actual gods in the OT or the universe. If there were, why would God say that He alone is God Isaiah 45:5, ….”

The Lord says;
“I am the Lord, and there is none else, there are no gods beside me:
….. I am the Lord, and there is none else. ….. I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.”

So no other gods right but wait verse 18 says

“For thus saith the Lord/Yahweh that created the heavens; God/Elohim himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord/Yahweh; and there is none else.”

What does it say in Heb 1
“God, …..Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds”

Yahweh/Jesus created the world but under the direction of the Father.

*that there was no God formed before Him Isaiah 43:10,

Was God formed?

“Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.”

Strong’s says the word formed means in the sense of being pre-ordained. Peter taught us in 1 Peter 1

“19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

So he was the only one pre-ordained to be our Savior. But there is more. Ps 89 speaks of this;

6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the Lord? who among the sons of the El can be likened unto the Lord?
7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the Holy Ones, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.

And then Heb 1
5 For unto which of the angels/other sons of God said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Non of the angels or other spirits well be begotten on earth as Yahweh was.

6 And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world,

By first begotten he’s saying first begotten in the spirit. Yahweh/ Jesus was the first begotten in the spirit and the only begotten in the flesh.

“ …he saith, And let all the angels/sons of God worship him.
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.”

God the Father anoints his eldest Son God and commands the rest to worship him.

There is non else he alone is Savior.

He says at the end of the chapter;
“25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.
26 Put me in remembrance: let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified.

If there is no other Gods then to whom is Yahweh pleading?

*and that He doesn't even KNOW of any other gods Isaiah 44:8?

So let’s look at the whole thought, it to is referring to this ancient believe of the gods.

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

The important word here is “the ancient/owlam people”. Ancient is the same word used in Ps 90 ‘everlasting’ . Yahweh appointed the everlasting people?

Yahweh is Lord of Host, God of gods, Lord of lords.

Going back to Isa 45 he says;
“I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.”

Did you know he never says ‘all their host have I created‘, that’s because it was El who created all the host of heaven and earth before they were in the earth. But he does command them and he is their God, there is non else.

I’ll skip to 1 Sam. 2:2, "There is no one holy like the Lord, Indeed, there is no one besides Thee, Nor is there any rock like our God."

And quote 2 Sam 22

“ The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;
The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.”


IOW, there is only ONE GOD, not two, not three, not fifteen!
 
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Ironhold

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Im not surprised he would say that. Given that he also believed people lived on the moon and sun and were 10 feet tall and dressed like quakers. He was great at fabricating falsehoods.

Actually?

Trying to find the link I had, but apparently at the time Joseph allegedly said that a number of newspapers had fallen for a hoax which said... exactly what the critics accused JS of saying. If it's true he said that, then he could well have been simply repeating what he'd read in a recent newspaper.
 
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Ironhold

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See what joseph smith taught, and decide for yourself if he is a credible prophet for God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.


Actually, this was not banned.

Rather, the National Council of Christians & Jews *and* the Anti-Defamation League of B'Nai B'Rith both panned the movie it was part of as being "hate" material that was too full of lies and inaccuracies to bother with.

I saved a response I made to the video about a decade or so back if you'd like me to copy & paste it here. Basically though, everything you see in there is false to at least some degree, and does not reflect actual church teaching and practice.
 
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